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  1. #601
    Scarab Lord
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    Beastlord on mythic really isn't an issue if you're doing things correctly. Most deaths I had and our other tank had was just botched swapping, meaning that debuffs of the numerous that are present got too high. The adds entering at a bad angle and hitting you in the back is also a great way to die really quickly. Keep in mind when the wolf howls he buffs both the boss and himself with a pretty nasty frenzy, failure to remove it promptly will result in death. I'd just pop rune tap when it howled just in case tranq/shiv was late.

  2. #602
    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
    Beastlord on mythic really isn't an issue if you're doing things correctly.
    Maybe not in ilvl 684 with a BM tank who can drop down a statue, but for people who doesn't have the gear level for it he is actually a challenge. Mechanically he is very simple, yes, but do not underestimate the actual damage you take if you lack the ilvl for it, or a BM Monk to make the adds a faceroll mechanic.

  3. #603
    You chain stun adds on Beastlord (they should die before they expire, but if they don't, they won't be up for long because I haven't yet seen a raid that doesn't LOVE to pad on adds). This is probably the most important thing: get stuns after they reach you/the boss. Better then any external you could get. Esp important for Wolf phase because they get a buff from him.

    Never get more then 2 stacks of bleed (if you did, you screwed something up; run AWAY if you aren't tanking and he leaps), but you can BoP them if you are worried or get extras (maybe going into Faultline it's worth BoPing them off).

    If you have 4p use it for adds. Keep in mind you actually have to HAVE a shield because it won't magically give you one.

    AMS works very well on Rylak. Rylak also generally hits the hardest so be careful. This is probably the worst phase.

    Don't waste externals if the other tank is going to taunt soon.

    Get your raid to instantly dispel wolf/boss enrage, because that is the easiest way to have a tank death.

    Keep in mind that Faultline doesn't split damage the entire phase (it would seem that way from the description, but it doesn't actually seem to happen). So if you aren't tanking him you actually don't take much damage at all. You can take advantage by taunting back and forth based on who has some cds, although I guess that might not be practical for you?

    ILvl actually doesn't matter as much as you think on that fight; a lot of the damage is bleeds/magical which aren't affected by pretty much anything. Mastery helps, but I did the fight with only about 500 mastery on gear (obviously 550 more from buff) the first time, so it's definitely possible, and was wearing DPS trinkets.

    I don't see why you would need a BRM tank for picking up the adds, but I guess it would make it simpler. I certainly didn't feel like it would have helped me much however.
    I write guides and have a youtube channel where I make kill videos at: https://www.youtube.com/user/EssEmmI

    Feel free to ask me for help regarding to Blood DK play

  4. #604
    I'm tanking in a pretty casual raid guild, just clearing HC BRF at the moment. Recently, when progressing on Kromog, I died a few times during tanking. As I checked the logs, it turns out the other tank (a BRM Monk) didn't stand close enough and I ate a few Fists of Stones alone. Since healing is a little tight (we have no paladins and no resto druids, but 2 shamans and a disc priest), this spiked me pretty badly (~1,9 million damage over 25 seconds) and eventually killed me (despite death striking 3 times in the last 10 seconds before I died (maybe I might have been able to squeeze in one more, but I think I fucked up).

    However, after the raid the age old debate about my stat weights came up. "Why aren't you using a stamina flask?", "Why aren't you gearing for versatility, it must be super good for DKs, giving your healing ability?", "Why aren't you gearing for more Multistrike, wouldn't your HP go through the roof because of Shadow of Death?" etc.

    So, how do I explain to these guys why using stuff like Pillar of the Earth or Stamina Flasks is generally a bad idea and how do I tell my "tank officer" (the BRM Monk) that he fucked up without having to quote Troxism's 9000+ words Blood DK bible? Or should I just do my guild a favor and let them tell me what to do in order to avoid drama (even if it is the wrong decision and especially given the fact that NONE of them ever tanked as a DK and that they don't have a single clue about Blood DKs in general ("What do you mean, your Blood Shield can't be up all the time?!")?

  5. #605
    Quote Originally Posted by Isadora View Post
    So, how do I explain to these guys why using stuff like Pillar of the Earth or Stamina Flasks is generally a bad idea and how do I tell my "tank officer" (the BRM Monk) that he fucked up without having to quote Troxism's 9000+ words Blood DK bible? Or should I just do my guild a favor and let them tell me what to do in order to avoid drama (even if it is the wrong decision and especially given the fact that NONE of them ever tanked as a DK and that they don't have a single clue about Blood DKs in general ("What do you mean, your Blood Shield can't be up all the time?!")?
    What's so complicated about it? You just tell them what happened, and that stamina doesn't actually mitigate damage so is doesn't do a lot unless you get oneshot from unavoidable damage that you can't spare cooldowns for.

    If they don't know how blood DK mechanics work then you either explain them to them, or tell them that they either need to just trust you or go read something like Troxism's bible here.
    "Quack, quack, Mr. Bond."

  6. #606
    Quote Originally Posted by Isadora View Post
    I'm tanking in a pretty casual raid guild, just clearing HC BRF at the moment. Recently, when progressing on Kromog, I died a few times during tanking. As I checked the logs, it turns out the other tank (a BRM Monk) didn't stand close enough and I ate a few Fists of Stones alone. Since healing is a little tight (we have no paladins and no resto druids, but 2 shamans and a disc priest), this spiked me pretty badly (~1,9 million damage over 25 seconds) and eventually killed me (despite death striking 3 times in the last 10 seconds before I died (maybe I might have been able to squeeze in one more, but I think I fucked up).

    However, after the raid the age old debate about my stat weights came up. "Why aren't you using a stamina flask?", "Why aren't you gearing for versatility, it must be super good for DKs, giving your healing ability?", "Why aren't you gearing for more Multistrike, wouldn't your HP go through the roof because of Shadow of Death?" etc.

    So, how do I explain to these guys why using stuff like Pillar of the Earth or Stamina Flasks is generally a bad idea and how do I tell my "tank officer" (the BRM Monk) that he fucked up without having to quote Troxism's 9000+ words Blood DK bible? Or should I just do my guild a favor and let them tell me what to do in order to avoid drama (even if it is the wrong decision and especially given the fact that NONE of them ever tanked as a DK and that they don't have a single clue about Blood DKs in general ("What do you mean, your Blood Shield can't be up all the time?!")?
    Honestly I have had to walk away from idiots many times in my playtime (including sometimes in this thread, as some people just can't be convinced no matter what logic you use that they are just wrong). Now your raid members might actually mean well and be trying to help, or they could be like a lot of WoW players; they just want to be right and bash on someone else and point fingers rather then fix their own mistakes (this is why most people suck at this game; they never focus on themselves and just blame others for every problem rather then fixing things on their end).

    However you can't just walk away from your own guild (unless you go to another guild, which has it's own problems obviously), so that isn't really much of a solution in this case.

    I mean I could answer the specific questions you asked. You could have me speak to them (but that would only accomplish anything if they care to listen, which I don't know if they do). What I would not do is let people force me to play incorrectly because of their ignorance. Personally I would rather quit that guild then ever do anything like that, but to be honest I've never been in a position where I've had to 'explain' myself so it's hard for me to say (I haven't really ever had anyone criticize my overall playstyle or gearing that has actually played with me, only people that snipe at me are those who don't play with me and have a bone to pick because I tell them they are wrong).

    The other side of the coin is that you might still be doing things wrong (even if your guild is wrong, doesn't always mean you are 100% right either; they aren't two sides of the same coin); the question is how wrong and what the actual issues are. Generally not splitting fists shouldn't instantly kill you, and neither should spotty healing (although the combination can). However I don't have nearly enough information from this post to say much on this topic, however I just mention it because I think it's easy to fall into the trap of 'im right and everyone else is wrong so I'll never change anything I do', which most players in this game fall into. If there was ONE thing I would want to make clear to every player of this game is that you can ALWAYS get better and you should never grow complacent and assume you know everything. That bit of advice is easily worth more then my entire guide; it's how I gathered all the knowledge in the guide.

    For the sake of saying something actually useful rather then spouting random shit.

    My post on page 24 pretty much explains why stamina/stamina trinkets suck in 99.9% of cases. I haven't seen any of those 0.1% cases this tier yet, and I doubt they will ever come up (as I don't even use tanking gear atm, and no my armoury isn't the gear I actually use).

    I don't even have any words for why someone would assume Vers > other stats for Blood. That is just a basic math thing; Vers CANNOT beat Mastery for Blood for survival ATM with the way things are set up (at least not in any reachable numbers of each stat).

    Gearing MS for SoD is retarded because you gain very little HP. Mastery would again do more for that (but honestly I have about 500 mastery unbuffed in my real gear and it's fine for Mythic progression, so yeah....).

    But yeah if you think I won't be wasting my time (ie if you think they might actually listen to logic on the subject) I can talk to them about it. PM me or something if you want to pursue that option.
    Last edited by Troxism; 2015-02-22 at 10:21 AM.
    I write guides and have a youtube channel where I make kill videos at: https://www.youtube.com/user/EssEmmI

    Feel free to ask me for help regarding to Blood DK play

  7. #607
    I really appreciate the answers, thank you so much!

    Now I definitely think that I did kinda mess up some parts of that fight, I might have been too greedy with cooldowns, I might have grown too confident in my mitigation or slacked on the Death Strike timing. I'll definitely try to keep an eye out for that and see where I went wrong.

    The reason I asked in the first place was to make sure that I'm not missing something. I have read your guide countless times and I really appreciate all the work you put into it, but being a relatively new tank (about 7 months now) I sometimes doubt myself and think I might have overlooked something.

    But, given your explanation on trinkets and given the fact that none of them really know what DKs actually do while they tank, I think I can explain to them why going for vers/multi and gulping stamina flasks like no tomorrow isn't the hail mary they might be looking for (besides the fact that I really only died twice in about 13 tries and I didn't even consider this as much of a problem).

    TL/DR: Thank you gentlemen, I'll be talking to my guild again and maybe prepare an explanation based on the elaborations in this thread/guide!

  8. #608
    I also want to thank everyone for their tips on Mythic Beastlord. Now looking back I think the adds were staying up too long and not stunned the whole time. I also think the wolf buff wasn't always being dispelled immediately. It makes me feel better that I wasn't just dying to the boss for no reason. Going at him again tonight and hopefully we can get him down. Thanks!

  9. #609

  10. #610
    Scarab Lord
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kapaya View Post
    Maybe not in ilvl 684 with a BM tank who can drop down a statue, but for people who doesn't have the gear level for it he is actually a challenge. Mechanically he is very simple, yes, but do not underestimate the actual damage you take if you lack the ilvl for it, or a BM Monk to make the adds a faceroll mechanic.
    Note that my post is just about tanking the encounter, not the encounter as a whole. I'd argue that the encounter is harder than both Oregorger and Hans/Franz (haven't tried Flamebender yet).

    Gear on tanks really doesn't make a big difference, and I easily could have done it with lower iLvL or with a different co-tank. The monk statue is nice, but only for making sure they don't run off and molest other people in the raid. Poorly placed monk statues are actually annoying, and we had numerous of them on our first kill. They are annoying because if it produces a moderate amount of threat, and depending on how far away they are it's rather annoying to kill them quickly. Simply put if the adds are sitting there beating on the statue they are also getting more damage, as they passively increase damage over time.

    If you don't have a BrM it's as simple as having two hunters alternating MD on one of the tanks. If they run off elsewhere that's a problem with your tanks and/or DPS not waiting for the adds to get on the melee/tank cluster. We had to correct issues like this because this is an encounter which sort of encourages padding (as everything needs to die) and people will go full retard seeing a pack of 8 (or however many) adds coming out every 20-25 seconds.

    All of that is moot though because if the adds aren't hitting you from the back they really don't pose much threat. Most raids are going to have a few AoE stuns, and about 8 seconds worth of stuns (or less) is going to mean dead adds.

    We had 3 paladins and I'd imagine most groups are probably going to average 2. If you for whatever reason get 3 stacks of the bleed just BoP it off/cancel aura. This rarely happened with the tanks, but was useful for overzealous retarded melee who didn't run away.

  11. #611
    Deleted
    Guys any advice for using Plague Leech (literally using it) as for some reason i refuse to learn. It's the only skill that i somehow refuse to use during fight, doesn't matter to what button i bind it or if i have big flashy USE PLAGUE LEECH covering half of screen. I tried very hard really... This one button just goes out of my head.

  12. #612
    I mean if you have no runes you basically just use it.

    Like long as you have 2 completely depleted runes and the others are still charging just use it and outbreak again and go on your way. Its that simple.

  13. #613
    Quote Originally Posted by tapczan100 View Post
    Guys any advice for using Plague Leech (literally using it) as for some reason i refuse to learn. It's the only skill that i somehow refuse to use during fight, doesn't matter to what button i bind it or if i have big flashy USE PLAGUE LEECH covering half of screen. I tried very hard really... This one button just goes out of my head.
    Honestly don't really have any clever ideas to help you there. Personally I am always so eager to spend more GCDs I can't resist using it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    *******UPDATE Feb 24rth***********

    -Edited NP section since they partially reverted the buff. Grats Blizz, now instead of being incredibly niche and NEARLY useless, it's now back to being COMPLETELY useless again. All because you refuse to split talents by spec except to nerf them.

    -Removed recommendation for NP on some fights (they reduced the buff so it still sucks).

    -Added links to archived Blood tap articles, still have plans to actually put them in, but it's a stopgap measure.

    -Updated BiS gear to mention an alternative offpiece.

    -Added small note on 2p + 4p usage

    -Changed guide to say 6.1 (WTB admin to change the tread title, since I don't think I can).


    Still have more stuff I want to add, but I really don't have time in the middle of progression.
    I write guides and have a youtube channel where I make kill videos at: https://www.youtube.com/user/EssEmmI

    Feel free to ask me for help regarding to Blood DK play

  14. #614
    Sup DK brothers monk tank here looking to get some help from the pro DKs for my Co-Tank. I don't know much about DK tanking so would love someone tips to help him improve.

    Armory
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...3%B8dir/simple
    Logs
    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done
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  15. #615
    Quote Originally Posted by Skorkin View Post
    Sup DK brothers monk tank here looking to get some help from the pro DKs for my Co-Tank. I don't know much about DK tanking so would love someone tips to help him improve.

    Armory
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...3%B8dir/simple
    Logs
    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done
    Straight up doesn't do the rotation right. Resource caps all the time. Has autoattack as his highest damage on single target fights (really?), so he isn't spending his runes either. Low SR usage, low Defile usage, INSANELY low Death Strike usage (and he isn't even Blood Boiling instead, so yeah). Didn't really look at much else, but honestly I can promise you that is 90% of the issue, like with most Blood DKs. Always makes me laugh when I hear the rotation is 'easy' when I see so many people screw it up so badly.

    I'd look at more, but I don't really have time, and honestly it just doesn't matter; this is by far the main issue and if this is solved performance will drastically increase in both DPS and mitigation.

    Bonus: Enchants multistrike (and gets gear with it) but doesn't do the rotation right/resource caps (so what the hell is the point then of getting MS; it's for DPS/resource gen, and to make use of those you need a tight rotation). Has a stamina trinket (seriously?).

    Sorry for the lamebrained response, but I am tired and just don't care right now (due to other things going on).
    Last edited by Troxism; 2015-02-24 at 11:48 AM.
    I write guides and have a youtube channel where I make kill videos at: https://www.youtube.com/user/EssEmmI

    Feel free to ask me for help regarding to Blood DK play

  16. #616
    Over 6 minutes you should have 40 death strikes available just from runes refreshing. That's not even adding in the additional Death Strike every 30 sec as you Leech off a set, nor the Blood Tap runes.

    While he could've been spending runes on BB instead to stack Scent of Blood to get more Vampiric Blood CDs, he's only used 4 during the encounter. It's only a 1 minute cooldown, each BB reduces CD by 5 sec after you DS, so he should've had more than 4 over the course of the fight.
    Last edited by Drunkenvalley; 2015-02-24 at 12:34 PM.

  17. #617
    Quote Originally Posted by Troxism View Post
    Straight up doesn't do the rotation right. Resource caps all the time. Has autoattack as his highest damage on single target fights (really?), so he isn't spending his runes either. Low SR usage, low Defile usage, INSANELY low Death Strike usage (and he isn't even Blood Boiling instead, so yeah). Didn't really look at much else, but honestly I can promise you that is 90% of the issue, like with most Blood DKs. Always makes me laugh when I hear the rotation is 'easy' when I see so many people screw it up so badly.

    I'd look at more, but I don't really have time, and honestly it just doesn't matter; this is by far the main issue and if this is solved performance will drastically increase in both DPS and mitigation.

    Bonus: Enchants multistrike (and gets gear with it) but doesn't do the rotation right/resource caps (so what the hell is the point then of getting MS; it's for DPS/resource gen, and to make use of those you need a tight rotation). Has a stamina trinket (seriously?).

    Sorry for the lamebrained response, but I am tired and just don't care right now (due to other things going on).
    Thank you for the quick replies I'll get him to look at what you guys are talking about. He seems like a solid tank just he has only been playing dk tank for 1 month and he felt squishy on Blackhand so he was asking me for some help which I know little to nothing about dk tanking in WoD. He has a stam trinket because he doesn't have any other taking trinket I told him that would be his first trinket to replace.

    Over 6 minutes you should have 40 death strikes available just from runes refreshing. That's not even adding in the additional Death Strike every 30 sec as you Leech off a set, nor the Blood Tap runes.

    While he could've been spending runes on BB instead to stack Scent of Blood to get more Vampiric Blood CDs, he's only used 4 during the encounter. It's only a 1 minute cooldown, each BB reduces CD by 5 sec after you DS, so he should've had more than 4 over the course of the fight.
    This is really helpful information about how many DS you should have done in 1 min. I don't know what you referring to in the 2nd bit about is that something to do with the set bonuses if so I think he just got his 2 set with that Blackhand kill?
    Last edited by Skorkin; 2015-02-24 at 09:33 PM.
    GPU: EVGA GeForce GTX 770 4 GB GDDR5 CPU: Intel Core I5 4670K 3.4G Motherboard: ASRock Z97 Pro4 LGA 1150 Intel PSU: Corsair HX 750 Watt
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  18. #618
    Hey Guys! We are currently wiping at our dearest Beastlord and I dont know...I just die.

    Log: Dedicated Casuals (Eredar) Feb 23 2015 - tanked Try 8 to End (sorry I cant post links here)
    Armory: Torry Eredar (again sorry)

    I got no survival problems in Highmaul or Blackhand heroic, but this one is just annoying. Do I some stupid stuff or something like that?

    Help would be really really great!

  19. #619
    Quote Originally Posted by Skorkin View Post
    This is really helpful information about how many DS you should have done in 1 min. I don't know what you referring to in the 2nd bit about is that something to do with the set bonuses if so I think he just got his 2 set with that Blackhand kill?
    • Runes refresh every 9 seconds.
      Every 9 seconds you should get a 9 second window to Death Strike. This should give 40 opportunities to Death Strike.

    • Every 25 seconds he can use Plague Leech.
      Plague Leech consumes his diseases on the target. Using it gives you 2 runes for use. If it's always on cooldown it should be another ~14 Death Strikes.

    • Blood Tap gives an additional rune when used.
      Whenever you spend 15 Runic Power spent you gain a Blood Charge. Blood Tapping when you have 5 charges regenerates a rune, while you can have 12 charges.

    However, Death Strike, Plague Leech and Blood Tap regenerate runes as Death Runes. This means it can be used for any rune-costing ability.

    So you could use this to Blood Boil instead (costing 1 Blood). Blood Boil gives Scent of Blood (increases damage and healing of next Death Strike), which can stack. When you Death Strike the stacks are consumed.

    The 2-piece setbonus gives a 5 second cooldown reduction on Vampiric Blood for each Scent of Blood stack consumed. Vampiric Blood is one of Blood Death Knights' cooldowns, increasing your healthpool and % healing received. It has a 1 minute cooldown and lasts for 10 seconds. Pretty good cooldown, but I strongly suspect it's, err, not exactly optimal to spam Blood Boil for cooldown reduction.

    But your DK comrade doesn't appear to be Blood Boil spamming to get the cooldown reduction. After all, you should have more Vampiric Blood uses then. So I have no idea where the missing Death Strikes went.

  20. #620
    Quote Originally Posted by Drunkenvalley View Post
    The 2-piece setbonus gives a 5 second cooldown reduction on Vampiric Blood for each Scent of Blood stack consumed. Vampiric Blood is one of Blood Death Knights' cooldowns, increasing your healthpool and % healing received. It has a 1 minute cooldown and lasts for 10 seconds. Pretty good cooldown, but I strongly suspect it's, err, not exactly optimal to spam Blood Boil for cooldown reduction.
    The biggest problem with that is that the blood rune you save for Rune Tap gets consumed first. Otherwise I'd totally use some death runes for BB if I don't have to DS for the heal.

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