6.0 PvE Ret Paladin Theorycraft & Discussion

[Fierss]

Sorry if some of this has been addressed. I read the original post, and the first/last few pages of this thread, but didn't have time to go through 110 pages before posting.

To see if I understand priorities properly, and to question a few things (specced HA/FV):

Without AW and while above 35% hp:
At 5HP, burn EDSFV as our top priority. FV if no DS procs.
At 4HP, CS > J > FV4.
At 3HP, CS > J > Exo > FV3.
And according to the chart in the original post, we don't ever use exorcism unless we're at or below 3HP? Is that because Exo's damage is too low and CD too long to worry about wasting a proc? This seems new/surprising to me.

During AW or sub 35%, HoW is top priority if under 5HP, then EDSFV, then FV at any HP, then CS > J > Exo? The chart doesn't address Exo while HoW is available, but I would have thought it would be 2nd in priority for our HP generators during AW/sub35%, only behind HoW, since HoW/FV/x/FV (with EDSFV mixed in) will never have gaps, and Exo is the highest dmg out of Exo/CS/J.

And during AoE, the guide says DS replaces FV at 3+ targets. Why would DS ever replace FV? FV doubles DS's dmg, so even on 3+ targets, FV+DS swapping should always be one FV's worth of damage higher than (unempowered)DSx2, no? (and also perhaps an extra application of Censure?)

[Grognard]

and Exo is the highest dmg out of Exo/CS/J

Incorrect. CS beats Exo because CS produces both mastery and Seal damage, while Exo does neither. Judgement produces Seal damage, but not mastery damage; Exo still does neither. Also note that due to their naturally shorter CD, prioritization of CS and Judgement will produce more damage over the course of an engagement.

Why would DS ever replace FV? FV doubles DS's dmg, so even on 3+ targets, FV+DS swapping should always be one FV's worth of damage higher than (unempowered)DSx2, no? (and also perhaps an extra application of Censure?)

You read wrong.

[*]Once three Targets are present Templar’s Verdict is simply substituted for Divine Storm.

Note: Templar's, not Final Verdict. DS replaces TV at 3+, but should still only replace FV at 5+.

[rahkarn]

Reading comprehension is a bitch. I go back and re-read something months later and realize I've been doing it wrong the whole fucking time. Real thankful for folks like grog/qris. most of the time whatever solsacra says I cannot even comprehend

[Puxpux]

We usually cry about how bad we are. What is your problem now?

Please refrain from attempts to incite other forum users. - Malthanis

I think Its because people wont accept other Rets without Mythic gear doing same or more DPS than you that farmed Mythic bla bla bla
This is the first raid without a tier and bad options for gear and people freaks out.

[Myspeld]

I recently downloaded Weak Aura's 2, I am trying to create to icons that show on screen in combat that show the cool down of Seraphim/Scabbard of Kyanos/Execution Sentence. If someone could create a template for me to use so I could expand further so I could start doing this on my own without help. I can't seem to find any good tutorials.

[Fierss]

Incorrect. CS beats Exo because CS produces both mastery and Seal damage, while Exo does neither. Judgement produces Seal damage, but not mastery damage; Exo still does neither. Also note that due to their naturally shorter CD, prioritization of CS and Judgement will produce more damage over the course of an engagement.

Thanks. The mastery/seal influence is something I'd overlooked. Though my question about Exorcism being such low priority was exclusive to under AW or sub 35%, where the shorter CD on CS and Judgment is effectively irrelevant, due to only needing 1 non-HoW HP generator to fill in every 4 GCDs at most.

Comparing the tooltip damage on Judgment to Exorcism, the SoT damage shouldn't make up the difference. Except that apparently Judgment gains the 25% damage from Sword of Light while Exorcism doesn't - is this intended?

DS replaces TV at 3+, but should still only replace FV at 5+.

Thanks for pointing out that I misread TV as FV - that explains that. But why would DS replace FV at 5+ targets, or ever? Even at 20 targets, wouldn't FV+DSFV be 1 FV's damage more than 2x DS? As long as targets aren't dying before you can use the FV buff on your DS.

[sheaebay]

Guild just started M Twins tonight, only got a few attempts on it before calling it for the night, proper progression on twins will be next week.

For twins, rolling with Sanctified wrath, Lights Hammer and final verdict and only using DS with both buffs is best yes?

no if both twins are stacked you use FV then use DS if you have the FV buff.

Got the below from the first page. Good luck on twins!

Final Verdict AoE

While using the Final Verdict Talent, once two or more targets are present, you will alternate finishers between Final Verdict & Divine Storm. Take note of the availability of the Final Verdict buff before using Divine Storm.

[MBDTF]

Ret was reasonably fine prior to us finding out about this 4 pc, the reason I want it nerfed because at this point it ruins purpose of gearing through mythic.

I can literally spend 100k on BoEs, conquest cap on my alt pally and perform almost as well as my main currently. Hell the way it turns out now I can tell my guild to bench me for the rest of progression except for tectus and Ko'ragh so i get a trinket and weapon and I'll be good to go for BRF. I enjoyed SoO holy gear because it allowed us to never worry about building holy power on the opener and it was just overall quality of life benefit, it worked the same way for seraphim. But this set bonus is just stupid.

[Curulan]

But why would DS replace FV at 5+ targets, or ever? Even at 20 targets, wouldn't FV+DSFV be 1 FV's damage more than 2x DS? As long as targets aren't dying before you can use the FV buff on your DS.

You would still need to spend 3HP (or a DP proc) and 1GCD in order to get that buff. If you have that many targets available, you might as well just use DS.

There's also a mathematical explanation, but I'd have to do it on paper.

[Xs]

I recently downloaded Weak Aura's 2, I am trying to create to icons that show on screen in combat that show the cool down of Seraphim/Scabbard of Kyanos/Execution Sentence. If someone could create a template for me to use so I could expand further so I could start doing this on my own without help. I can't seem to find any good tutorials.

AW /w all 3 states tracked, inside the group the A tracks the cooldown being over, Aur tracks the buff and OnC tracks.. well.., ignore the numbers, I have one for each spec (minus prot now RIP)

dOJNjaGlKK61iPAMiLMnvDBL6MifvNgX3qsYHP0ovYEHDtQ9lq)ePkdtsmoH4zIkdvbnybmCs6GIItHuvhtu6CcIwisSuKISyrvTCkEOcPNQAzsspxQjQqyQuzYKy6exejXvvi6YOUUiBuqkFwrBwHA7cPhluFfPW0eK8DKkJuqQojskJwqnErv6sIQOBjQcxdPOCEf4VsQFlXOeegzHd3che8gVkvxHQdjvhbFJRGRahEEP34XnlyLh0Sk4dO34XnlyLhvRsv4CEvTAfwb5J3SF8Wcrl4uONZrpAoTuj0C4wffIqkARVwmK5KnnCqWn8Ku0UbQm(0usQ4602ziZjBASYI7lwf4Wtnxh7TDJlMeJBSXmC47KxiWbbcUy9SwGdFN8cboiqWnfpdh(o5fcCqGGh7TDdhEt0tpJpmdTzgb1wqGGtuWZqJGbQcbpgoSYchEslgYCYg4WjcVx2nJvKqwjsf8wL9(LDZyLlBKiHccUyiZjBGdVvzVFz3mw5YgjsOWjcVx2nJvKqwjsfCzGkJ3IvsnEsZrzTGBtsbp1Cnr49YUzqbp1CnrhLnndk4Cuwl4JwkELcD6GbgAktd3DWaH4QS3tF84ulLDDyIcJlKnRGNAUUvzVFz3mOGNAUoPjcOabpmtMHfSYvf3xSkWHlwpRf4W3jVqGdce8yVTB4WBIE6z8HzOnZiO2ccEQ56yVTBqb3u8mC47KxiWbbcEQ56wLJbf8wLJHdVj6PNXkhe8uZ1XLD(wbuWn2ygo8DYle4GabcUcPv92bxSXuVXdga3Wtsr7gOY4K4IgNOGNHgbdKjyGC4XLIxPqNguWTkkeHu0wFTyiZjBA4GGthrrcJvUQ4602ziZjBASYcbRQWHB1KTvifnC4JjAshgoCvd3SG3Hnen1HabxmK5KnWH3QS3VSBgRSzJqv5QGteEVSBgRiHSsKk4PMRjcVx2ndk4A7MB4WklEMOSEs0ZGbOHXkHHGNAUMOJYMMbfCokRf8rlfVsHoDWadnLPH7oyGqqnH30hpo1szxhMOW4czZk4PMRBv27x2ndk4PMRtAIak4jnhL1cUnjfi4QMY0WDp0WXKMu0yvbFCrl40sYNnwHu0bdCRUdgieJK(4HzYmSGvUQ4(Ivbo8uZ1XEB3GcUP4z4W3jVqGdceCX6zTah(o5fcCqGGNAUUv5yqb3yJz4W3jVqGdce8yVTB4WBIE6z8HzOnZiO2ccERYXWH3e90ZyLdceCfsR6TdUyJPEJNNQ4gEskA3avgNex04wffIqkARVwmK5KnnCqWJlfVsHonOGN0IHmNSbo8wL9(LDZyLnBeQkxfCIW7LDZyfjKvIubcorbpdncgitYemqvC6iksySYvfxN2odzoztJvw8wSXuVhwiAbFuQSCuHMGGvo4WTAY2kKIgo8wSgboCzGkJRA4MfCvd3SGpnf6GGpMOjDy4WLbQmUQHBwWvnCZc(0uOdceCXqMt2ahECQLYUomrHXfYMvWjcVx2nJvfCzGkJ3IvsnEsZrzTGBtsbp1Cnr49YUzqbp1CnrhLnnJ8X5OSwWhTu8kf60bdm0uMgU7GbcXvzVN(4Tk79l7MXkx2ircfEQ56wL9(LDZGcEQ56KMiGceCfUTsYyfguWvnLPH7EOHJjnPOXQc(4IwWPLKpBScPOdg4wDhmqigj9XdZKzybRCvX9fRcC4PMRJ92UbfCtXZWHVtEHahei4I1ZAbo8DYle4Gabp1CDRYXGcUXgZWHVtEHahei4XEB3WH3e90Z4dZqBMrqTfe8wLJHdVj6PNXkhei4kKw1BhCXgt9gppvXn8Ku0UbQmojUOXTkkeHu0wFTyiZjBA4WklC4IHmNSboCzGkJBtglEsZrzTGBtsbNJYAbp0zRxcJ3P85OSwgA4XK8I)HuHwAXv48tJh7gOY4HovODyOnsAX12n3WHvw8mrz9KONbdqdJvcdbNOJYMMbf8uZ1jnraf8oLphL1YtJhtYlE9OzUR(Um0KdpPjcUQ3oGn4Tk79utPHdcECQLYUomrHXfYMvGGN0IHmNSboiqGG3InM69Wcrl4JsLLJk0eorbpdncgGE6rdgOkEslgYCYg4WBv27x2nJvUSrIeki40ruKWyLRkorhLnndk4602ziZjBASQIhxkELcDAqbce8OyLnuvRaba

Haven't got a Sera or SoK one, but they're both just a case of changing what that button is tracking (might even be cool to add an extra state to Sera for when you have 5HP and its OC, or one for emphasising the count-down to make sure you have the HP stored)

[Monolith of Mazes]

You would still need to spend 3HP (or a DP proc) and 1GCD in order to get that buff. If you have that many targets available, you might as well just use DS.

There's also a mathematical explanation, but I'd have to do it on paper.

At any number of targets above 1, youll want to weave fv and ds. 2+, 5+, whatever. The only time that ds alone is a dps increase is if some of those targets will die before you can fvds. In most situations that might be borderline meter padding since its going to die in a global or two

[Deleted]

i just went to buy another conquest piece and it seems they removed the set bonus from the 620 pieces. kinda lame :P

[ProphetNoata]

i just went to buy another conquest piece and it seems they removed the set bonus from the 620 pieces. kinda lame :P

No they didnt. You were looking at the wrong piece

[marinos]

i just went to buy another conquest piece and it seems they removed the set bonus from the 620 pieces. kinda lame :P

Either you were looking the wrong items as mentioned above or you just had a bug that had happened to me and it wasnt showing the set bonus. If it's the second just relog and it should be fixed. They haven't removed any set bonus from blue gear.

[Deleted]

yea seems like it was just a bug. i was looking at all the pieces and for some reason none showed the set bonus

[decyphier]

Guild just started M Twins tonight, only got a few attempts on it before calling it for the night, proper progression on twins will be next week.

For twins, rolling with Sanctified wrath, Lights Hammer and final verdict and only using DS with both buffs is best yes?

Mfw I never thought about using LH on Twins.

[MBDTF]

Mfw I never thought about using LH on Twins.

The bosses are usually in one place throughout the whole fight unless you're doing some wierd strat

[zOLtAm]

It's getting hotfixed

"Armor Sets
[Currently in testing] PvP 4-piece set bonus for Retribution Paladins now increases damage and healing by 2% per Holy Power spent (down from 3%) for 4 seconds (down from 8 seconds)."

[Duryea]

It's getting hotfixed

"Armor Sets
[Currently in testing] PvP 4-piece set bonus for Retribution Paladins now increases damage and healing by 2% per Holy Power spent (down from 3%) for 4 seconds (down from 8 seconds)."

yea it sucks :/

[Xenocidic]

Here is to hoping that is actually enough. I want my 14k hp back. Why couldn't they just disable it in raids, though?