6.0 PvE Ret Paladin Theorycraft & Discussion

[Jackielope]

Don't feed da trolls mon.

[thegoodrogue]

Most of his posts are pretty much "I am the man, you are all scrubs"

The amount of respect Solsacra and Theck gains are not merely from their abilities, but the fact that they are friendly/helpful players who happen to be at the top of their game.

I never said any of that, consider your post reported for defamation.

I was merely hoping for buffs to ret paladins (since they need it, wizards are destroying melee and rets are at the bottom of melee). I see they have buffed an underused talent (because it stinks), here is to hoping they make seraphim more interactive, just putting up a stat buff isn't fun nor interactive. If I wanted to put up a stat buff I already have one, it's called Blessing of Kings and it has 100% uptime.

Now to buff seal damage, asking for Sword of Light buffs might be a bit much for that mini-game people play.

[Jackielope]

I never said any of that, consider your post reported for defamation.

I was merely hoping for buffs to ret paladins (since they need it, wizards are destroying melee and rets are at the bottom of melee). I see they have buffed an underused talent (because it stinks), here is to hoping they make seraphim more interactive, just putting up a stat buff isn't fun nor interactive. If I wanted to put up a stat buff I already have one, it's called Blessing of Kings and it has 100% uptime.

Now to buff seal damage, asking for Sword of Light buffs might be a bit much for that mini-game people play.

Wizards are destroying melee? That's an interesting take on it, but assuming you mean warriors it's only Fury that's above Ret on the charts at the moment. Arms and Glad are both below Ret. We'll see how the 6.1 changes shake things up though.

I agree a bit with you about Seraphim since it is just a stat buff with little interactivity, but we do have to be wary of what kind of interactivity we want. Depending on one's definition Empowered Seals is the most interactive, but it's also annoying. And also just another stat boost come to think of it.


Hang on a sec. You want seal damage buffed, but you're complaining about lack of interactivity? Aside from EmpS or switching between single target and AoE, seals aren't interactive. And those times are often more of a "well, I need to press this to not suck" kind of thing instead of "I'M AWESOME AND KILLING STUFF!" like more abilities should be.

[thegoodrogue]

Sorry if I did not make myself clear, I am talking about players with ability a bit above your average WoW subscriber. Wizards are clearly above melee, and ret are around the bottom (for melee) on anything sans single target (I guess 1 out of 7 isn't bad Kappa), and even that statistic is assuming they have the currently neutered PvP 4 set.

Anyone can go into LFR and make a spec look good, I can play a 645 elemental shaman and I make it look like elemental shamans are GODS (btw they aren't). I am talking about cutting edge raiding where being 5-10% behind while playing optimally isn't acceptable.

Hang on a sec. You want seal damage buffed, but you're complaining about lack of interactivity? Aside from EmpS or switching between single target and AoE, seals aren't interactive. And those times are often more of a "well, I need to press this to not suck" kind of thing instead of "I'M AWESOME AND KILLING STUFF!" like more abilities should be.

Well, anything else and it's too much for developers to..well... DEVELOP. Buffing seals won't hurt that mini-game they seem to want to hold on to despite their lack of knowledge regarding it.

[Jackielope]

Wizards don't exist as a class in WoW. Do you mean Mages? If so then by the metrics I'm looking at (SimC) 5 melee specs are in the range between the worst Mage spec (Fire right now) and the best (Arcane). Below Fire Mages are 8 melee specs. If it's just talking about Arcane and Frost then those are both destroying melee and pretty much all other specs right now. What metrics are you looking at?

I see your point regarding seals, though one of the things Blizzard has said is they don't want the floor too high compared to the ceiling otherwise the rewards from playing well aren't as relatively good. Perhaps a floor boost would be alright though.

[Floross]

I suppose he just meant casters in general.

P.S. Say hi to Martencar

[thegoodrogue]

Wizards don't exist as a class in WoW. Do you mean Mages? If so then by the metrics I'm looking at (SimC) 5 melee specs are in the range between the worst Mage spec (Fire right now) and the best (Arcane). Below Fire Mages are 8 melee specs. If it's just talking about Arcane and Frost then those are both destroying melee and pretty much all other specs right now. What metrics are you looking at?

I see your point regarding seals, though one of the things Blizzard has said is they don't want the floor too high compared to the ceiling otherwise the rewards from playing well aren't as relatively good. Perhaps a floor boost would be alright though.

I suppose he just meant casters in general.

P.S. Say hi to Martencar

^

Wizards are generally characters that cast spells.

I see your point regarding seals, though one of the things Blizzard has said is they don't want the floor too high compared to the ceiling otherwise the rewards from playing well aren't as relatively good. Perhaps a floor boost would be alright though.

I think they got rid of any kind of skill-cap designing Draenor classes/specs/mechanics, so that point is moot.

[Elkas]

Sorry if I did not make myself clear, I am talking about players with ability a bit above your average WoW subscriber. Wizards are clearly above melee, and ret are around the bottom (for melee) on anything sans single target (I guess 1 out of 7 isn't bad Kappa), and even that statistic is assuming they have the currently neutered PvP 4 set.

Anyone can go into LFR and make a spec look good, I can play a 645 elemental shaman and I make it look like elemental shamans are GODS (btw they aren't). I am talking about cutting edge raiding where being 5-10% behind while playing optimally isn't acceptable.



Well, anything else and it's too much for developers to..well... DEVELOP. Buffing seals won't hurt that mini-game they seem to want to hold on to despite their lack of knowledge regarding it.

I'm sorry but both theorycrafting and uploaded combat logges disagree with your statements. Maybe you're just playing the spec wrong? There are threads on this subforum to help you out. I suggest you pay them a visit.

[Jackielope]

I suppose he just meant casters in general.

P.S. Say hi to Martencar

Casters/ranged do have a skew towards higher DPS right now, yes. Exceptions are BM hunters, two of the Shadow priest talents, and Destro warlocks. We'll see how the 6.1 changes shake things up. Hopefully it'll even things out a bit better.

[cowbear]

Idk if trolling but atm the only thing that makes ret look weak is twins or bracken in comparison with arms warrior and combat rogue (not sure about monks after nerfs) rest bosses looks like we are at least the same imo better, u can put Mythic margok in since war/enha/combat can pad more in adds than ret unless insanly lucky dp procs happens i guess
And single target if u actually manage to get 2;30 kills u cant loose to any other spec at least till someone can prove me wrong here and dont link braken flamethrower bug logs from a hunter @ butcher
Also if u are telling that cause of the ptr changes i doubt this is the final build or that ret will be bad in foundry 4p looks more than insane buff to me at least on cleave/aoe

[Jackielope]

^

Wizards are generally characters that cast spells.

I think they got rid of any kind of skill-cap designing Draenor classes/specs/mechanics, so that point is moot.

Then the term "casters" would be more appropriate. Wizard implies a specific class.

There is some skill in making each spec work, but of course some have higher caps than others and some players will find different mechanics more suited to their style. Blizzard has generally simplified things this expansion and coupled with the player base on average getting more skilled as time progresses I suppose Blizzard overdid it.

[Darktheist]

Ret's weak, hahahaha, good joke I enjoyed the laugh, let's all move onto the discussion now. Personally I'm looking forward to using EmpS, even more now it's been buffed slightly. I think that although it's a talent that is slightly clunky and ultimately unrewarding for a large number of the player base adding some depth to classes isn't a bad thing. Honestly I'm bored of final verdict, it's added to my game play and I enjoy using it but I prefer the high risk talents that offer more reward "to which I feel EmpS offers on single target, at least enough that if you play correctly and want to squeeze out extra damage, it can" that said the talent itself is pretty fucking boring.

[Biggeorge]

Ladies and gentlemen; A real troll.

Overall damage isn't what matters. Mar'gok is a very good fight to showcase rets strength if you use the right talents :-)

Hello, sorry to bother you, but I feel like I do very poorly against Mar'gok. Could you be more specific about the strenght of rets for this fight? Thank you

[thegoodrogue]

Hello, sorry to bother you, but I feel like I do very poorly against Mar'gok. Could you be more specific about the strenght of rets for this fight? Thank you

They do tons of 2 target cleave.. wait a second... they do TONS of little add damage unlike enhancement shamans... wait a second.. they do tons of single target boss damage so you can easily skip the very hard berserk timer and make the fight a joke... wait a second...

They bring hand of sacrifice and.... rebuke! Great spec.

[Hawg]

6.1 PTR ; Prot pal are nerfed, retri not so much. Here for us :

Well its all relative.... The way I read the PTR notes, most other DPS classes received some significant buffs. So even though we didn't receive any direct nerfs, this patch is looking like we will be down relative to other classes = a nerf.

[Deleted]

They do tons of 2 target cleave.. wait a second... they do TONS of little add damage unlike enhancement shamans... wait a second.. they do tons of single target boss damage so you can easily skip the very hard berserk timer and make the fight a joke... wait a second...

They bring hand of sacrifice and.... rebuke! Great spec.

Quit the trolling, this is getting really annoying

[Angelyka]

Well its all relative.... The way I read the PTR notes, most other DPS classes received some significant buffs. So even though we didn't receive any direct nerfs, this patch is looking like we will be down relative to other classes = a nerf.

If u think DS range is not direct nerf then u never used it properly or at least to it`s full potencial

[Deleted]

Damage doesn't matter??? I just checked with a credible source and they said you have to bring most bosses' health to 0 in order to defeat them. I haven't simmed it but it seems ret paladins are brought to do damage and not heal or tank.

I'm sure you know as well as anyone that difficult bosses are not brought down by people who's only planning for a fight is how to maximise their personal damage. There are things I could do differently on fights such as Mar'gok but I wouldn't be taken for progress because I'd be blowing everyone up and pissing the healers right off.

[Xs]

Hello, sorry to bother you, but I feel like I do very poorly against Mar'gok. Could you be more specific about the strenght of rets for this fight? Thank you

They do Magic damage as a melee (slightly easier time as melee), and if specced for DP they can go mental with the adds to the point you only need 1-2 people on them when done correctly.

- - - Updated - - -

Also since noone bothered yet --SNIP-- Skilldotgg's logs are pretty easy to find.. and it does show that he is indeed in need of assistance on everything besides Brackenspore, he just doesn't know how to ask for help properly, poor thing.

Naming and shaming is forbidden here

[Deleted]

They do tons of 2 target cleave.. wait a second... they do TONS of little add damage unlike enhancement shamans... wait a second.. they do tons of single target boss damage so you can easily skip the very hard berserk timer and make the fight a joke... wait a second...

They bring hand of sacrifice and.... rebuke! Great spec.

On your first kill, you were top damage on Mar'gok and Cho'gal.

I personally have the abberations as my priority target and spec accordingly; I've no doubt if you did the same you'd have been top of damage on those too. You're good enough and your class is flexible enough to be of use wherever it is needed on that fight and your logs show that.