6.0 PvE Ret Paladin Theorycraft & Discussion

[Xs]

Idk why that would be an issue. Since when is it a rule that a tier bonus can't modify our aoe procs/DMG?

Its not that they can't, its that its worded like a Divine Purpose for HoW, not a per target hit proc.

[Kantalope]

Thanks for not answering my question!

The difference is negligible as weapon dps is king. That being said, I wouldn't ditch any mastery.

[Xenocidic]

Hans and Frans probably seems melee unfriendly because of downtime when only one boss is down and hes jumping around, but i dont think ranged has it much better on that fight considering all the movement with both smart and pattern stamps. At least i didnt find anything other then the boss outranging me during pattern stamps being somewhat of an annoyance (guess this also only happens when you use the 2 group strategy rather then brutforcing it with healing cooldowns and just stacking)

Lemme amend it a bit. For our comp with the healers we had it wasn't melee friendly. Top dps was a rogue, next were our moonkins, hunters, warlocks, and elemental shaman. Basically if you were a melee without a raid cooldown (or storm earth and fire) you weren't in there, for us.

[Reghame]

No Hanz and Franz video. Not a very melee friendly fight, but here is Flamebender! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mrbd3Pa4nK4 Sucks having to save cooldowns at the start. just really shows how slow Ret is. Hope everyone has a good weekend and good luck on getting your 4 pieces.

im not entirly sure why but for flamebender, ret's damage just flat out sucks so hard its not even funny. i guess its one of the few encounters where its mostly single target where ranged dont have to move that much but shit even on our kill i was getting beat by some of our raiders who parse in the 60% and such. not sure if our single target is just so horrible or if other's single is so high while still having good AOE ability.

oh well. maybe the buff to hammer will make us good again kappa

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looking at logs for flamebender too, we only have 2 rets in top 200, both of which had at least one point of massive DS spam during all CDs active for the dogs. is that how we are gona do good dps? hope we get god procs in a very short window and hopefully rank top 60? super lame :/

[Deleted]

Quick, and probaly dumb question but here goes:

Obtained a couple of 665 Tier tokens today, so now i got the choice between this:

Set1
-T17 Chest (680) Shoulders (665) Gloves (665) Pants (671) making it 4set. Offpiece is the mythic kargath helm.

Set2
-T17 Chest (680) Shoulders (665) Gloves (686 haste/mastery) Pants (685 haste/mastery) making it 2set.

I lose around 8.5% mastery going from set 2 to set 1, meaning going from 2set to 4set. Also around 4 iLevel

any idea?

[Xs]

Set1
-T17 Chest (680) Shoulders (665) Gloves (665) Pants (671) making it 4set. Offpiece is the mythic kargath helm.

This will probably be several thousand DPS ahead, the "value" of the 4 set + 2 set is so much more than 4 ilvls, you'd have to be an idiot to not take it.
This is the kind of thing thats incredibly easy to sim though, since you already (I assume) have the parts, and even if you had no idea how to use Simcraft you could just press 3 buttons and relog in the different set to do it again.

[Xenocidic]

im not entirly sure why but for flamebender, ret's damage just flat out sucks so hard its not even funny. i guess its one of the few encounters where its mostly single target where ranged dont have to move that much but shit even on our kill i was getting beat by some of our raiders who parse in the 60% and such. not sure if our single target is just so horrible or if other's single is so high while still having good AOE ability.

oh well. maybe the buff to hammer will make us good again kappa

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looking at logs for flamebender too, we only have 2 rets in top 200, both of which had at least one point of massive DS spam during all CDs active for the dogs. is that how we are gona do good dps? hope we get god procs in a very short window and hopefully rank top 60? super lame :/

Yeah man, realistically on Mythic you only get 10-15 seconds of aoe per dog phase. The guys who get the chain DP/EmpDS procs are gonna be the guys who parse. We sure won't make it up there on single target. That said however, pretty much all of our dps were equal on Flamebender herself. The fight actually works out pretty well for ret timing, AW comes back up just as she is close to dying and the last set of dogs comes out, but no one can really aoe them cause you are burning her so it lets you get some padding in with some lucky procs. Gotta love it.


On another note, does anyone know of any other set bonus that is completely invalidated by using your cooldowns? or execute phase? MAN I wish one of the 6.1 changes was making 2pc reset HoW cooldown.

[Maegor]

Yeah, not resetting the CD on HoW sucks, but I think what is worse, mechanically speaking, is that HoW use during AW consumes the 2p proc. This isn't gamebreaking, as it won't matter except at the end of AW (since the proc duration is relatively short), just an annoyance that you can get a proc near the end of AW, and if you get a late AW hammer, it basically negates that late proc.

[MBDTF]

Yeah, not resetting the CD on HoW sucks, but I think what is worse, mechanically speaking, is that HoW use during AW consumes the 2p proc. This isn't gamebreaking, as it won't matter except at the end of AW (since the proc duration is relatively short), just an annoyance that you can get a proc near the end of AW, and if you get a late AW hammer, it basically negates that late proc.

thinking realistically HoW resetting would be too much IMO.

[Solsacra]

#HammerofWrath

For those interested, a new IRC channel #HammerofWrath has been created to serve as a live discussion forum for the Retribution community (and the paladin community as a whole). Similar in pursuit and function of both #Acherus (Death Knight) and #Ravenholdt (Rogue). The goal of this channel is to expand our ability to quickly communicate, Theorycraft, and present new ideas. #HammerofWrath is open to both new and old players alike. If you're interested in being included into the usergroup simply click this link!

Channel Rules & How to join

Quoting for those that may have missed it!

[Hazemat]

Are they the same ilvl? Yes? Then the difference is so minimal it doesn't matter at all and someone raiding heroic should have minimal understanding of raiding and his class/spec at this point to know that it then boils down to raid min-max passing it to another DPS if its a better gain for him or grabbing it if its going for DE.

Seriously, I'm tired of this extreme hand-holding... if you want surgeon precision on the answers, get Simcraft > Sim your char > Spit your weightings with current gear > Sum the 2 weapons stats together to get a rating (Or export to Wowhead or use an addon like Pawn) > Get the one with higher points.

Really, if you can't really connect those follow-up steps from info given please stop breathing and save us from you.

Calm down you scrub "elitist" because you can sim. I was just asking a simple question. No need for you to get anus heavy on it. I can sim too, I was just seeing if something could be an exception to the rule. I'm tired of this false "elitist" attitude plaguing everything. Because a simple answer stops you from "breathing". Get over yourself you loser. Its a game. It was a simple question, answer it, or don't.

Please avoid such tone and aggression in posting.- Krekko

[Kalshen]

His point was that unless someone sims your character they will not be able to give you the answer you want (which we cant because we do not know your characters name or server). IE your stat weights will be different than whoever answers the question.

[Hazemat]

His point was that unless someone sims your character they will not be able to give you the answer you want (which we cant because we do not know your characters name or server). IE your stat weights will be different than whoever answers the question.

Perfectly fine answer. I get that. It does not hurt to check if perhaps there is something that maybe I don't know about how things work. Having an ego holds you back from learning. Its a lot different when someone says "you're probably just going to have to sim it" than "Really, if you can't really connect those follow up steps from info given please stop breathing and save us from you" garbage. Like going to sims every tiny question makes you so much more enlightened and a better person than everyone else, so much so that everyone else should "stop breathing". Incredibly pathetic someone would take it to that point over a game.

[Relimash]

Eat a snickers Hazemat.

[Xs]

Perfectly fine answer. I get that. It does not hurt to check if perhaps there is something that maybe I don't know about how things work. Having an ego holds you back from learning. Its a lot different when someone says "you're probably just going to have to sim it" than "Really, if you can't really connect those follow up steps from info given please stop breathing and save us from you" garbage. Like going to sims every tiny question makes you so much more enlightened and a better person than everyone else, so much so that everyone else should "stop breathing". Incredibly pathetic someone would take it to that point over a game.

To be fair to him, you're asking a question in the Theorycrafting thread, rather than the "Fix my DPS" thread, you're lucky if you even got an answer, let alone a somewhat useful one that wasn't just "sim it". This thread is supposed to be for sharing information about bosses, items and ideology, not helping individual use cases. You should have worded it differently for your question, such as "is theres an agreed upon 'best' weapon?" to which the answer would still be his answer.

[Purish]

I'm still using the 4 piece PVP set since I haven't gotten my 2p/4p yet.

I was wondering if I should be dumping at 3 HP more to maintain uptime on the buff or just stick to the regular priority?

[Deleted]

Thanks to the strength of our T17 bonuses and how well they synergies with DP and FV, the only optimal method of play once bonuses are acquired use these two talents, for all situations.

Hey fellow retribution paladins, i was just wondering if this still counts as written on the 13th of october on the initial post last year or if there were any changes to this.
I'm still unsure for what talents to go for for best output with 4s set bonus

[Esmi]

Hi, just asking - I guess the new Alchemy-Trinket will be a high-ranking trinket with 6.1 ? (at least compared to other itl 680 trinkets?)

[Xs]

I'm still using the 4 piece PVP set since I haven't gotten my 2p/4p yet.

I was wondering if I should be dumping at 3 HP more to maintain uptime on the buff or just stick to the regular priority?

The difference is miniscule, the attention required to track it would probably reduce your DPS more than the gain from tracking it.

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Hey fellow retribution paladins, i was just wondering if this still counts as written on the 13th of october on the initial post last year or if there were any changes to this.
I'm still unsure for what talents to go for for best output with 4s set bonus

Its not an insane difference, but it buffs DP significantly more than SW/HA (both of which also lose value from the bonus during their uptimes). That said though, if you're on a fight that needs heavy burst, depending on the length/amount required you may want to use HA/SW.

[Maegor]

Hey fellow retribution paladins, i was just wondering if this still counts as written on the 13th of october on the initial post last year or if there were any changes to this.
I'm still unsure for what talents to go for for best output with 4s set bonus

If you look at the bottom of the post there is an edited on date. I don't want to put words in Solsacra's mouth but I would consider all information to be current up to the edited date.