6.0 PvE Ret Paladin Theorycraft & Discussion

[Xs]

Here's a question, it is worth the hassle to drop 5 ilvl for better stated gear, I have some mythic pieces from Highmaul with terrible stat crit/vs ugh but i've gotten piece from BRF with Haste/Mast or Mast/Multi but they are lower ilvls yet raise my secondaries what should I do here

We can't really tell you, you'd have to Sim it as it depends on how much crit/vers and mast/hast/multi you have. Personally I've replaced a few shit items with downgrades for an increase, but I had to sim it all first.

[Deleted]

Stupid questin, but how many iterations do you use to correctly SimC? I've done all my sims with 10k iterations
until now, but some dude in my raid who thinks himself as a theorycrafting expert keeps telling me that
10k would have way to much spread (up to 3%). I simmed my gear 10 times and got like 0,06% spread.

Should I use more, or is 10k with 0,06% spread accurate?

[Xs]

10k is fine, any more than that is just excessive and a waste of CPU power. I run a lot of my chart sims on 1k until I'm doing the final draft and it doesn't change the results by very much at all.

[Deleted]

Here's a question, it is worth the hassle to drop 5 ilvl for better stated gear, I have some mythic pieces from Highmaul with terrible stat crit/vs ugh but i've gotten piece from BRF with Haste/Mast or Mast/Multi but they are lower ilvls yet raise my secondaries what should I do here

hi, question is interesting though. i would say, try a full mastery build for beastmaster. i for myself, dropped 4pvp, got 2pve set and a lot more mastery, by loosing 2ilvls, and results were good at aoe fights(no evidence), just try it out.

[TKTank]

Calm down you scrub "elitist" because you can sim. I was just asking a simple question. No need for you to get anus heavy on it. I can sim too, I was just seeing if something could be an exception to the rule. I'm tired of this false "elitist" attitude plaguing everything. Because a simple answer stops you from "breathing". Get over yourself you loser. Its a game. It was a simple question, answer it, or don't.

So, besides the fact of your silly question I DID answer your question with the "quick answer" saying they're very close but ALSO pointed you to the more "advanced" answer that's simming your char and even told you the steps to do so in case you didn't know how to do (which was implied by your silly question) and you answer me cursing and bad-mouthing...and I'M the elitist one?!

Your question doesn't leave room for discussion.
Your question doesn't add anything or any info to the thread or even to your own doubt.
Your question is simply a statement "GUYZES, MAKE ME GUD NAO!".

If you want input onto something then a question along the lines "Hello, I've simmed my char and got XYZ results linked below. Do you guys think for skills A or weapons B and C I'd get better results this or that way?" would be MUCH more appreciated and actually useful.
That way we have something to work with and actually someone else might learn something when we discuss your point as well.

I was midly snarky, if anything, in my answer and you are the one that went full retard in your reply and I actually took MY time to answer YOUR silly question.

You know why others didn't reply you like that? Because they didn't even bother to waste their time with such silly question, that's why. Don't think no one else thought the same about your question...it's simply they didn't bother.

You seem to be the one that needs to "Get yourself you loser." if you can't handle such feedback in a slightly harsh manner.

[Xs]

hi, question is interesting though. i would say, try a full mastery build for beastmaster. i for myself, dropped 4pvp, got 2pve set and a lot more mastery, by loosing 2ilvls, and results were good at aoe fights(no evidence), just try it out.

Surprised you can drop the pvp for the 2 piece and not gain item levels out of it.

[Theck]

After noting some odd behavior on 2pT17 (namely, proccing too much), I think I've uncovered the why. Seemingly, Divine Storm has a 20% chance to proc a HoW per target hit. Fish through any log of a Paladin with at least 2pT17, and, for fights like Darmac, Thogar, or Blast Furnace, their Crusader's Fury procs will generally double that of Divine Purpose or Divine Crusader. However, those same Paladins will have generally the same or less CF procs on fights like Blackhand, Gruul, or Oregorger.

I want to think this is intended behavior, but based on the wording on 2pT17, I'm inclined to believe it's a bug.

Question: did you (or anyone else) test whether this is strictly per target hit, or simply per target? I'm assuming the former, but I don't have time to set up a test (is PTR even still up?).

It shouldn't come up that often, but I can imagine some scenarios where it would. Example: attacking from the front, maybe the boss parries DS but it hits 3 other targets. Does the game make the proc roll 3 times, or 4?

Easiest way to test would be to attack a single raid dummy from the front, and look for a case where a DS cast was parried but you still got a proc. A single positive result would answer that it's per target rather than per target hit, but since my guess is it's the latter you'd need a statistically significant sample (probably 50+ parried DS's without a proc).

[Maegor]

While this doesn't prove what you were asking, doesn't this prove that there is a per target/per target hit function happening:

00:02:14.636 Maegoree gains Divine Purpose from Maegoree
00:02:14.636 Maegoree casts Divine Storm
00:02:14.636 Maegoree Divine Storm Dungeoneer's Training Dummy 6623
00:02:14.636 Maegoree Divine Storm Dungeoneer's Training Dummy 7010
00:02:14.657 Maegoree gains Crusader's Fury from Maegoree
00:02:14.657 Maegoree's Crusader's Fury is refreshed by Maegoree
00:02:14.657 Maegoree Hand of Light Dungeoneer's Training Dummy 4013
00:02:14.660 Maegoree Hand of Light Dungeoneer's Training Dummy 4247
00:02:15.029 Maegoree Censure Dungeoneer's Training Dummy Tick 1658

[Aiyia]

Whats your highest uptime of vindicators fury? (post nerf ofc)

I haven't kept close track but looking back at logs now the highest seem to be around 87-88%. It's important to note that logged % uptime can be a bit deceiving. A good example is when using SW with heroism in the opener. The % uptime logged for vindicator's fury is usually 95%+ during SW but the buff is only affecting 3 out of every 4 casts because it falls off a split second before it would be refreshed every time. So the actual uptime during SW is closer to 75% + any additional uptime gained via divine crusader procs.

[Theck]

00:08:22.112 Dakeshi gains Final Verdict from Dakeshi
00:08:22.112 Dakeshi Final Verdict Imperator Mar'gok Parry
00:08:22.161 Dakeshi gains Crusader's Fury from Dakeshi

Thanks, that's exactly what I needed!

- - - Updated - - -

While this doesn't prove what you were asking, doesn't this prove that there is a per target/per target hit function happening:

Yes, but I wasn't questioning that. I just needed to know whether I should code it to proc off of a parry/dodge/etc. or not when putting it into SimC for you.

[Felkor]

Hello,

Something is not clear for me on the OP :

Final Verdict AoE
While using the Final Verdict Talent, once two or more targets are present, you will alternate finishers between Final Verdict & Divine Storm. Take note of the availability of the Final Verdict buff before using Divine Storm.
...
Once three Targets are present Templar’s Verdict is simply substituted with Divine Storm.

Which one is true ? Is Templar's Verdict a misspell ?
Because "two or more" is three for me

[Deleted]

Hello,

Something is not clear for me on the OP :



Which one is true ? Is Templar's Verdict a misspell ?
Because "two or more" is three for me

If you are using Templar's Verdict, you don't have Final Verdict. If you have Final Verdict, you always weave on 2+ - always.

[Felkor]

Ok, that's what I've found on the sim action list.
But the presentation made me doubt, like if it was on the same section (FV) but in fact no, my bad

[Kochanski]

Wasn't it shown in the sim thread that alternating FV/DS on 2 targets was actually a dps loss, should just be FV untill have free DS+FV buff, then it's worth using.

Therefor it should be 3+ for aoe.

[Maegor]

Wasn't it shown in the sim thread that alternating FV/DS on 2 targets was actually a dps loss, should just be FV untill have free DS+FV buff, then it's worth using.

Therefor it should be 3+ for aoe.

There was an error in the code where only one target being hit was being with an ds^fv, the other target was being hit by a ds without the fv buff. Aoe at 2+ targets with FV.

[Azdan]

I've sent a Invite request to the hammerofwrath email adress 2 days ago, can you please answer it? thanks a lot

[Solsacra]

I've sent a Invite request to the hammerofwrath email adress 2 days ago, can you please answer it? thanks a lot

Send me a PM with your username and I'll get to it ASAP.

[Mystery2012]

Has anybody else had times where you just can't use the T17 4pc?

For example:
5 HP -> FV (2 pc procs) -> HoW -> CS -> J -> FV (2 pc procs) -> HoW -> CS -> J -> FV (2pc procs) -> repeat as many times as the 2 pc procs.
In this situation it feels like I'm wasting the 4 pc. I wondered if it would be better to do something like:
5 HP -> FV (2 pc procs) -> HoW -> FV -> Exo -> (HoW if 2 pc procced) -> CS -> continue with normal rotation.

I tried to sim it by adding the line

below

but I lost about 100 dps with it.
I'm wondering why this is worse than "wasting" the potential 3 HP. Did I miss something?

A little bump up. Has anyone an idea what I'm missing there?

[Xs]

A little bump up. Has anyone an idea what I'm missing there?

I think the reason you're seeing lower DPS is just due to the lack of 100% activity, it might work if you dropped it between CS/J in the rotation rather than ahead of both.

[Aiyia]

A little bump up. Has anyone an idea what I'm missing there?

The chance of getting two 2-piece procs in a row is 4% (three is 0.8%). Not only that but you'd have to get an exorcism reset proc before finally using your exorcism to truly waste 2 whole HP (otherwise you'd just waste the part of the cooldown timer on exorcism that you lost from not using it earlier assuming you don't get a reset proc soon after you finally use exorcism and assuming you get another 2-piece proc to even use the second blazing contempt right away). My guess is that the rare waste of *up to* 2 HP (it's 2 instead of 3 b/c you gain 2 extra from the proc, not 3 extra) is slightly overtaken by not having as many dead globals from the change in priority.