6.0 PvE Ret Paladin Theorycraft & Discussion

[Deleted]

It's litteratly in the OP. Like you click on this thread, scroll down for 1 second, and you can find basic stat weights - for every talent combination - right in front of you. Just look at the first post. That chart, those numbers.

If you can't read that chart, I'm sorry for you.
If you can't be bothered to learn how to sim it yourself, I'm sorry for you.
If you don't read the OP before posting a question, damn son. Just damn.

Our base stat balance can be summarized as:
Mastery > (Haste-15%(buffed) = Multistrike = Crit) > Versatility = Haste <---- I know.....

I mean for example:

Main Hand Dps: 12.45 Str: 5.555 Ap: 5.05 Mastery: 3 GENEREAL not spell by spell
I need it for askmrrobot stats weights

[Maegor]

Our base stat balance can be summarized as:
Mastery > (Haste-15%(buffed) = Multistrike = Crit) > Versatility = Haste <---- I know.....

I mean for example:

Main Hand Dps: 12.45 Str: 5.555 Ap: 5.05 Mastery: 3 GENEREAL not spell by spell
I need it for askmrrobot stats weights

You looked right past the charts he was talking about.

There are 2 charts above the general stat priority, one for highmaul and one for foundry. Look at the highmaul one, find your talent choice, get stat weights.

[Rayocell]

Our base stat balance can be summarized as:
Mastery > (Haste-15%(buffed) = Multistrike = Crit) > Versatility = Haste <---- I know.....

I mean for example:

Main Hand Dps: 12.45 Str: 5.555 Ap: 5.05 Mastery: 3 GENEREAL not spell by spell
I need it for askmrrobot stats weights

Check the pictures just above that...or you can sim it out for yourself. Main hand DPS will beat Str, so just put a higher number (12, I guess) in for AMR.

[Solsacra]

If you're having trouble trying to normalize the charts in the OP, all you have to do is divide the secondary value by the primary value. In the case of Divine Purpose and Final Verdict without tier bonuses (Highmaul), you would get these values:

Strength: 1
Mastery: .57
multistrike: .5
Critical: .48
Haste: .43
Versatility: .43

[Snuglz]

From what I can tell with my gear/stats atm it looks like HA/FV are what I would get the best output with. What is the best way to optimize HA in the rotation. I will have 3 CDs then. Holy Avenger/Scabbard/Avenging Wrath

[Maegor]

From what I can tell with my gear/stats atm it looks like HA/FV are what I would get the best output with. What is the best way to optimize HA in the rotation. I will have 3 CDs then. Holy Avenger/Scabbard/Avenging Wrath

Stack all. Murder everything every 2 min. Delay scabbard to line up.

[Snuglz]

Stack all. Murder everything every 2 min. Delay scabbard to line up.

Is there any proof of delaying the Scabbard 30 seconds as being a dps gain if stacked with HA/AW? Don't get me wrong it sounds like it might be best I was just curious if there was any numbers behind it.

[Maegor]

Is there any proof of delaying the Scabbard 30 seconds as being a dps gain if stacked with HA/AW? Don't get me wrong it sounds like it might be best I was just curious if there was any numbers behind it.

Solsacra sims.

- - - Updated - - -

The Titans looked at the animals on Draenor and said, "You, be ye fruitful, and multiply; bring forth abundantly in the earth, and multiply therein. Not you though boars."

[Reghame]

HA/FV does seem to be a very potent combo for both AOE and single right now. Noticed a lot of cleaving taking place though so might take up DP when we re clear in heroic tonight (not first boss since all single target unless in stands and on butcher)

Also, anti mage boss with final verdict makes us look like scrubs :/ doing 6k dps on skada over the whole fight because it all shows up as absorbs is just silly ( still doing damage btw, the shield is important too!)

Over all, was almost always #1 in damage. This might be troubling as we have NEVER been top like that like ever. PVP seems too broken right now too as im literally killing people in 2 seconds just like i was in beta and alpha.

Raiding in highmaul also made me feel a little lack luster a majority of the time due to bosses AOE mechanics and not having any way to help. Sac has been nice but i could not find much use for BoP which would be a big increase for the raid. (kargath's fixate is the only one i found that was decent on now that he does not simply reset target when bop goes up like it did for a while in beta.)

PVP is a clusterfuck. We are OP indeed, but this is like wrath on super stimpacks or something. Fights literally dont last longer than 10-20 seconds in 2-3s right now due to every class but like 2 having massive AOE. we are still faily week vs classes that can dispell our bubble but in a proper team, that will never happen because of the immense burst that is brought by those said comps. Honestly not even enjoying ret in pvp despite them being really good right now because its not even really a skill thing right now, its just who crit or MS harder. The burst is WAY too high and you never have time to really "outplay" your opponent, just get lucky in crits n shit

Over all, since we seem to be more then good, bordering "OP" or too strong, i would expect to get toned down quite heavily. I think we should put in a good word in now instead of later, possibly change our mastery to a dot so we dont two shot kids? i have not gone to the pvp forusm yet or anything but when i do, i would not be surprised to see a page full of tears about us and i cant honestly blame them.



END OF BIG POST!

[Fredzilla]

Solsacra sims.

- - - Updated - - -

The Titans looked at the animals on Draenor and said, "You, be ye fruitful, and multiply; bring forth abundantly in the earth, and multiply therein. Not you though boars."

What boars? I don't see any boars.

[Deleted]

3/12/14
My SoK: 140 vers and 2200 str. at 16:00
My SoK: 2200 str 15secs At 23:00

nerffed-buffed-rebuffed-nerffed? 4 change....

[Kennpai]

3/12/14
My SoK: 140 vers and 2200 str. at 16:00
My SoK: 2200 str 15secs At 23:00

nerffed-buffed-rebuffed-nerffed? 4 change....

Yes they accidently buffed it and reverted it.

[drtrann]

hello,

I just picked up holy avenger over divine purpose and I was hoping to get some clarification on optimal usage of SOK

from what I've been reading people are suggesting that you save SoK until 30 seconds after pull. so to me this makes the pull look like

execution sentence -> avenging wrath -> holy avenger -> HoW + final verdict/(divine storm on emp divine storm proc + final verdict buff) for 30 seconds -> SoK -> regular rotation (divine storm+emp+FV > 5xHP final verdict > CS >J > exorcism> 3xHP final verdict).

please feel free to make me look like an idiot if thats totally wrong.

[Deleted]

@Solsacra

Something that i don't understand is why you claim that sanctified wrath provide our highest single target dps while both your Highmaul and T17 sims (on the op) show us that HA/FV > SW/FV.

[Xs]

from what I've been reading people are suggesting that you save SoK until 30 seconds after pull. so to me this makes the pull look like

execution sentence -> avenging wrath -> holy avenger -> HoW + final verdict/(divine storm on emp divine storm proc + final verdict buff) for 30 seconds -> SoK -> regular rotation (divine storm+emp+FV > 5xHP final verdict > CS >J > exorcism> 3xHP final verdict).

please feel free to make me look like an idiot if thats totally wrong.

If you're using HA FV SoK, you just want to macro everything on a 2 minute absolute destruction cycle.

[cowbear]

if u have scabard and use sw ur sustain on single target fights this tier kargath and butcher are insane more like cuz u still dont kill them on a bad wings downtime but more like the perfect uptime most kills go 4;30-5 min so sw its the best + dp is way 2 rng to sync the procs with scabard on single target on pull and stuff

[VanirWoW]

New Ret here so take this all with a grain of salt. I'm pretty new to WoW as well but raided in a few other games.

Running with guild tonight we ran our heads into the first boss on Heroic Highmaul. I started off using HA but ended up switching to DP as the other Ret in the group was just fairly consistently ahead of me from pull to pull. He seemed to be getting a good bit of his DPS from proc strings of Divine Storm while we're up in the crowd. I could be wrong but it seems as though that's just padding, intention or otherwise, is this true? It seems as though the random nature is more annoying than the consistent burst combo of SoK + HA + AW. Is it worth getting used to the proc-based nature of DP or is it ultimately okay to get used to HA? I'm less concerned with optimal on a straight parse or padding but what brings more effectiveness in a raid situation I suppose.

Thanks!

[Bonkura]

For Kargath I went with DP + EmpSeals because I was on add duty. For single target I felt SW+EmpSeals was the most stable talents. I went FW for fights I had to help out a lot with the healing so I didn't really have the GCD's to justify using EmpSeals. When we did The Butcher heroic I even had to use Holy Prism to help out with the healing (insanely tuned fight, we had 7 wipes on it with most ppl at 640+).

In terms of DPS compared to the other guys in the guild I was top 4 in a 15 man raid on all fights, usually 2nd behind our hunter who's gone crazy on AH with 15 ilvls more than me.

Doing the rest of the fights on heroic tomorow because we cleared normal first. Sucks I don't get loot beause I'm working evenings this month so I'll miss most of mythic progression this tier. :<

[Trel]

I'm being consistently beat by a paladin who's about 10 ilvl's below me.

I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong.

I've begun using CLCInfo with the latest recommended rotation with empowered seals.
I'm not sure what I could be doing wrong, but I'm 640 and he's 630 and he's consistently beating me by 1k or more.

Are there any common gotchas that I might be missing?
I can link our toons so you could see both our gear if that's necessary but I'm above him in every stat.

[RagnorZ]

I'm being consistently beat by a paladin who's about 10 ilvl's below me.

I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong.

I've begun using CLCInfo with the latest recommended rotation with empowered seals.
I'm not sure what I could be doing wrong, but I'm 640 and he's 630 and he's consistently beating me by 1k or more.

Are there any common gotchas that I might be missing?
I can link our toons so you could see both our gear if that's necessary but I'm above him in every stat.

Is he using Draenic Strength potions and Greater Draenic Strength Flask and you are not? Is he he pre pott'ing right before the pull for extra potion cd during the fight?