6.0 PvE Ret Paladin Theorycraft & Discussion

[Kennpai]

I'm being consistently beat by a paladin who's about 10 ilvl's below me.

I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong.

I've begun using CLCInfo with the latest recommended rotation with empowered seals.
I'm not sure what I could be doing wrong, but I'm 640 and he's 630 and he's consistently beating me by 1k or more.

Are there any common gotchas that I might be missing?
I can link our toons so you could see both our gear if that's necessary but I'm above him in every stat.

Need a link to your gear and a log. Also empseals is kind of hard to play with honestly, I'd go with FV.

[Trel]

Need a link to your gear and a log. Also empseals is kind of hard to play with honestly, I'd go with FV.

I don't have a log handy as far as I know, but

Me: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...rquista/simple
Him: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...r/maars/simple

We're both flasked. Maybe he pre-pots, but as far as using FV over Seals, he was beating me by 3k when I was FV, that's WHY I switched to seals.
I'm not sure if there's something glaringly obvious I'm doing wrong.

I can't get a log until next week unless someone else did one.

[Xs]

Looks like a catastrophic fail on your part given he doesn't even have the two good enchants or a decent second trinket

[Trel]

Looks like a catastrophic fail on your part given he doesn't even have the two good enchants or a decent second trinket

Yes. So, I asked for help. Thank you for restating what I said in my first post.

It's obvious I'm doing something wrong. I'm trying to find out WHAT.

EDIT: here's what I put in CLCInfo eds5_fv tv_dp_4s eds_4s tv5 how eds_fv_aw_exec tv_aw_exec cs eds_fv j tv_dp tv4 exo tv3

[Deleted]

Yes. So, I asked for help. Thank you for restating what I said in my first post.

It's obvious I'm doing something wrong. I'm trying to find out WHAT.

EDIT: here's what I put in CLCInfo eds5_fv tv_dp_4s eds_4s tv5 how eds_fv_aw_exec tv_aw_exec cs eds_fv j tv_dp tv4 exo tv3

Don't completely rely on an addon telling you what to do. Maybe you should learn how your class works, and stop tunneling clcinfo :^)

[Deleted]

Well, a question about BiS list for Solsacra

• Earthfury Band
• Grunt's Solid Signet

I used the stat value of op for DP_FV -and noticing a mistake in wowdb about the first one, it's 108vers 99mastery and 157str on in-game codex- I found out the tectus' ring better than the kargath one. In your BiS list you took in mind the 15% haste cap which isn't reflected in the stats weight ? Or there is something else ? Tried the calculation with both SW_EmpS and DP_FV and tectus' ring seems better for both.

EDIT : In the same topic, I found the same bug in wowdb and "issue" with the 2H, Mar'gok's 2H seems a bit ahead with the stats weight in the op.

[decyphier]

Yes. So, I asked for help. Thank you for restating what I said in my first post.

It's obvious I'm doing something wrong. I'm trying to find out WHAT.

EDIT: here's what I put in CLCInfo eds5_fv tv_dp_4s eds_4s tv5 how eds_fv_aw_exec tv_aw_exec cs eds_fv j tv_dp tv4 exo tv3

Maybe you should learn to play the class without an addon and then start from there. I don't even know how people use that addon anyway. I tried it a few weeks ago and I couldn't stand it.

[Deleted]

hello,

I just picked up holy avenger over divine purpose and I was hoping to get some clarification on optimal usage of SOK

from what I've been reading people are suggesting that you save SoK until 30 seconds after pull. so to me this makes the pull look like

execution sentence -> avenging wrath -> holy avenger -> HoW + final verdict/(divine storm on emp divine storm proc + final verdict buff) for 30 seconds -> SoK -> regular rotation (divine storm+emp+FV > 5xHP final verdict > CS >J > exorcism> 3xHP final verdict).

please feel free to make me look like an idiot if thats totally wrong.

Wouldn't you want to pop Avenging Wrath before Execution Sentence? Or is ES not affected by the damage buff?

[Relimash]

Yes. So, I asked for help. Thank you for restating what I said in my first post.

It's obvious I'm doing something wrong. I'm trying to find out WHAT.

EDIT: here's what I put in CLCInfo eds5_fv tv_dp_4s eds_4s tv5 how eds_fv_aw_exec tv_aw_exec cs eds_fv j tv_dp tv4 exo tv3

I would try and play without that addon. You'd be better off understanding how our rotation works in the grand scheme of things, instead of only looking 1 or 2 global ahead at any given time. That addon just enforces bad behavior. But if you really need/like it that much then keep going the way you are going.

This is from your normal Twin Ogron kill.
Would have done the Butcher or something but you were dead

HIM-
Judgment----------------89 holy power
Crusader Strike---------66 holy power
Hammer of Wrath------48 holy power
Exorcism----------------38 holy power
Templar's Verdict-------74Hit 15Crit
Divine Storm------------31Hit 1Crit 1Block
Liadrin's Righteousness------98.6 %
Maraad's Truth----------------97.8 %

You-
Judgment---------------67 holy power
Crusader Strike--------61 holy power
Hammer of Wrath------52 holy power
Exorcism----------------19 holy power
Hammer of the Righteous---4 holy power (why did you even cast this)
Templar's Verdict-------57Hit 5Crit
Divine Storm------------53Hit 10Crit 2Block
Liadrin's Righteousness--------38.8 %(I wouldnt take this talent if i was you)
Maraad's Truth------------------89.8 %

I had a lot of stuff typed, but i thought it all came out really mean. So im not going to say it. If you have any questions about those numbers just say something, they arent really good numbers. Sorry.

[Phantoms]

While EmpS is a pain in the ass, it was working well for me on single target. (SW/EmpS)

I go with DP/FV as my default for cleaving/aoe, but for the most part Highmaul has single target stuff and I stick with SW/EmpS. HA/FV with SoK sounds super juicy for that 2 minute obliteration cycle tho.

[decyphier]

Sorry, I'll be constructive. Relimash inspired me with his/her good intentions.

First of all, EmpS currently is weird talent. It requires a boatload of haste to be super optimal (or at least way better than/superior on a large scale to FV) and the playstyle is challenging on certain fights with a lot of movement, swaps, etc. It's not swap friendly, not even close to FV at least. I'd say by the end of Mythic HM/BRF, when we have a ton of haste (or at least 15% buffed), EmpS will pull ahead nicely and be comfortable to play.

With that said, you took EmpS on Twins which makes literally no sense. Twins is basically a cleave fight more than half the time, so FV pulls way ahead because you can constantly weave FV>DS the entire fight and hit both Twins. Literally weaving FV>DS will put you over 20k if you have optimized gear at the moment and hit the rest of your buttons that light up regardless of priority.

Wouldn't you want to pop Avenging Wrath before Execution Sentence? Or is ES not affected by the damage buff?

Yes, popping wings should be the first thing you do on the opener. Just macro HoW into Wings so you can kill two birds with one stone and then throw an ES.

I honestly have no idea how to read worldoflogs logs, I really hate that site. With that said, I can't really check your spells used aside from what Relimash linked. My guess is you're also not going through your rotation correctly at all, as in you're using HP spenders at 3 right away rather than pooling or only using TV, etc, if no other spell that generates HP is available.

Pool dat HP.

Edit: Words.

[Relimash]

You actually want to ES then wings now that snap shotting isn't a thing

Rest is right, there are a lot of problems with the logs. I hate world of logs too, tell your guild to use warcraft logs if you want people to look at them

[decyphier]

You actually want to ES then wings now that snap shotting isn't a thing

I always forget it's not a thing anymore. RIP.

[Deleted]

Morning all!

Not sure if this is a right place and not sure if anyone is that interested but anyways here is my logs from last night,

HM, Pirtni

If there how ever is someone that might want to take a look and give me some constructive feedback I'd be more than grateful, as this was my very first raid as a Ret Paladin and as melee over all (if tanking is not counted in)!

Thanks in advance!

[Duryea]

Maybe you should learn to play the class without an addon and then start from there. I don't even know how people use that addon anyway. I tried it a few weeks ago and I couldn't stand it.

I agree with this ^ Also ret is so much more fun without any addons telling you what to do

[Bonkura]

First of all, EmpS currently is weird talent. It requires a boatload of haste to be super optimal (or at least way better than/superior on a large scale to FV) and the playstyle is challenging on certain fights with a lot of movement, swaps, etc. It's not swap friendly, not even close to FV at least. I'd say by the end of Mythic HM/BRF, when we have a ton of haste (or at least 15% buffed), EmpS will pull ahead nicely and be comfortable to play.

I disagree completely. EmpS is strong right now because we don't have set bonuses and a lot of downtime in our rotation (unless you have really good RNG). Sure it might be hard to keep the buffs up 100% of the time but I doubt you actually need to (at least not the haste buff). FV is to me a more awkward talent since it doesn't give us more buttons to click while waiting for our fillers to become available again.

With that said I do get similar results with both talents and as I pointed out in my previous post FV is easier if you're helping your raid out with SH flash heals, bops, purity etc.

[Deleted]

I doubt his problem is CLCInfo, I used clcRet on The Butcher yesterday and pulled 19k in my 636 gear, which is fairly close to my SimC score for this gear. The only situation I completely ignored clcRet was during Wings since it for some reason doesn't want me to use hammer of wrath every second cooldown even though it fits more or less perfectly.

Not saying there's no merit in not using those kinds of addons, but clcInfo should NOT be telling him to use HP spenders without pooling, that's sort of why I'm using clc ret in the first place, to know when I have to spend HP (or use divine storm procs) because the cooldown is too long for me to be pooling.

[decyphier]

I disagree completely. EmpS is strong right now because we don't have set bonuses and a lot of downtime in our rotation (unless you have really good RNG). Sure it might be hard to keep the buffs up 100% of the time but I doubt you actually need to (at least not the haste buff). FV is to me a more awkward talent since it doesn't give us more buttons to click while waiting for our fillers to become available again.

With that said I do get similar results with both talents and as I pointed out in my previous post FV is easier if you're helping your raid out with SH flash heals, bops, purity etc.

If you like EmpS, you like EmpS. Follow your heart.

[Deleted]

Relimas....CAN I PLS GET UR UI.
It looks so fucking awesome!

If not pls tell me the addons <3
Thanks

[Aladdine]

I'm new to raiding as ret, my guild has done the first 3 bosses in normal HM so far. I was always top 2 on every fight, but I am wondering if I can improve my dps. I was playing FV/HA and ended up pulling 21.3k with 638 ilvl. I just found out about simcraft and it shows a small gain if I run FV/DP. Is there a large rotation difference with DP? I have never played with that talent and I'm wondering if it will be drastically different.