Elemental Shaman Guide for 6.0

[Ravingmad]

I believe UF might be the best choice, but with EQ in the rotation, it doesnt fit in time and you cant gain the full potential of the UF buff. I went with EB for now. With AS for the free-cast EQ. EotE is currently not working so well, as you cant stack EQ damage one on top of the other and your EotE proc need to be ON to have no CD on your NEXT spell, but most of the time it procs when its already on CD and usually gets "cancelled" by an instant proc from the flame shock. They should add stacks of EotE or make the next spell an instant cast (like the flame shock proc).

[Deleted]

Couldn't finish watching. You were giving incomplete information and pulling information out of your arse.

Ugh.

[Deleted]

Atm as patch 6.0.2

UF is the worst out of three talents by far with EB com lil ahead of PE

Spell prio is the same as mop with only change that u use es at 12+ ue will be used anyway after fs and before lvb in prio idk from where your prio com from

Stat weight atm is mastery>=haste>crit i dont t count multi due to it come only from ktt

And in wod multi>haste>crit>mastery>vers

Probably was not explained well in video but your right about priority in that order but my dpsing explanation would of shown it. With Unleashed Flame however I have read there is not much of a difference now between UF, PE and EB. So I Stuck with UF at this time, but again I did mention in video nothing is concrete yet. But thanks for the feedback.

I believe UF might be the best choice, but with EQ in the rotation, it doesnt fit in time and you cant gain the full potential of the UF buff. I went with EB for now. With AS for the free-cast EQ. EotE is currently not working so well, as you cant stack EQ damage one on top of the other and your EotE proc need to be ON to have no CD on your NEXT spell, but most of the time it procs when its already on CD and usually gets "cancelled" by an instant proc from the flame shock. They should add stacks of EotE or make the next spell an instant cast (like the flame shock proc).

Apparently Earthquake with full teir16 hc works and I have tested and it does put out so decent damage, however at level 100 I fail to see it being in rotation for single target.

Sadly yea EotE not good even though I really like the function of it. Lets all hope it gets a buff at level 100 for now EM is better.

Couldn't finish watching. You were giving incomplete information and pulling information out of your arse.

Ugh.

Says the level 578ilevel boy who couldn't clear SoO heroic or even Thok HC, used mining and herbing proffessions in 5.4 raiding (pro stats that stamina and healing ability tho..) who gems Crit & mastery, and Haste & Mastery in 5.4 (you clearly cant gem lol).... but yet criticises everything yet clearly stated in video not all will be 100% correct just yet and obviously did not watch all of it. You could at least make it constructive criticism to make a point that I can reflect on and see if you are right or wrong and if I am wrong I can correct it later, but fact is you talk out of your 'arse'.

[Gistwiki]

If searing totem is our highest DPET it should be up the top of priority no ? Because of how easy it is (10 second window) to manage flame shock now I put it as the top but realistically it should just be cast inside that window whenever you would use lightning bolt instead or such that it does not impede your next ES. I put those two at the highest because I Think shock juggling is our highest priority and everything else comes after that it's just that it is harder to put in a list. Searing totem has to either be first or after shock management, but really they should rarely conflict to much extent.

Long story short searing totem can't be your second lowest priority if it is ur highest damage per cast time ?

It sure can. Elemental priority is not about what does the most damage per cast time but what will lose you more damage if you delay it. Because it does the damage over 60 seconds, delaying searing totem to cast say a lava burst is a small relative loss of damage. You would on average lose more damage to cast searing totem and delay that lava burst. It's why Lava Burst is ahead of earthquake on priority with slightly less dpet. With lava surge and the shorter cd you'll lose more by delaying lava burst than you would EQ.

[jimmyolsen]

Apparently Earthquake with full teir16 hc works and I have tested and it does put out so decent damage, however at level 100 I fail to see it being in rotation for single target.

Once we reach higher values of mastery and haste, Earthquake will again usurp Lightning Bolt for single target at level 100. At Tier 17 Mythic, Lightning bolt is barely winning due to increased Lightning Shield charges. During Heroism + EM, Earthquake is still more valuable.

[Deleted]

Once we reach higher values of mastery and haste, Earthquake will again usurp Lightning Bolt for single target at level 100. At Tier 17 Mythic, Lightning bolt is barely winning due to increased Lightning Shield charges. During Heroism + EM, Earthquake is still more valuable.

hmm that is interesting.

[Deleted]

Why did they nerf Chain Lightning cast times? And Earthquake takes forever to cast too. By the time you placed your EQ and started your first CL cast, most mobs are already nearly dead, at Spoils Mythic for example. Ele's AOE is one of the lowest now.

[Gistwiki]

Once we reach higher values of mastery and haste, Earthquake will again usurp Lightning Bolt for single target at level 100. At Tier 17 Mythic, Lightning bolt is barely winning due to increased Lightning Shield charges. During Heroism + EM, Earthquake is still more valuable.

Yes, because in the supposed single extra tier of gear we'll be getting in WoD we'll go from 14.42% raid buffed haste to the 93.37% that EM+Heroism is providing to allow EQ to beat Lightning Bolt.

Don't forget as well that as we get more multistrike (which we value as our strongest stack) the amounts of mastery/haste required for EQ to pass lightning bolt will increase in proportion to the multistrike gained.

[Deleted]

who gems Crit & mastery, and Haste & Mastery in 5.4 (you clearly cant gem lol)....

actualy gemming +Haste+Mastery on red socket is the way to go the one who make it wrong is you by gemming full intellect and intellect mastery

i think a quick read here may help

[Deleted]

actualy gemming +Haste+Mastery on red socket is the way to go the one who make it wrong is you by gemming full intellect and intellect mastery

i think a quick read here may help

I was doing Gold Challenge Mode 5.4,you gem full intellect. Yet to change my gems since 6.0. But 5.4 you never gemmed haste & mastery maybe so in 6.0.

[Deleted]

What race?

[binkenstein]

I was doing Gold Challenge Mode 5.4,you gem full intellect. Yet to change my gems since 6.0. But 5.4 you never gemmed haste & mastery maybe so in 6.0.

No where does this say it's a 6.0.2 Challenge Mode Guide. In fact, I do believe that it's pointless do run them now as you don't get any of the rewards. Nevermind the fact that gemming Haste/Mastery in a red socket is only possible in 6.0.2 because Expertise was removed.

[desert-wind]

It sure can. Elemental priority is not about what does the most damage per cast time but what will lose you more damage if you delay it. Because it does the damage over 60 seconds, delaying searing totem to cast say a lava burst is a small relative loss of damage. You would on average lose more damage to cast searing totem and delay that lava burst. It's why Lava Burst is ahead of earthquake on priority with slightly less dpet. With lava surge and the shorter cd you'll lose more by delaying lava burst than you would EQ.

I agree on lavaburst vs eq it is such a slight gain that the opportunity loss is not marginal, plus eq is only good if the boss doesn't move, plus learning eq in that position in the priority makes no sense for WoD practice. It seems like with Flameshock / Earth Shock juggling has so much wiggle room now you can plan to drop ST on cd, or 1 second later. I guess you are more measuring the loss of having searing totem up 90% instead of 100% against the value of casting lvb at a higher priority ? I dunno, lavaburst is pretty pathetic damage...

Imagine a hypothetical scenario where ascendance was permanent and you could cast lavaburst back to back to back. If this was the case, it would still be worth casting a 20 stack fulm, and it would still be worth casting a searing totem. By prioritising lavaburst you are essentially saying that searing totem is not worth the cast against lavaburst under the assumption you might proc on the global you spend, but I would argue for each additional proc you get, by using it you are actually losing damage of the searing totem that could have been happening. I can't get behind your logic, but would be interested to see the maths / sim to convince me otherwise.

[Anzen]

Wasn't there a bug on beta at some point when Ascendance didn't go on cooldown? It could have been a nice testing platform regards the last reply here.

It was only bugged for literally one boss testing

(THE ONLY ONE I F***ING MISSED)

[Gistwiki]

I agree on lavaburst vs eq it is such a slight gain that the opportunity loss is not marginal, plus eq is only good if the boss doesn't move, plus learning eq in that position in the priority makes no sense for WoD practice. It seems like with Flameshock / Earth Shock juggling has so much wiggle room now you can plan to drop ST on cd, or 1 second later. I guess you are more measuring the loss of having searing totem up 90% instead of 100% against the value of casting lvb at a higher priority ? I dunno, lavaburst is pretty pathetic damage...

Imagine a hypothetical scenario where ascendance was permanent and you could cast lavaburst back to back to back. If this was the case, it would still be worth casting a 20 stack fulm, and it would still be worth casting a searing totem. By prioritising lavaburst you are essentially saying that searing totem is not worth the cast against lavaburst under the assumption you might proc on the global you spend, but I would argue for each additional proc you get, by using it you are actually losing damage of the searing totem that could have been happening. I can't get behind your logic, but would be interested to see the maths / sim to convince me otherwise.

The idea is the opportunity cost of dropping searing totem in place of another cast. Casting Searing totem ahead of lava burst on live loses you more damage over the course of a fight than casting that searing totem 1.5-2 seconds sooner. ~.2 Lava bursts is worth more than a single searing bolt, which makes up at 1/30 - 1/40 of the damage the totem does over the full duration. You lose less damage by casting it over lightning bolt, with its lower dpsc. Normally you're talking about delaying it only 1-2 globals, which is miniscule damage (high dpsc, low dps.)

Your hypothetical scenario removes lightning bolt, and using es/st over lava burst would now lose you the least out of all your abilities.

Bink can probably explain it better than I, but ordering dps abilities by what loses you the most rather than what individual ability has the largest dpsc is present in most priorities (using enh as an example, it's why stormstrike has been higher in the priority than lava lash for all of mop - the cooldowns line up so that you get more overall damage using the lower dpsc ability on a higher priority.)

[binkenstein]

It's a question of opportunity cost rather than what has the highest damage per cast time.

Take Lava Burst vs Earth Shock. Without Fulmination, Lava Burst wins every time. When accounting for Fulmination, you still want to cast Lava Burst first as delaying Lava Burst by a second means its effective damage is now over ~11 seconds rather than ~10. That's a ~9% DPCT reduction. Delay Earth Shock, on the other hand, and at worst you'll be wasting 3 shield charge generation opportunities, assuming you're at max charges before casting Lava Burst. The difference is that Lava Burst is a cooldown based spell, while Earth Shock is a charge based spell.

It's also worth noting that if you're at max charges when casting Lava Burst, if you're quick and use ES immediately you can still claim the 1-3 charges from Lava Burst due to the spell travel delay before the charges generate (they're on hit, not cast).

[desert-wind]

rough napkin math based on my testing character. One lava burst does 15k, one searing totem does 60k / 1 minute is 1k per second ? So one second where searing totem is not down loses you 1 k damage.

The other side of the equation is much harder though... How do you work this out ? You need to factor in the chance that lava surge procs again before you can use it (which depends on how long ago the last flame shock tick happened) you need to factor in the chance of a lava surge proccing before the cd comes up (in which cast it is to searing totems advantage. And how much damage you actually lose by delaying a lavaburst?

Really it comes down to, how often does delaying a lava surge cost you a lava surge. I mean even with LB hitting for 7k and lavaburst hitting for 15.3 when accounting for crit you're only talking about an 8k gain over the cast you would have gotten in the worst case scenario. so you would need to lose the surge proc at least 1/8th of the time if it was always LB that replaced the lavaburst cast.

I'd say if you're weighing up a surge that proc'd on the searing timer global, because there is a short time b4 the next proc is possible, searing has to be better. I'd say if you're weighing up a lavaburst coming off cd then it becomes justifiable to use the lavaburst first. I still think it would be marginal at best even if it is in lavabursts favour, and that blanketly going with searing totem would average out better results.

I don't have the time or patience to do the scenario analysis and maths to back this up. So again, if someone can show me solid maths to refute my thoughts that is fine, just saying it is because it is does not convince me however.

I can't imagine a scenario I would use lavaburst proc before a 20 stack fulm unless i had the set bonuses.

I should be clear, I agree with the premise, just not this particular scenario. I think shock management has a big enough gap now that you would always try to use either shock instead of a lightning bolt rather than instead of a better ability. Searing totem also fits into this mind set, however, ultimately when it comes down to it if you get 'caught' and ur weighing up lvb and st, st should come first.

[Deleted]

It's a question of opportunity cost rather than what has the highest damage per cast time.

Take Lava Burst vs Earth Shock. Without Fulmination, Lava Burst wins every time. When accounting for Fulmination, you still want to cast Lava Burst first as delaying Lava Burst by a second means its effective damage is now over ~11 seconds rather than ~10. That's a ~9% DPCT reduction. Delay Earth Shock, on the other hand, and at worst you'll be wasting 3 shield charge generation opportunities, assuming you're at max charges before casting Lava Burst. The difference is that Lava Burst is a cooldown based spell, while Earth Shock is a charge based spell.

It's also worth noting that if you're at max charges when casting Lava Burst, if you're quick and use ES immediately you can still claim the 1-3 charges from Lava Burst due to the spell travel delay before the charges generate (they're on hit, not cast).

can you be so kind to post the current rotation (for 6.0.2) cause seams that every1 say different think atm

[Gistwiki]

Lets take the lava burst vs searing totem comparison again, using simc. The tradeoff will be 1 searing bolt, versus (I'm including haste here, as with the current simc setup we have 31.83% raid-buffed haste which puts lava burst at a 1.51 second cast, and both searing bolt & lava burst have a 2 second cast time that is decreased in the same way by haste) 1.5/10 = 15% of a Lava Burst. I use 10 seconds as that'd be the approximate interval between lava bursts under optimal conditions if lava surge didn't exist (which heavily weights this comparison in favor of Searing bolt, but I do that on purpose to prove a point.)

The DPET of a Lava Burst is 13,802 which makes losing 15% of that ~2070.3 damage.

If you prefer to use the reduction in DPCT that Bink provided of 9%, that's still ~1242.18 damage.

The DPET of a single Searing Bolt is 1094 damage.

This means that even if Lava Surge did not exist, you'd lose more from delaying the lava burst than you would from delaying the searing totem. Add in Lava Surge, and it's a no-brainer.

[binkenstein]

can you be so kind to post the current rotation (for 6.0.2) cause seams that every1 say different think atm

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