Elemental Shaman Guide for 6.0

[desert-wind]

Lets take the lava burst vs searing totem comparison again, using simc. The tradeoff will be 1 searing bolt, versus (I'm including haste here, as with the current simc setup we have 31.83% raid-buffed haste which puts lava burst at a 1.51 second cast, and both searing bolt & lava burst have a 2 second cast time that is decreased in the same way by haste) 1.5/10 = 15% of a Lava Burst. I use 10 seconds as that'd be the approximate interval between lava bursts under optimal conditions if lava surge didn't exist (which heavily weights this comparison in favor of Searing bolt, but I do that on purpose to prove a point.)

The DPET of a Lava Burst is 13,802 which makes losing 15% of that ~2070.3 damage.

If you prefer to use the reduction in DPCT that Bink provided of 9%, that's still ~1242.18 damage.

The DPET of a single Searing Bolt is 1094 damage.

This means that even if Lava Surge did not exist, you'd lose more from delaying the lava burst than you would from delaying the searing totem. Add in Lava Surge, and it's a no-brainer.

Your maths is fine, your assumptions prior to the maths are wrong. the lack of existence of lava surge is actually in lvb's favour. The only scenarios where the lavaburst wins is where you get no proc (very rare) or you proc lava surge while lavaburst is off cd and you used searing totem. TBH the second scenario should basically never exist because if it proc'd before the searing totem was up for usage, you probably should have used it already. If it proc'd the moment the searing totem was used, u will be able to use it before the next proc regardless. Every other scenario it does not matter if the lava surge is 1 tick 2 tick or so on ticks away from the usage, as long as it does not go the full 10 seconds it is to searing totems advantage. I understand the logic of it, but not how you would go about constructing the maths problem.

I feel like you guys are making decisions based on flawed base logic.

[Gistwiki]

You'll more or less have two situations where you make a decision between searing totem and lava burst:

1) Lava Surge procs in the middle of your casting of another spell and your fire town goes down at the same time (this is assuming flame shock doesn't need to be recast.)

2) Lava Burst comes off cooldown as your fire totem goes down (again assumes flame shock doesn't need to be recast.)

In current gear, you're looking at getting a lava surge proc before the next lava burst as often as not (~48% chance assuming 3 ticks between casts, ~58% assuming 4 ticks - seen this be about right in more than a few logs.)

Assuming situation #1, there's no way to tell or bank on whether or not you get a surge proc either immediately (which can happen with em/meta often enough but I'm too tired to math more right now) or that you'll get a surge proc at all. In that situation it can go either way and there will be situations where it will be both a gain or a loss, but that casting that lava surge proc immediately is the safer of the two options. I'll look at numbers on the likelihood of both halves of this scenario tomorrow if I have the time.

Situation 2 I mathed out in the previous post.

It's clear that the difference is pretty negligible in any case though. You're talking about a 10ish dps difference out of 20k on a 5 minute fight.

[binkenstein]

I see we're getting into Ye Olde Mathe Argument. This is a situation where someone provides math to prove a point, and someone else says "Your math is wrong" but fails to provide any of their own as a counter argument. The problem is that Searing Totem needs to survive for 16+ seconds in order to be worth casting over Lava Burst in terms of damage. The 10 second value is the minimum duration for it to be worth casting over Lightning Bolt

[Deleted]

Thanks for the nice guide

I can't find it anywhere else but here's something I struggle with:

Could I use [Unleash Flame] right after I have cast [Lava Burst] and profit from the boost from [Unleashed Fury (Talent)]?
Or do I need to cast [Unleash Flame] 1st.
(Is the damage calculated before Impact, or on Impact?)

If it's the 1st then I have more seconds to profit from [Unleashed Fury (Talent)] when there are EotE procs, possibly.

[desert-wind]

I see we're getting into Ye Olde Mathe Argument. This is a situation where someone provides math to prove a point, and someone else says "Your math is wrong" but fails to provide any of their own as a counter argument. The problem is that Searing Totem needs to survive for 16+ seconds in order to be worth casting over Lava Burst in terms of damage. The 10 second value is the minimum duration for it to be worth casting over Lightning Bolt

I would assume in most general scenarios it would last 60 seconds ? Unless you're near the end of a fight or transition ? I should point out I said his maths was correct and it was his baseline assumptions before doing the maths that were incorrect. I then laid out exactly why and showed the flaws. Finally I said I don't know how to construct the maths problem with the correct arguments... or more accurately It would take me a long time to get it right because I haven't done maths day to day for quite a while and asked if he could. It looks like gist is interested by this and will take a look at it when he is able.

I think giving a priority with ST / FS / ES (15) above LvB but then caveating it with "should be used to replace LB instead of LvB where possible will yield the best dps results". The rotation has more of a 'feel' now instead of just locked in due to the loosening of shock lockdown and ST's relative strength.

Hey can one of u jog my memory real quick, what is the chance of lava surge on fs tick?

[binkenstein]

Surge chance is 20% per tick.

The problem is that you're basing your rotation priority on Damage Per Execute Time, whereas in most cases you actually need to consider Damage Per Cooldown. So while this means that Searing has the highest DPET of ~57.5k, it has nearly the lowest DPCD of 929 if you assume that the 60 second duration is a cooldown. Lava Burst, on the other hand, is 14.9k DPET but 2.4k DPCD.

Another way to think of the DPCD value is that this is the damage contribution of a particular spell to your overall DPS. It'll be a bit more complicated than that, but that's the general idea.

Now if we delay casting both by a single GCD the DPCD value for Lava Burst drops from 2.4k to 2.1k, whereas Searing drops from 929 to 910. This is why prioritizing Lava Burst over Searing is best, because it avoids wasting 300 dps vs 19 dps. Similarly, in the case of ES15 or ES20 vs Lava Burst, prioritizing Lava Burst avoids losing 300 dps, while prioritizing Earth Shock avoids losing nothing, unless you managed to waste charges by not popping ES slightly earlier (around 12+ is good, or 15+ if you have the LS Perk).

[desert-wind]

Surge chance is 20% per tick.

The problem is that you're basing your rotation priority on Damage Per Execute Time, whereas in most cases you actually need to consider Damage Per Cooldown. So while this means that Searing has the highest DPET of ~57.5k, it has nearly the lowest DPCD of 929 if you assume that the 60 second duration is a cooldown. Lava Burst, on the other hand, is 14.9k DPET but 2.4k DPCD..

Can you show me the maths to this rather than just stating it? the 2.4k that is. How often does flameshock tick ? If its 4 times within the 8 seconds I see lvb 15000 damage /8 secs*.4 + 0*.6 = 750 vs 60k/60seconds = 1k. Rough sure but that's about where it would be ? if its 3 ticks then its 1860 vs 1k. As crit and haste increase it favours searing totem more and more because crit only effects ST and haste increases the ticks between each cd and scales ST.

So that leaves us with what is the average number of ticks expected between lava bursts. (If i've missed something go ahead and correct me).

[binkenstein]

Lava Surge makes absolutely no difference to this.

[Deleted]

So...we dont use earthquake in single target..?

Sorry if stupid question but i understood it was a dps increase.

Edit: just noticed the 3rd link in your sig isnt 6.0.2

Edit 2: Found answer in your second link:

Earthquake for single target is viable at higher gear levels. Bink said on twitter (when I asked a similar question), somewhere around 200% Mastery & 30% haste. The more mastery, the less haste you need, and vice versa. I am personally doing a mastery heavy build at the moment to make up for the lack of movement DPS.

[Ardourdan]

binkenstein you've done it again. Five years I've been reading your stuff now. Incredible. Good work, and thank you!

[desert-wind]

Lava Surge makes absolutely no difference to this.

What? Of course it does... If lava surge procs inside the 8 seconds it does not matter if u used it 2 seconds before or 3 seconds before? So any scenario where you don't waste a lava surge and get an extra second of searing totem, diminishes the value of using lava surge before searing totem. You need to math out the various scenarios of the chance of procs occuring or 0 procs occuring and weight them against eachother. 20 % chance of proc = 80% chance of non proc. at 4 chances the chance of a proc at all is 1-.8^4 which is a 60% chance to proc thus 60% chance of 0 damage loss, 40% chance of 15000/8 seconds lost which is 750.

At 3 procs it is approx 49% to proc or 51% (no proc) *15000/8 which is 960. I actually made a mistake in my previous post... So it seems like ST is just plain better than LvB, as long as you only prioritise the ST over a LvB proc, not on LvB CD.

Quick messing on simcraft, putting ST unconditionally above even earth shock 15, i.e. at the very top of our priority yields a dps increase, albeit minor of around 50 dps. This is also easier to play, ST must always be down, fulm / fs juggle as priority, lavaburst and lb after that.

[binkenstein]

Please post your "improved" priorities, along with the error range for your results.

[desert-wind]

actions.single+=/searing_totem,if=!totem.fire.active I just slotted this line above or below ES (similar results) near the top of the priority list.

DPS DPS(e) DPS Error DPS Range DPR
Standard Priority
29155.5 29155.5 16.55 / 0.06% 3311 / 11.4% 44.0
29146.2 29146.2 16.18 / 0.06% 3246 / 11.1% 44.0
Searing Totem Below ES
29188.4 29188.4 16.50 / 0.06% 3305 / 11.3% 43.9
29195.1 29195.1 16.30 / 0.06% 3238 / 11.1% 43.9
Searing Totem Above ES
29182.9 29182.9 16.15 / 0.06% 3237 / 11.1% 43.9

[binkenstein]

I think the key thing is that this is the current ST line, just above LB in priority. It's quite possible that moving it ahead of Flame Shock would be sufficient, as I don't think it would be worth delaying Elemental Blast for it. May also need to put a recast at <5 sec remaining in too to see how it goes

actions.single+=/searing_totem,if=(!talent.liquid_magma.enabled&!totem.fire.active)|(talent.liquid_magma.en abled&pet.searing_totem.remains<=20&!pet.fire_elemental_totem.active&!buff.liquid_magma.up )

[desert-wind]

talent.liquid_magma.enabled&pet.searing_totem.remains<=20&!pet.fire_elemental_totem.active &!buff.liquid_magma.up I don't understand what this line does? It seems like you replace searing totem when theres < 20 seconds left and ur about to magma ? But magma lasts 10 seconds so seems silly?

Neway I'll throw a sim with ST lower down and see if you see the same increase.

[Deleted]

Echo of the Elements is a DPS loss.

The way I see it (and im by no means a theory crafter) is that during your ascendance (your main burst phase) echo is pretty much pointless. This is what's drawing me toward EM. Would that be correct?

Potential warlock rerolling to shammy for WoD so excuse me if I'm making mistakes here

- - - Updated - - -

Whilst I can't dispute anything you're saying in the video (and alot of it you're even admitting is pure opinion), I found this a little painful to listen to what with the weird watership down style music in the background and your very stumblebum unsure of yourself approach to giving the information.

I'm sure you'll get the hang of these vids in the end but I came away feeling more confused about what's best and uncertain as to whether you (or anyone in the ele community) is really sure as to what's best right now ended up stopping half way. I'll wait until there's a more solid guide out there.

Also off topic. There is absolutely no way I'm going to be able to keybind everything from the spellbook now >.< looks like there'll be a couple of binds for switching totems etc on a fight to fight basis.

[Deleted]

Says the level 578ilevel boy who couldn't clear SoO heroic or even Thok HC, used mining and herbing proffessions in 5.4 raiding (pro stats that stamina and healing ability tho..) who gems Crit & mastery, and Haste & Mastery in 5.4 (you clearly cant gem lol).... but yet criticises everything yet clearly stated in video not all will be 100% correct just yet and obviously did not watch all of it. You could at least make it constructive criticism to make a point that I can reflect on and see if you are right or wrong and if I am wrong I can correct it later, but fact is you talk out of your 'arse'.

I play resto, and I regemmed all my gear post-6.0 for resto.

FACT is that you're the one who made a so-called guide with sub-par info.

Stay small.

PS. even my profs were rerolled post-6.0, since we lost the combat bonuses and I want to make money gathering in WoD, as I have alts that can take care of my crafting needs.

[Deleted]

So what are we rerolling now? :^)

[Deleted]

Is there a spreadsheet for Ele like this one for Hunter?

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...KsE/edit#gid=0