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  1. #381
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jugzilla View Post
    Don't you consider anyone who isn't a socialist to be stupid? Gives you a bit of latitude I'd say.
    I consider anyone right of Obama to be stupid, actually.

    I don't think you know what demagoguery means by the way.
    Pandering to populism rather than making a rational argument. I'm aware of what it means.


    [Infracted]
    Last edited by Endus; 2014-11-14 at 04:18 AM.
    This website is not a place of honor. No highly esteemed deed is commemorated here. Nothing valued is here. What is here is dangerous and repulsive to us. The danger is in a particular location. The danger is still present in your time as it was in ours.

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  2. #382
    Pandaren Monk jugzilla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    I consider anyone right of Obama to be stupid, actually.
    Well, isn't that big of you. It was interesting talking to you. I have to say, none of your superior intellect rubbed off on me, but I think i coughed up a little snark a minute ago. Maybe that's just my body rejecting your superior left of Obama intellect though.

  3. #383
    Quote Originally Posted by jugzilla View Post
    I hope everyone here realizes this, it is almost so obvious to be missed, the stupid people Gruber is talking about are the folks here still defending Obamacare.

    Unless THOSE people are actually really smart people, tricking the other stupid democrat voters.


    [Infracted]

    LOL, Endus...that was fast. And how is this trolling? I am simply pointing out that Gruber wasn't even insulting people like me who were against Obamacare. He was insulting people like you, not people like me. That is a fact that needs to be brought up here.
    You called people stupid and you're wondering why you got infracted...

  4. #384
    Pandaren Monk jugzilla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    You called people stupid and you're wondering why you got infracted...
    *sigh*

    I didn't call anyone stupid. Gruber did. Gruber called people like YOU a stupid American voter. He wasn't talking about me. Their lies and fraudalent devices didn't ever get past 'ol Jugz.

  5. #385
    Quote Originally Posted by jugzilla View Post
    *sigh*

    I didn't call anyone stupid. Gruber did. Gruber called YOU a stupid American voter. He wasn't talking about me.
    whatever d00d.

  6. #386
    Quote Originally Posted by jugzilla View Post
    [Infracted]

    LOL, Endus...that was fast.
    No kidding. The sophistry required to defend that bias is remarkable. I'd be a busy motherfucker if I reported everything more offensive than that.

  7. #387
    The american voter is demonstrably stupid, so they were right on that at least, if not the particular usage for it.

    Infracted
    Last edited by Kasierith; 2014-11-15 at 05:18 AM.

  8. #388
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Honestly though we've really come full circle on the Obamacare hysteria with conservative complaining about lies to get the bill passed.
    That's the whole point of this thread: the only weapon really being used against obamacare is all the deception and lying liberals did. Everything would be much better off for obamacare if they hadn't done that.

  9. #389
    Herald of the Titans chrisberb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khoranth View Post
    That's the whole point of this thread: the only weapon really being used against obamacare is all the deception and lying liberals did. Everything would be much better off for obamacare if they hadn't done that.
    If someone wanted to pass a bill that stated "we're going to have healthy people pay into a system that pays out to sick people", like Gruber said, it wouldn't pass. And that's the entire definition of the damn insurance industry. The difference is, it would somehow get spun as Socialism / communism. I'm willing to be when the Social Security act passed, they didn't explain it as "we're gonna have young able bodied people pay a percentage of their income into a system so that old retired people can get paychecks".
    The irony that people are so against political correctness are skewering this guy for not being politically correct but being completely honest...is funny.
    Lots of legislation that gets passed through our system is disguised, and that's true for both parties, for a long time.

  10. #390
    Quote Originally Posted by chrisberb View Post
    If someone wanted to pass a bill that stated "we're going to have healthy people pay into a system that pays out to sick people", like Gruber said, it wouldn't pass. And that's the entire definition of the damn insurance industry. The difference is, it would somehow get spun as Socialism / communism. I'm willing to be when the Social Security act passed, they didn't explain it as "we're gonna have young able bodied people pay a percentage of their income into a system so that old retired people can get paychecks".
    The irony that people are so against political correctness are skewering this guy for not being politically correct but being completely honest...is funny.
    Lots of legislation that gets passed through our system is disguised, and that's true for both parties, for a long time.
    First off: obamacare is not just some random piece of legislation. It is far more important than the typical bill that gets passed. Lumping it in with every other random bill is a complete waste of your breath.

    Second: Obamacare would have passed if they had been open and honest about it. The majority of American people would support paying a little bit more to help millions of people who work, but cant quite afford good health care.

  11. #391
    Scarab Lord Naxere's Avatar
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    Damage control: http://reason.com/blog/2014/11/13/na...nt-know-who-jo

    When Democratic House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi was asked today for comment about MIT professor Jonathan Gruber's recent remarks that "lack of transparency" and "the stupidity of the American voter" were critical to helping pass Obamacare, she responded briskly: "I don't know who he is. He didn't help write our bill."

    Did Gruber help write the Affordable Care Act? According to a 2012 article in The New York Times, he did: After Mr. Gruber helped the administration put together the basic principles of the proposal, the White House lent him to Capitol Hill to help Congressional staff members draft the specifics of the legislation.

    As for whether Pelosi's claim to not know who he is, well, she knew who he was November of 2009, and said so at a press conference. The Washington Post dug up a transcript of Pelosi citing Gruber's work by name in support of Obamacare. Here's the relevant section:

    "I don't know if you have seen Jonathan Gruber of MIT's analysis of what the comparison is to the status quo versus what will happen in our bill for those who seek insurance within the exchange."

    In addition, Pelosi's office touted Gruber's analysis of the law's premiums on the House Speaker's website. For that matter, so did the White House. There's just no question that Gruber was closely involved with the creation of the law, and widely cited as an authority on how it would work.
    Quote Originally Posted by nôrps View Post
    I just think you retards are starting to get ridiculous with your childish language.

  12. #392
    Legendary! TZucchini's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Naxere View Post
    I wonder how many people, in total, "helped write the affordable care act."

    Hundreds? Thousands?
    Eat yo vegetables

  13. #393
    Scarab Lord Naxere's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PRE 9-11 View Post
    I wonder how many people, in total, "helped write the affordable care act."

    Hundreds? Thousands?
    Who cares? Them coming out now and trying to discredit this guy, who they featured prominently when writing it, is just some major spin. Giving Baghdad Bob a run for his money.
    Quote Originally Posted by nôrps View Post
    I just think you retards are starting to get ridiculous with your childish language.

  14. #394
    Scarab Lord Espe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khoranth View Post
    Second: Obamacare would have passed if they had been open and honest about it. The majority of American people would support paying a little bit more to help millions of people who work, but cant quite afford good health care.
    Maybe the majority, certainly not "pull themselves up by their bootstraps" conservatives.
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there always has been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that “my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge." - Isaac Asimov

  15. #395
    Quote Originally Posted by Khoranth View Post
    First off: obamacare is not just some random piece of legislation. It is far more important than the typical bill that gets passed. Lumping it in with every other random bill is a complete waste of your breath.

    Second: Obamacare would have passed if they had been open and honest about it. The majority of American people would support paying a little bit more to help millions of people who work, but cant quite afford good health care.
    Considering 1/3rd of the country doesn't even pay income tax, I don't doubt that the majority would disagree.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sting View Post
    I'm done here, why did I actually bother to give a serious reply on page 1 I guess this is a perfect example of why discussions on the internet are so fucking pointless
    Quote Originally Posted by The Iron Fist View Post
    Overthrowing governments is far different than trying to influence a population

  16. #396
    Quote Originally Posted by jugzilla View Post
    I hope everyone here realizes this, it is almost so obvious to be missed, the stupid people Gruber is talking about are the folks here still defending Obamacare.

    Unless THOSE people are actually really smart people, tricking the other stupid democrat voters.
    No, he is calling people stupid, who would support the same bill if CBO declared it a mandate, but wouldn't if it was a tax. He is calling people stupid, who's support of the bill relies solely on it not being a tax. It's clearly stated in the OP video...
    As above, so below.
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    Don’t click random links on forums.

  17. #397
    Legendary! TZucchini's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Naxere View Post
    Who cares? Them coming out now and trying to discredit this guy, who they featured prominently when writing it, is just some major spin. Giving Baghdad Bob a run for his money.
    You want to discuss some major spin? How about the phrase "featured prominently," or "Obamacare architect."

    This guy wasn't the architect nor the face of Obamacare. He had a hand in writing the bill. As did several hundred/thousand people. Pelosi is trying to distance herself from him, lying in the process...shocker. I just don't understand the hoopla over this. Anyone that wanted to know what was in the bill was perfectly capable of doing so. #benghzigate #irsScandal
    Eat yo vegetables

  18. #398
    Quote Originally Posted by PRE 9-11 View Post
    I just don't understand the hoopla over this. Anyone that wanted to know what was in the bill was perfectly capable of doing so. #benghzigate #irsScandal
    We even had a several hundred page thread on the issue at the time.

    I'm sure that opponents of the bill who told people about death panels, socialized care, rationing care, nuclear option, ramming the bill through and long lines for treatment, thought the American voter was brilliant. Blame the guy for stating what rhetoric on both sides relies on... Voters who would vote yes on a bill that CBO calls a mandate, but would oppose the same identical bill if it was called a tax, are basing their support on semantics, which is stupid.
    As above, so below.
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    Don’t click random links on forums.

  19. #399
    Considering that Congress has passed most taxes through as "mandates" or some other garbage they make up, it's not new to realize that they intentionally manipulate the citizens through avoiding buzzwords and the like.

    Print money? Nahhh. Quantitative easing!
    Quote Originally Posted by Sting View Post
    I'm done here, why did I actually bother to give a serious reply on page 1 I guess this is a perfect example of why discussions on the internet are so fucking pointless
    Quote Originally Posted by The Iron Fist View Post
    Overthrowing governments is far different than trying to influence a population

  20. #400
    Quote Originally Posted by Khoranth View Post
    Second: Obamacare would have passed if they had been open and honest about it. The majority of American people would support paying a little bit more to help millions of people who work, but cant quite afford good health care.
    There is a reason why the bill received more support when called ACA, than when called Obamacare. It had a lot less to do with the administration lying, as much as the opposition...

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Aeno View Post
    Considering that Congress has passed most taxes through as "mandates" or some other garbage they make up, it's not new to realize that they intentionally manipulate the citizens through avoiding buzzwords and the like.

    Print money? Nahhh. Quantitative easing!
    Hinging support on changing the name, but not content, makes one stupid... See marriage debate as another example...
    As above, so below.
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    Don’t click random links on forums.

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