1. #3161
    Quote Originally Posted by Lazel View Post
    I run HS because of the debuff, adds get DESTROYED in my guild , double warrior double warlock you don't even get to aoe them. HA/seraphim for kromog , have 3x logs up on WCL , can go check it if you want ^^
    Makes sense, I didn't even think about the debuff doing the majority of the damage.

    When we were progressing (on heroic, I know lol) our problems were largely due to tanks getting bursted down by adds during the split or the recovery after the second split, so once I swapped over to Seraphim so I could burst surv for those periods it felt a little smoother.

    Now that we're a bit better on adds and it's on farm, Holy Shield for the debuff makes a lot of sense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Astur View Post
    Kromog is a perfect fight for HA. Long periods of high sustained damage with downtime means HA is amazing.
    Good point, will swap over to HA for attempts tonight.

    We are 3 tanking, which I assume makes HA/Sera even better as you can predict when you will be taking high damage and it will be happening less often, but any extra feedback on that from anyone who has done it? Anything specific which helped or hindered?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ShuraEU View Post
    You need 3 followers with an itemlevel above 660 to have the BRF NM Mission Show.
    Although if you are close to getting the mythic mission (21 heroic kills or whatever) it's better to wait until you have enough kills then get your followers to 660.

    For instance, one of the groups in my guild will have enough for Mythic mission next week so they aren't levelling their followers til then otherwise they get a heroic cache and no mythic for 2 weeks.

  2. #3162
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Kektonic View Post
    God dammit I love you.

    #nohomo

    #okaysortofhomo
    Dude, everyone in this thread is pink and sparkles. We're all #prettyhomo by any stereotype's standards.

    Real talk on caches, though - I'm still of the opinion that what they really need is the Old Yeller treatment; preferably with a 12-gauge shotgun - but since they seem insistent on keeping them in the game, could they at least make them require a kill OF THE ACTUAL BOSS before its loot table is available to the cache?

    Like, fuck me, right, but does it seem over-the-top retarded to anyone else that people are getting Mythic Warforged + Socket Blackhand trinkets when 2 motherfucking guilds in the entire world have even killed him at this point? I can't help but feel like they really done stepped on their dicks with that one.

  3. #3163
    Quote Originally Posted by PraisetheSun View Post
    Real talk on caches, though - I'm still of the opinion that what they really need is the Old Yeller treatment; preferably with a 12-gauge shotgun - but since they seem insistent on keeping them in the game, could they at least make them require a kill OF THE ACTUAL BOSS before its loot table is available to the cache?

    Like, fuck me, right, but does it seem over-the-top retarded to anyone else that people are getting Mythic Warforged + Socket Blackhand trinkets when 2 motherfucking guilds in the entire world have even killed him at this point? I can't help but feel like they really done stepped on their dicks with that one.
    Yeah I've never understood the logic of giving you loot beyond the level you are clearing at. Like sure, it increases your chance of getting something useful and thus decreases the chance you will whine to Blizzard about it (lol not really) but it devalues the entire concept of loot as a whole. I honestly would prefer if all raid loot stayed in raids, and caches (if they needed to be included at all) were for LFR or world boss loot or extra coins or something.

    Of course this would be ignoring the real reason caches exist, to force everyone to utilise their garrison and keep progressing with it for the entire expansion - which is how they justify the amount of work that went into the content for it.

    But yeah, any time they are giving away raid loot for free I'm going to be pretty upset. It might not be the reason I raid, but the exclusivity it gives is a major part of raiding identity.
    Last edited by Kanadei; 2015-02-26 at 05:28 AM.

  4. #3164
    Quote Originally Posted by Kanadei View Post
    Yeah I've never understood the logic of giving you loot beyond the level you are clearing at. Like sure, it increases your chance of getting something useful and thus decreases the chance you will whine to Blizzard about it (lol not really) but it devalues the entire concept of loot as a whole. I honestly would prefer if all raid loot stayed in raids, and caches (if they needed to be included at all) were for LFR or world boss loot or extra coins or something.

    Of course this would be ignoring the real reason caches exist, to force everyone to utilise their garrison and keep progressing with it for the entire expansion - which is how they justify the amount of work that went into the content for it.

    But yeah, any time they are giving away raid loot for free I'm going to be pretty upset. It might not be the reason I raid, but the exclusivity it gives is a major part of raiding identity.
    Considering the only reason I was able to get any gear at this point was from starting my garrison when I jumped from my boosted 90 pally to my old main pally was from caches and garrison missions. Nowadays nobody gives you a chance if you dont have gear. You're only looking at it from a "I'm in a progression guild we like each other and we kill things and I get loot a fair amount of the time like everyone else" Theres plenty of players who are trying to get into the hardcore scene and dont have much gear either because A) their guilds or upgs are dogshit or B) they cant win rolls/can't get any drops. Not to mention when trying to get into guilds they apply for and get turned down due to their gear not being high enough, it creates the catch 22 problem of dont have enough ilvl to raid mythic, can't get the gear for mythic because can't get into raids. Obviously yes, you don't need mythic gear to raid mythic, but many mythich progression guilds, if not all, at this point expect their applicants to have some mythic pieces now. Considering its one piece every two weeks, and the fact that it cannot drop weapons I think its pretty fair. If it was daily or weekly I'd disagree but every 2, 2 1/2, 3 weeks is fine by me.
    Last edited by Candlemaster; 2015-02-26 at 06:39 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Blznsmri View Post
    Quit shoving your opinion down other peoples throats.

    You're worse than Street Corner Baptists...

  5. #3165
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by PraisetheSun View Post
    (For those who wish to know, all I have gotten this expac from caches is 3 pairs of Mosscrusher Sabatons )
    Glad to see I'm not the only person cursed with this shit. It's even happening to my alt; I got 2 pairs of normal, and a pair of heroic. Like dafuq?

  6. #3166
    got the mythc mastery+ BA cloak, with no upgrates. this gave me the reason to thing about going straight mastery again with gems and enchants + the new EmpSeals. this has to give me more survivability right? i would get 375 more mastery wich is 3,4%. is it worth it? or stick to Holy Shield when going for more survivability?
    13/13

    Monk

  7. #3167
    Quote Originally Posted by Lazel View Post
    No, you don't change gemming & enchants based on what gear you get. Also just because you get more mastery doesn't mean it will make holy shield better than seraphim ( emps is not even a viable choice as of now )

    Holy shield gets better with mastery, true , but you can't and won't sacrifice haste in order to gain more mastery thus more block and more effective HS.

    We're back to mop stat priority ( haste> mastery> crit ) where having more uptime on AM is more important than stronger AM.

    hmmm i just saw sloot and treckie took emp seals (maybe for testing?) sloot even got mastery enchants+gems now. maybe for blackhand only?
    13/13

    Monk

  8. #3168
    Actually, Theck has shown in his blog that EmpS is an alternative to the other two choices, both in terms of DPS and TMI, even if you stay in SoR the whole time. It probably comes down a lot to personal preference and fight mechanics what level 100 talent to choose.

  9. #3169
    Was inspecting my SotR tooltip to see if the patch had updated it. It's showing 25% damage reduction no matter how much mastery I have. This just a tooltip or addon error on my end?

  10. #3170
    Quote Originally Posted by siccora View Post
    hmmm i just saw sloot and treckie took emp seals (maybe for testing?) sloot even got mastery enchants+gems now. maybe for blackhand only?
    he's using mastery gems and enchants because EMPS puts you well over the 50% haste cap depending on your gear. after having played around with it i think EMPS is actually really solid, sitting in SoR mainly and swapping to insight whenever i have a free GCD, and back to righteousness whenever i have another free GCD. uther's insight kind of blows so i put pretty low priority on it. not sure if itll beat sera tho, it's anywhere from a 20-30% increase in sotr uptime from my testing but im only 678.

  11. #3171
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blargenshmeh View Post
    it's anywhere from a 20-30% increase in sotr uptime from my testing but im only 678.
    Yeah, sounds about right. I looked into yesterday's logs, I had 71% ShotR uptime on Flamebender with EmpS/DP, and about 50% uptime ShoR with 45% uptime on Seraphim with DP on Beastlord (I'm not tanking adds so there should be no extra GC procs).
    Lethora, 120 Protection Paladin, Shadowsong-EU

  12. #3172
    Tried EmpS myself yesterday, and I have a few things in mind.

    1. Being at 50% haste makes your tanking really dynamic. Feels good to not have huge gap in SotR in your rotation (ofc it's also due to not having to spend 5HP every 30sec for Sera)
    2. Emp SoI is fucking useless. On Heroic Flamebender and Kromogg it counted as 6% of my total healing. And keep in mind that's not useful healing. That's a "you're at 10% hp and I heal you for 14,000" healing that won't save your life.
    3. If they want that talent to be competitive AND NOT STUPIDLY INFURIATING to play, they need to take Seals off the GCD. Having 50% haste means 3sec CS/Judgement ; having to switch Seals twice every 30sec (SoR -> SoI, Judgement -> SoR), provided you want that useless EmpSoI buff, is totally counter-productive. You're trading other talents to get more Haste, but that talent prevents you from using 100% of your Haste because you have to use GCDs to switch between Seals...
    4. Off-GCD Seals + needs a buff to AP (something like +15% AP for every active EmpS buff ?)
    5. I had never played with EmpS before, and that circle around you, plus purple book / golden crown are fucking sexy <3
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  13. #3173
    Deleted
    I'd been testing EmpS SW myself after the patch on dummies, and Theck's post confirms my suspicions. It's got the added benefit of making HS even stronger on fights like Flamebender since we can now largely itemize for Mastery.

    BRB finding somewhere to drop 500 haste...

    Edit: Nvm need to drop 1.1k haste lmfao
    Last edited by mmoc312bb4353b; 2015-02-26 at 10:30 AM.

  14. #3174
    So... What's the deal now, for bigger DPS, or best spec overall ? I have TTT and EAE, both in Heroic version (and also mythic pillar). Should I stick with HA/Sera & DP/Sera, or trying some weird stuff with ES/DP-SW ?

  15. #3175
    Quote Originally Posted by PraisetheSun View Post
    I'd been testing EmpS SW myself after the patch on dummies, and Theck's post confirms my suspicions. It's got the added benefit of making HS even stronger on fights like Flamebender since we can now largely itemize for Mastery.
    I'm also very tempted to take that path and play ES/SW or ES/HA and swap for HS for Furnace/Toghar... Makes itemization much more similar and seems to go the way Blizzard wants to go (ditch Sera and make us play either EmpS or HS).

    Problem with EmpS is you basically have to drive yourself crazy and seal-dance with SoI for a VERY poor survability gain. But I kinda liked our rotation's overall feeling yesterday with the +20% from SoR. It felt way less surprising damage-wise than a Sera rotation where you have ~10sec without any SotR activation (5HP build-up for Sera + 3-5HP for SotRs) and risk getting 200k hits from the boss.


    Edit: A downtime of playing EmpS is that we also don't benefit from BloodLust as much as the other specs. It basically just adds a few ticks of SS and more melee swings...
    Last edited by Kortiah; 2015-02-26 at 11:01 AM.
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  16. #3176
    Deleted
    You don't have to ever swap into SoI for EmpS to still come out ahead - it's still roughly a 20k TMI decrease from playing Sera and simply sitting in SoR like most of us were doing before.

    With regards to your comment on Sera thought that point is completely moot since you should never have been taking unmitigated hits when playing Sera if you were doing it correctly - bar exactly 1 second of non-coverage that should be completely irrelevant.
    Last edited by mmoc312bb4353b; 2015-02-26 at 11:18 AM.

  17. #3177
    Quote Originally Posted by PraisetheSun View Post
    Can all you assholes with your Mythic Blast Furnace Doors just go start your own thread, please? I've got so much built-up salt about caches this expac that if I laid on one side of the Hoover Dam it'd burst due to the salt gradient, and that motherfucker is a concrete dam, not a semi-permeable membrane.

    (For those who wish to know, all I have gotten this expac from caches is 3 pairs of Mosscrusher Sabatons )
    Completely, completely agree.

    Sorry to be one of those guys, but what's the deal on EmpS now? I've been so busy with work and life that I literally haven't logged on all week. I'd like EmpS to be good, so I'm hoping it is.

    I miss raiding. :/

  18. #3178
    Quote Originally Posted by PraisetheSun View Post
    With regards to your comment on Sera thought that point is completely moot since you should never have been taking unmitigated hits when playing Sera if you were doing it correctly - bar exactly 1 second of non-coverage that should be completely irrelevant.
    I was talking more about SotR uptime, rather than the usual Seraphim/DProt/Sera/DProt/... Even with Sera/DProt active, it's not unusual to be hit very hard during the Sera build-up. I get your point though.

    I have no idea where you saw that 20k TMI decrease from switching to EmpS though. Numbers on Theck's blog according to his simulations are as follow:


    Eliminating the rest and just taking into account the SoR simulations, that gives us :

    EmpS_SW = 138k TMI
    Sera_SW = 142k TMI

    Maybe you got that from a EmpS_SW vs. Sera_HA comparison? That I could understand since Sera_SW is quite unusual.
    Last edited by Kortiah; 2015-02-26 at 11:51 AM.
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  19. #3179
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Kortiah View Post
    I was talking more about SotR uptime, rather than the usual Seraphim/DProt/Sera/DProt/... Even with Sera/DProt active, it's not unusual to be hit very hard during the Sera build-up. I get your point though.

    I have no idea where you saw that 20k TMI decrease from switching to EmpS though. Numbers on Theck's blog according to his simulations are as follow:


    Eliminating the rest and just taking into account the SoR simulations, that gives us :

    EmpS_SW = 138k TMI
    Sera_SW = 142k TMI

    Maybe you got that from a EmpS_SW vs. Sera_HA comparison? That I could understand since Sera_SW is quite unusual.
    I play Sera SW all the time. I hate DP with a fiery passion in low-haste situations, and HA doesn't always work well with the particular trinket setups I use. Effectively, for me, on a fight like Gruul, EmpS SW is a 20k TMI decrease from what I usually play with, and just sitting in SoR is a 12k TMI decrease.

  20. #3180
    Quote Originally Posted by PraisetheSun View Post
    I play Sera SW all the time. I hate DP with a fiery passion in low-haste situations, and HA doesn't always work well with the particular trinket setups I use. Effectively, for me, on a fight like Gruul, EmpS SW is a 20k TMI decrease from what I usually play with, and just sitting in SoR is a 12k TMI decrease.
    Fair enough. Maybe look for your EmpS DP TMI then ? Since you'll be haste-capped

    I was SW too when just dinged 100 and loved the "big crits lulz" and steady generation. And loathe RNG talents as much as everyone. 20sec SotR in the middle of the fight ? Cool. Getting your ass wrecked and praying for a proc? Well too bad I don't feel like it.
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