1. #3341
    We actually just pulled Gruul this week for about 2 hours on mythic and did 3 grps two tanks but we soaked it for 4 slices.....gg. Wil def swap to 3 slices this week to make tanking a bit less OMFG 5 hp left. But overall it wasnt a complex fight with 3 grps i thought it made the petrify mechanic a non factor. We did kill it too.

    I never found the actual melees to put me in danger tho howcome you dont recommend BoP + Taunt for one of the slices in place of AD, i have trouble using AD because of the follow up fire hit.

  2. #3342
    Regarding Oregorger & Acid Torrent: Note that Divine Shield and Hand of Protection both work on it, causing it to deal the minimum damage value. And thanks to Unbreakable Spirit, you can bubble one AT every phase. On our mythic kill, we each did a sequence of (Bubble, HA+Sera+Sac, DP+GAnK+Sac) for the first round and (HoP, HA+Sera+Sac, Bubble) for the second round. AD+SotR+Sac if we got a fourth, usually (or external BoP). Last round we sort of freestyled, but was some combination of (bubble, GAnK, AD+DP+Sac).

    (Note we have two paladin tanks and a ret and holy with Clemency for a stupid number of hands to throw around, YMMV).

  3. #3343
    Has anyone else been healing exorbitantly high? Usually, whenever I tank bosses, I vary from 15k-30k in HPS.

    http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/combat...ort/49#v=1,d=1

    For example, on Operator Thogar Heroic, I pulled 27k HPS, and my GM as a Prot Pally pulled significantly less.

    Hold your tongue if you think I'm sacrificing mitigation for HPS, I had a better mitigation ranking than my GM, and took less damage. http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/combat...ort/49#v=0,d=2

    Is this just me being awesome, or is my GM doing something wrong here?

  4. #3344
    Quote Originally Posted by cujoe View Post
    Edit: stupid me, didn't add healers to the profile, so all health triggers can't work because health is always in the minus
    I usually add a healing raid event to help correct for such things:

    Code:
    raid_events+=/heal,cooldown=10,to_pct=90
    That said, I think using an incoming_damage conditional is better than a health.pct conditional here. We're trying to model stochastic damage patterns, so to really get optimal TMI gain you want to use that massive heal to offset a period of large incoming_damage, regardless of what your actual health percent is at the time of the spike. A health.pct conditional would make more sense if we were actually counting deaths.

    One thought for improvement is to do something like incoming_damage_4500ms>health.max*0.8 and fool around with the window and health threshold until you get better results. Remember that TMI is calculated over a 6-second window by default, so you're trying to optimize around that window.

    Firing off a heal based on taking ~30% of your health in damage in a single 1.5-second period will probably tend towards using WoG too frequently (and thus at lower Bastion stacks), and in cases where it wasn't needed (ex: unmitigated hit, dodge, parry, parry). My guess is that a longer window and higher threshold will reserve it for use in the cases where it really matters, like a string of 3-4 hits in a row.

  5. #3345
    Quote Originally Posted by MFDOOM View Post
    Has anyone else been healing exorbitantly high? Usually, whenever I tank bosses, I vary from 15k-30k in HPS.

    http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/combat...ort/49#v=1,d=1

    For example, on Operator Thogar Heroic, I pulled 27k HPS, and my GM as a Prot Pally pulled significantly less.

    Hold your tongue if you think I'm sacrificing mitigation for HPS, I had a better mitigation ranking than my GM, and took less damage. http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/combat...ort/49#v=0,d=2

    Is this just me being awesome, or is my GM doing something wrong here?
    Has to do with Holy Shield and spell damage, it ends up being counted as an absorb which made up 26% of your "healing" on the Thogar fight.

    Also your GM isn't using SoI or SS, the first contributes to his lower healing, the second is an unforgivable mistake.

  6. #3346
    Hey guys! I have been trying to find out some stuff about trinkets, but not finding alot. Atm i got 676 Pol's, 665 battering, 670 evergaze and 680 table of turnbuckle.
    What would be like the standard two to use? and any trinket combination that is good for some bosses? i mainly play with seraphim so you guys know, any help appreciated!

  7. #3347
    Quote Originally Posted by Sleivert View Post
    Hey guys! I have been trying to find out some stuff about trinkets, but not finding alot. Atm i got 676 Pol's, 665 battering, 670 evergaze and 680 table of turnbuckle.
    What would be like the standard two to use? and any trinket combination that is good for some bosses? i mainly play with seraphim so you guys know, any help appreciated!
    Sorry to say but you probably didn't look very far... That's a recurring question, every 3 or 4 pages there's someone asking that... And Theck did very good simulation on both the DPS and TMI value of each trinket you can get atm in raids.

    Seeing yours I'd say Pol's+Evergaze. Battering is pretty shit except if you need loads of HP somehow, and Pol's+TTT means 2 on-use trinket = no-no.
    Signatures in 2018 LUL

  8. #3348
    Quote Originally Posted by Kortiah View Post
    Sorry to say but you probably didn't look very far... That's a recurring question, every 3 or 4 pages there's someone asking that... And Theck did very good simulation on both the DPS and TMI value of each trinket you can get atm in raids.

    Seeing yours I'd say Pol's+Evergaze. Battering is pretty shit except if you need loads of HP somehow, and Pol's+TTT means 2 on-use trinket = no-no.
    Thanks man, sorry, did not check well enough i guess, forgot about search function etc. will try to find thouse sims by Theck

  9. #3349
    Quote Originally Posted by Sleivert View Post
    Thanks man, sorry, did not check well enough i guess, forgot about search function etc. will try to find thouse sims by Theck
    They were 15 pages back, if you haven't found them yet here is a link Page 169. There is another sim solely for single trinket dps at the bottom of that page.

  10. #3350
    Quote Originally Posted by Lifire View Post
    I find we are over explaining Gruul. We approached in the Paragon method as well as a few other guilds who did it similarily, no point using 2 tanks, use 3 and have them min max dps (Harsh Words/Breath of Sindragosa etc)
    I know this is probably just an oversight, but in the interests of not confusing people coming into the thread, let's remember that Harsh Words is no longer a thing for us.

    I miss it dearly, don't get me wrong, but I don't think we are getting it back any time soon.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kortiah View Post
    Sorry to say but you probably didn't look very far... That's a recurring question, every 3 or 4 pages there's someone asking that... And Theck did very good simulation on both the DPS and TMI value of each trinket you can get atm in raids.

    Seeing yours I'd say Pol's+Evergaze. Battering is pretty shit except if you need loads of HP somehow, and Pol's+TTT means 2 on-use trinket = no-no.
    TTT and EAE work very well together though, as you can guarantee EAE will proc on pull, pair it with armor pot and TTT and HA/Sera and absolutely destroy threat/dps for the next 30 seconds.

    I mean, I don't usually use them together for progression as I find my health pool is very low, but for farm or on bosses where there isn't as much tank damage, they are a pretty god-tier combo.

  11. #3351
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by PraisetheSun View Post
    Speaking of bugs, I've just run into this bizarre situation on Mar'gok where I have Holy Shield talented but don't seem to be benefiting from it. My percentage of blocked attacks is roughly as you would expect without Holy Shield, and Holy Shield simply isn't triggering.
    Can confirm this aswell, doesnt do any damage or block any more then usual

  12. #3352
    Quote Originally Posted by Wymarc View Post
    Can confirm this aswell, doesnt do any damage or block any more then usual
    On this specific fight or in general?

  13. #3353
    Quote Originally Posted by Taven View Post
    On this specific fight or in general?
    I'd go out on a limb and assume that if Holy Shield was broken completely, Blizzard would have noticed by now.

    Seems much more likely that it's a Mar'gok issue.

  14. #3354
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Kanadei View Post
    I'd go out on a limb and assume that if Holy Shield was broken completely, Blizzard would have noticed by now.

    Seems much more likely that it's a Mar'gok issue.
    It seems to fix itself if you un-talent it, then re-talent it. Fuck me if I know what's causing it in the first place, though.

    Edit: Anybody notice Reaver damage seeming fucky lately, btw? Got smacked casually for almost 300k through Hand of Sac with only one stack of his debuff last reset, which seems just a tad bit high (like 2x what it should be, honestly) from what I remember.
    Last edited by mmoc312bb4353b; 2015-03-04 at 03:19 AM.

  15. #3355
    Did anyone ever do a trinket comparison for 680 Knight's Badge? I know Theck said ~10 pages back he had only done the 670 one, I'd love to see how it matches up to the mythic trinkets.
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  16. #3356
    Quote Originally Posted by Theck View Post
    One thought for improvement is to do something like incoming_damage_4500ms>health.max*0.8 and fool around with the window and health threshold until you get better results. Remember that TMI is calculated over a 6-second window by default, so you're trying to optimize around that window.

    Firing off a heal based on taking ~30% of your health in damage in a single 1.5-second period will probably tend towards using WoG too frequently (and thus at lower Bastion stacks), and in cases where it wasn't needed (ex: unmitigated hit, dodge, parry, parry). My guess is that a longer window and higher threshold will reserve it for use in the cases where it really matters, like a string of 3-4 hits in a row.
    Thank you for your input Theck.

    I have added this line to the top of the APL:

    actions+=/word_of_glory,if=(holy_power>=3)&(incoming_damage_4.5s>=health.max*X)

    and have done sims for different speccs as a function of X. I used the T17M prot standard profile of Simcraft version 603-27 with a T17M TMI standard boss. Here are the results:



    As one can see, a moderate use of WoG after a period of large damage intake (optimally after a damage spike of 70% of max health in a 4.5s window) tends to improve the TMI in all tested cases. The largest improvement is seen in case of Sera_DP where the TMI changes by 7% for X=0.7 from 124.5k (no WoG) to 115.7k, which comes with a slight DPS tradeoff of about 4%. Using WoG with X=0.6 can improve TMI further in some cases, but for values of X > 0.7 the DPS decreases more rapidly.

    tl;dr: Usage of WoG after a damage intake of 70% max health / 4.5s improves TMI for all (tested) speccs.

    Edit: I might add that the optimal X values only make sense for the chosen combination of player profile and TMI boss. In many cases, spikes above 0.9*health.max don't happen often enough in the sims and result in basically zero WoG usage and hence there is no effect on the TMI. The sweent spot for X for each player can only be found by simming your actual gear vs. a TMI boss of the difficulty you are usually fighting against.
    Last edited by cujoe; 2015-03-04 at 10:48 AM.

  17. #3357
    Quote Originally Posted by Astur View Post
    Here's a condensed version of my thoughts on Emp Seals while Seal-Twisting.


    -- When to Seal twist --

    If I were to play with Empowered Seals on any boss in the game (Which I really doubt I will any time soon unless I'm proving a point) then I would start the fight in SoR. As a Blood Elf I would open with AT 7 seconds before pull and SS at about 3 seconds then go into:

    J - CS - LH/ES - SoI - CS - J -

    This will then grant both buffs within your first 6 globals. From this point on, when I change Seal depends on GC procs, so I can't detail it exactly. But I would maintain the standard rotation of CS - J - X - CS - X - J - CS - X - X.

    I would then use two different priorities depending on which seal I am in and the duration on Liadrin's Righteousness (20% haste - referred to as LR) and Uther's Insight (2% heal every 3 seconds - referred to as UI).

    In SoR:
    SoI if the duration of UI is less than 6s < AS (Grand Crusader Proc) < SS (Duration less than 9 seconds) < SoI < LH/ES* < AS < HW/HoW/Consec

    In SoI:
    AS (Grand Crusader Proc) < SS (Duration less than 9 seconds) < SoR < LH/ES* < AS < HW/HoW/Consec

    (*Holy Prism is omitted for reasons detailed below)

    This ensures 100% uptime on UI and will then prioritises generating Holy Power over refreshing LR.
    How much of a difference would it make if you prioritized SoI, always swapping back to it on your first open filler? Seems to me that the ideal situation would be maximizing your SoI uptime while always maintaining the haste buff, but given that you should only swap as a filler I'm not sure what sort of uptime that would lead to.

  18. #3358
    Deleted
    I think the main problem at the moment is ShotR being so damn weak. It reduces the damage taken by ~30%. For a 400k meleehit this will result in a 280k hit. ShotR mitigated 120k. Whats the average healing of a 1(2,3)BoG-powered WoG at resolve level of a boss hitting you for 400k with each hit? I guess not much less, taking crit and MS also into consideration. This fact would again advocate the T16 4p to be baseline for protadins.

  19. #3359
    Quote Originally Posted by DorfSchrat View Post
    I think the main problem at the moment is ShotR being so damn weak. It reduces the damage taken by ~30%. For a 400k meleehit this will result in a 280k hit. ShotR mitigated 120k. Whats the average healing of a 1(2,3)BoG-powered WoG at resolve level of a boss hitting you for 400k with each hit? I guess not much less, taking crit and MS also into consideration. This fact would again advocate the T16 4p to be baseline for protadins.
    The average healing of a 3 HoPo WoG after suffering damage of 70% max health in 4.5s (see simulations above) is about 237k with around 20% crit.

  20. #3360
    Quote Originally Posted by Vergilius View Post
    Did anyone ever do a trinket comparison for 680 Knight's Badge? I know Theck said ~10 pages back he had only done the 670 one, I'd love to see how it matches up to the mythic trinkets.
    bump, I wanna know if I should look forward to dropping 60k on one or not
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