[Prot] WoD/Legion Alpha Discussion

[Deleted]

Pardon me if it was said already, but what did you plan on rerolling to, Lazel?

Death Knight.

[Ferbian]

With HFC being heavily magic damage, with pretty much Zakuun appearing to be the only one doing very little (or nothing at all?) magic damage, will we be running with unglyphed DP for the entire tier or is there any fights that might be worth glyphing it for otherwise?

[Deleted]

Hmm interesting, I'm sure I could Zen med and chain Guards in it.... they did test the boss twice though so maybe I forgot whether they changed things or not.

Yeah, you could cheese it when they tested it the first time (among other things, we experimented with using Transcendence: Transfer to get the MoC-like ability as far away from the raid as possible), but the second time they tested it, it'd been changed to a completely unpurgeable silence, and the physical damage done by the hand from the green pool pierced BoP.

[Deleted]

Anyone got an overview of what specc we'll be going with for each boss? Thinking the last 3 tier of talents.

Also interested in what trinkets you guys are using for each specc, got access to all the current BIS ones. Which ones are you replacing first with HC ones of the new trinkets? Which trinkets are good/bad?

[Deleted]

Anyone got an overview of what specc we'll be going with for each boss? Thinking the last 3 tier of talents.

Also interested in what trinkets you guys are using for each specc, got access to all the current BIS ones. Which ones are you replacing first with HC ones of the new trinkets? Which trinkets are good/bad?

Everything that isn't WUE/Anzu's is a steaming pile of shit in terms of tanking trinkets unless you DESPERATELY need a stam trinket, in which case Imbued Sigil is ok, but a stam flask + stam food actually gives comparable HP. If you're not going to be using WUE then BFD/Anzu's is BiS. EDH and DC are good trinkets for pure DPS, but you can't really afford to itemize for that during progress because you're a paladin.

Probably running HS for basically every boss, possibly EmpS on Zakuun depending on healing setup and how the fight ends up playing out on Mythic. Take as many bitch jobs as you possibly can since literally every single other tank spec will be more useful than you unless you have EDH and DC + 4set.

[OrcsRLame]

So, reading the last few pages of stuff, has Theck like, retired from doing simcraft stuff? Also hi guys.

[Deleted]

Theck is extremely busy IRL and has, for now, put his WoW career on hold. He may come back in the future, but we're without him for now.

[OrcsRLame]

Oh, btw, on the topic of trinkets. From what I'm gathering the HFC trinkets are kind of bad. Anzu's is clearly BiS. WUE seems okay, but not great if you care about both mitigation and damage, so people were saying BFD for life if you don't need a stam trinket and don't want to run a pure dps trinket.

So I had a stupid thought. Knight's Badge? I remember it wasn't bad at all in Highmaul, and in BRF it was pretty good until you had mythic trinkets or at least heroic BFD. With the stage 6 crafting it will be ilvl 710. My question is, how does this stack up to mythic BFD for a second trinket. How about heroic BFD?

[Deleted]

Oh, btw, on the topic of trinkets. From what I'm gathering the HFC trinkets are kind of bad. Anzu's is clearly BiS. WUE seems okay, but not great if you care about both mitigation and damage, so people were saying BFD for life if you don't need a stam trinket and don't want to run a pure dps trinket.

So I had a stupid thought. Knight's Badge? I remember it wasn't bad at all in Highmaul, and in BRF it was pretty good until you had mythic trinkets or at least heroic BFD. With the stage 6 crafting it will be ilvl 710. My question is, how does this stack up to mythic BFD for a second trinket. How about heroic BFD?

If the raw BA on the trinket is higher than the BA on BFD, it's probably better than BFD. WUE is still very strong for us since we're one of the only specs that cares about static haste - it's roughly competitive at a 2:1 ratio with BA.

[cujoe]

Yea paladins are so good even me and astur are rerolling.

Did you actually test both your paladin and your DK on the PTR in a raid setting? As a mythic porgress raider I guess you did, but I seriously doubt that DK is so much better next patch than paladin. DKs will have lower HP (compared to now) because we don't have high breath uptimes anymore, we won't trivialize a lot of abilites with BoS anymore because it won't be up and our damage will be much lower. Together with the fact that the damage model of HFC is not as one-shot mechanic based as BRF was which clearly favored tanks with short but frequent personal CDs, DKs will be probably middle of the pack. Until you can play with significant BoS uptime again, the DK palystyle is also terribly boring.

If you don't reroll DK next patch, then well, you might be better off than with your pala.

[Jellospally]

Did you actually test both your paladin and your DK on the PTR in a raid setting? As a mythic porgress raider I guess you did, but I seriously doubt that DK is so much better next patch than paladin. DKs will have lower HP (compared to now) because we don't have high breath uptimes anymore, we won't trivialize a lot of abilites with BoS anymore because it won't be up and our damage will be much lower. Together with the fact that the damage model of HFC is not as one-shot mechanic based as BRF was which clearly favored tanks with short but frequent personal CDs, DKs will be probably middle of the pack. Until you can play with significant BoS uptime again, the DK palystyle is also terribly boring.

If you don't reroll DK next patch, then well, you might be better off than with your pala.

DKs are plenty fine and breath wasn't the only reason we were so strong in BRF it helped though. Defile DK is still gonna be pretty strong in HFC on a lot of fights and even out dps BoS on certain fights.

[celinamuna]

Tested on my paladin vs our unholy dk going blood.
He was way more stable (in part due to having higher EH)
Thnx rito

[cujoe]

DKs are plenty fine and breath wasn't the only reason we were so strong in BRF it helped though. Defile DK is still gonna be pretty strong in HFC on a lot of fights and even out dps BoS on certain fights.

Defile DK was "fine" in Highmaul, too, yet he was far from popular. The reason DK got so popular in BRF were his on demand CDs for plenty of one shot crap and his ridiculous damage with breath. So we are basically back to HM level?

@Lazel: Yeah DC procs SoD, too, but you will not manage to get as many stacks as with BoS that ticks passively vs DC thats needs a GCD. That's why I say our HP will not be as high as it was with breath, where it got close to druid HP (the ones that stack mastery and play with pulverize).

[Saiyendra]

Defile DK was "fine" in Highmaul, too, yet he was far from popular. The reason DK got so popular in BRF were his on demand CDs for plenty of one shot crap and his ridiculous damage with breath. So we are basically back to HM level?

@Lazel: Yeah DC procs SoD, too, but you will not manage to get as many stacks as with BoS that ticks passively vs DC thats needs a GCD. That's why I say our HP will not be as high as it was with breath, where it got close to druid HP (the ones that stack mastery and play with pulverize).

It's 35% SoD vs 44% SoD; barely noticeable difference. Death knights still have more damage than every other tank in HFC (paladins with the trinket come close in some situations).

And the correlation between popularity and performance isn't as strong as you seem to think - paladins in BrF were fairly well represented and yet were the worst tank of all. What was wrong with DKs in Highmaul? They were amazing on Brackenspore and Imperator for example, and were great on the other fights as well.

And druids that stack mastery don't have ridiculous health - you're thinking of the ones that gear for multistrike.

[cujoe]

It's 35% SoD vs 44% SoD; barely noticeable difference.

And the correlation between popularity and performance isn't as strong as you seem to think - paladins in BrF were fairly well represented and yet were the worst tank of all.

And druids that stack mastery don't have ridiculous health - you're thinking of the ones that gear for multistrike.

I compared DK hp with that of mastery druids because the MS ones have much higher HP than DKs.

I know that popularity doesn't necessarily correlate with viability. In Highmaul paladins (at least in the beginning), monks (after the buff to their mastery) and warris were strong and frequently played tank classes. That trend continued into the beginning of BRF where people either could not be arsed to reroll or did not anticipate how certain mechanics will play out, so the representation of these classes in the first weeks of BRF were highest (in week two there were like 2 DKS and 1 druid in the top 20 on wowprogress). During farm people realized how strong DKs are with enough MS and played right and they got hugely poplular.

I think we will see similar things in the beginning of HFC as we saw in BRF. There will be a lot of monks, druids and DKs in progress guilds and later in the tier people might realize paladins with the right trinkets are actuallynot that bad (and more fun than DKs).

Or maybe not. I just think people are extrapolating too much from the current status.

[celinamuna]

Imo correlation between popularity and performance is extremely week (as can be seen in say SoO), where some classes are historically over and under represented.
It only gets skewed once a class is particularly broken for a mechanic (Ra-den/Lei-Shen : monk, Garrosh 25H - monk, Imperator - Monk, Blackhand - monk)

I'm also starting to see a pattern. (not sure about sha of fear tbh)

[cujoe]

It only gets skewed once a class is particularly broken for a mechanic (Ra-den/Lei-Shen : monk, Garrosh 25H - monk, Imperator - Monk, Blackhand - monk)

I'm also starting to see a pattern. (not sure about sha of fear tbh)

You mean, shamans are op?

On another note, it is rather unsettling to see your pala without a tank specc.

[celinamuna]

You mean, shamans are op?

On another note, it is rather unsettling to see your pala without a tank specc.

But it's what blizzard wanted.And not because arena gear looks nice, and prot is unviable in pvp.

[Jellospally]

Defile DK was "fine" in Highmaul, too, yet he was far from popular. The reason DK got so popular in BRF were his on demand CDs for plenty of one shot crap and his ridiculous damage with breath. So we are basically back to HM level?

@Lazel: Yeah DC procs SoD, too, but you will not manage to get as many stacks as with BoS that ticks passively vs DC thats needs a GCD. That's why I say our HP will not be as high as it was with breath, where it got close to druid HP (the ones that stack mastery and play with pulverize).

Its different because of EDH and DC DK will shit on other tanks dps. We can still use breath but only if we are tanking 2+ mobs generally.

Biggest thing is a DK can pull off tanking with those is why.

- - - Updated - - -

welp later EDH for every class in game. Damage of the dot per stack nerfed by 50% and fixed a lot of the multiple stack bugs classes had I guess. Cleave trinket and Anzus probably more dps lol.

[celinamuna]

I love how blizzard pushes out patches less than 3 hours before they're suppose to go live.