[Prot] WoD/Legion Alpha Discussion

[marinos]

Afaik gems don't work in CMs now so they ain't going to make any difference in the future anyway.

[Jackielope]

*snip*Allowing the heal from Uther's *whatever* to scale with Resolve would be a good start. *snip*

Last I recall Uther's Insight was affected by Resolve. However, Resolve levels suck in 5 mans and the heal itself is weak in the first place so it's no wonder you're not feeling it.

[Deleted]

Last I recall Uther's Insight was affected by Resolve. However, Resolve levels suck in 5 mans and the heal itself is weak in the first place so it's no wonder you're not feeling it.

Are you certain? I'll have to go and look at it again, but I'm 99% it stayed ticking for the 1% when I did actually have resolve.

Edit: Definitely doesn't scale with anything. Still only doing 1% of my life.

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Afaik gems don't work in CMs now so they ain't going to make any difference in the future anyway.

Forgot about that, which makes it even more vital that they get the balance between the tanks (& dps and healers) spot on at this level of gear. There wont be any out-gemming this time for specs that have good scaling but start out a bit poo.

Edit2:

Paladin
Talents
[Requires a realm restart.] Holy Shield should now correctly deal damage when blocking normal attacks as well.

At least that's sorted.

[Deleted]

CMs are perfectly doable atm with EmpS. Did Skyreach CM today for realm best time on Silvermoon-EU in maybe 610 equipped with EmpS. The real issue in CMs at while everyone is still slightly undergeared is killing bosses before mechanics overwhelm you - last boss of BSM and Skyreach are both a pain in the fucking ass in that respect.

I had realm best time for like 5mins today on Silvermoon and then someone overtook me xD Silvermoon a busy place

[Kanadei]

Hey guys, I've been wondering a couple things about weapons for prot and this seems as good a place as any.

I'm torn regarding my weapon compared to the heirloom for a couple reasons.

1. There is currently no "prot" enchant, just flat damage (which obviously helps but survivability>dps for me)
2. The sockets mean we can slot in quite a bit of secondary stats (for HS mastery) which we are short on at the moment
3. It can still proc Colossus, despite being above 600 ilvl, which was a great enchant for a long time in MoP and I assume is still somewhat useful now

Now I know that to keep this on, you're looking at a sizeable dps dip for a few reasons. The big burst dps enchant (shattered hand) has a substantial effect, the extra dps on the weapon and probably a couple extra stats as well. And I know that with perfect play etc etc current survivability shouldn't need too much of a boost in this kind of semi-drastic way.

But still I'm interested to hear thoughts on this, if only to reassure myself that I can bank this bad boy for now.

[Deleted]

There definitely are enchants that benefit us Prot Paladins for survival (crit/mast/haste/armor procs), they're just too expensive to bother with right now.

Also with the squish, was colossus not retuned to something like a 500 absorb? When your healthpool is 260k+ you really aren't going to notice it, but you will notice the extra DPS that Shattered Hand provides. If I remember right it was about 5-8% of my damage.

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So SS tooltip seems to be confused. Top is the proc itself, about what you'd expect, bottom is the tooltip when cast; appearing to crit or something before it spawns any shields - which then turn out to be normal, non-crit shields, and sometimes crit-ms-wtfisthelogic 14k things. Had all sorts of values on the 30sec buff, then totally different actual shield values lol.

[celinamuna]

So SS tooltip seems to be confused. Top is the proc itself, about what you'd expect, bottom is the tooltip when cast; appearing to crit or something before it spawns any shields - which then turn out to be normal, non-crit shields, and sometimes crit-ms-wtfisthelogic 14k things. Had all sorts of values on the 30sec buff, then totally different actual shield values lol.

already posted about it :P

Btw wtf is going on with SS tooltip ?
With the same exact ap values i've got : 5032, 6541 (ms?) absorbs (or so it seems) as tooltip for the 6 second buff, and for the actual effect : 4890, 9781(crit?)

So, which of the following scenarios are possible ?
- Normal
- Normal + Shining protector
- Normal + ms
- Normal + Shining Protector + ms
- Crit
- Crit + Shining protector
- Crit + ms
- Crit + Shining Protector + ms

Can MS proc from shining protector ?

And if my guesses with crit/ms are correct, why are the values of the SS buff (long duration one) affected by it ?

[Deleted]

holy_shield_absorb <- Anyone knows what this is supposed to be in SimC?

EDIT: Okay, it IS a workaround for blocked spells. But why is SimC using 3 enemies as a default?

[szandos]

From today's hotfixes:

Paladin
Talents
[Requires a realm restart.] Holy Shield should now correctly deal damage when blocking normal attacks as well.

Seems HS got bug fixed.

[Helkor]

In my opinion Holy shield is the only talent out of the three that are almost always good. The only case being if you're not really tanking anything, and even then, it'd still do damage if the boss is using some kind of AoE spell attack on the raid.

Emp. Seals is also pretty good. It allows some diversity in playstyle within one fight. However, it requires quite a lot of GCD's and as far as I know, it doesn't win on either DPS or TMI in any case, even if you only rotate SoR and SoT.

Seraphim is to me just too slow, and for it to be the most effective, you'd want to pop it as soon as possible again instead of holding it. The longer you hold it, the less it's worth. However it's quite a good stress-talent, in the sense that it's good for those situations where you need a little extra to stay alive. Neither Emp Seals and HS brings an extra powerful CD. However, it not being up all the time, also means that there are times where you are quite a lot squishier than you'd normally be.

I think I'll stick with Holy Shield, especially with the recent bugfix. It requires much less attention, and overall it performs really well in both DPS and TMI.

[Deleted]

In my opinion Holy shield is the only talent out of the three that are almost always good. The only case being if you're not really tanking anything, and even then, it'd still do damage if the boss is using some kind of AoE spell attack on the raid.

Emp. Seals is also pretty good. It allows some diversity in playstyle within one fight. However, it requires quite a lot of GCD's and as far as I know, it doesn't win on either DPS or TMI in any case, even if you only rotate SoR and SoT.

Seraphim is to me just too slow, and for it to be the most effective, you'd want to pop it as soon as possible again instead of holding it. The longer you hold it, the less it's worth. However it's quite a good stress-talent, in the sense that it's good for those situations where you need a little extra to stay alive. Neither Emp Seals and HS brings an extra powerful CD. However, it not being up all the time, also means that there are times where you are quite a lot squishier than you'd normally be.

I think I'll stick with Holy Shield, especially with the recent bugfix. It requires much less attention, and overall it performs really well in both DPS and TMI.

Seraphim is absolutely fucking amazing for any fight with primarily physical damage. You can keep a rotation of DivProt - Seraphim - Double SotR - DivProt going indefinitely, which means you've literally got 100% uptime on 20% damage mitigation at worst. We'd have fucking killed for that sort of mitigation in SoO (Lord knows I'd have liked to have had Seraphim for Paragons!) Since this is entirely possible at 0 haste, it also leaves us free to stack mastery and simple talent into Holy Shield for any fight where we're likely to get chunked by magical damage.

I mean, it's not like I don't like EmpS - it's actually a lot less clunky than I thought it would be when you're only juggling the SoT and SoR buffs, but the combination of Seraphim/glyphed DivProt for physical-heavy fights and Holy Shield for add/magic fights just seems way, way, way too good to me to pass up for EmpS.

[Deleted]

Holy Shield still broken in Challenge Modes at least. Outdoor it seems to be working.

[Bzly]

So yesterday I switched from HS to EmpS and ran a few heroics with my healer friend. He said that I was 100 times easier to heal after switching to the "stance dance" talent. I set up a weak aura and played with the key bindings and EmpS just makes the prot rotation soooo much more fun, while pulling higher numbers and surviving at the same time. Just my 2 cents.

[Deleted]

already posted about it :P

It's very strange for sure :P Not really an issue as long as it's not doing anything weird to the absorb, but I could see it being confusing for people who are expecting 11k or w/e shields and only getting regular 6k ones.

As for HS vs EmpS vs Seraphim, I actually like all of them. I just don't think the pay off in terms of survival is quite there for EmpS. Although sims have it at about the same strength as HS, you have to play like a robot to get it there. Anything less than perfection and it starts to drop away. I feel it should have more pay-off for playing it well than taking a passive or an easy-to-use short buff like Seraphim.

[trystero]

It's very strange for sure :P Not really an issue as long as it's not doing anything weird to the absorb, but I could see it being confusing for people who are expecting 11k or w/e shields and only getting regular 6k ones.

As for HS vs EmpS vs Seraphim, I actually like all of them. I just don't think the pay off in terms of survival is quite there for EmpS. Although sims have it at about the same strength as HS, you have to play like a robot to get it there. Anything less than perfection and it starts to drop away. I feel it should have more pay-off for playing it well than taking a passive or an easy-to-use short buff like Seraphim.

I agree with this - the survival boost needs to be developed. Insight's so worthless now, it's not even worth using. Having a talent that demands so much more from the player, and it is not clearly the superior option when utilized well, doesn't make any sense, especially when the strongest contender, overall, seems to be completely, utterly, boringly passive.

OTOH I do love having that 15% haste bonus.

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Seraphim is absolutely fucking amazing for any fight with primarily physical damage. You can keep a rotation of DivProt - Seraphim - Double SotR - DivProt going indefinitely, which means you've literally got 100% uptime on 20% damage mitigation at worst. We'd have fucking killed for that sort of mitigation in SoO (Lord knows I'd have liked to have had Seraphim for Paragons!) Since this is entirely possible at 0 haste, it also leaves us free to stack mastery and simple talent into Holy Shield for any fight where we're likely to get chunked by magical damage.

I mean, it's not like I don't like EmpS - it's actually a lot less clunky than I thought it would be when you're only juggling the SoT and SoR buffs, but the combination of Seraphim/glyphed DivProt for physical-heavy fights and Holy Shield for add/magic fights just seems way, way, way too good to me to pass up for EmpS.

Yup, this is a good defense of Seraphim. It just requires a different approach to tanking, whereas up to this point it's been about spamming SotR as much as heavenly possible to provide coverage.

[Termon]

It was mentioned in the Sacred Duty post but thrown out as an anomaly, by haste may be the best stat after BA for seraphim. I have not ran any sims but the thinking goes like this: there are haste break points for seraphim. Specifically, the number of gcds during divine protection and the number of global cooldowns during the 15 second down time. For starters you need to hit 6 gcds for 8 seconds or a 1.33 sec gcd. This means that during divine protection you can more than likely get 5 hp with the sanctified wrath talent in the 8 seconds before seraphim that you should cover with divine protection. Since seraphim downtime and divine protection are flat times, reducing the gcd is more important than on HS or EmpS.

[Trep]

Does anyone know if the Hot Fix for HS is live yet? I know they "implemented" the hot fix but it requires a realm restart. Did they do a restart anytime in the last 14 hours since I logged off?

BTW, I love EmpS purely from an aesthetic point of view as well as I feel I am noticeably easier to heal while using it. I am able to keep up all three buffs with the use of a cast sequence macro and am still able to manage which seal I am in the majority of the time. I feel so "Holy Warrior" when I have all three buff indicators underneath me >.>

[celinamuna]

BTW, I love EmpS purely from an aesthetic point of view as well as I feel I am noticeably easier to heal while using it. I am able to keep up all three buffs with the use of a cast sequence macro and am still able to manage which seal I am in the majority of the time. I feel so "Holy Warrior" when I have all three buff indicators underneath me >.>

I'm slightly ticked off that there isn't any "bonus" animation for when you get all 3 buffs.

[Trep]

I'm slightly ticked off that there isn't any "bonus" animation for when you get all 3 buffs.

I agree 100%. At least when you bother to keep up Uther's Insight, it is purple and not just gold like all of the rest. Just curious but you and Lazel state that you only keep up Trush and Righteousness. Do you guys never keep up Insight at all? Also, do you micro manage or are you finding a use in a cast sequence?

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Not that, but , the item that strips your char naked with 10 min duration and cd is OP.

lol that's awesome! Tauren though would look better >.> <.<

[Deleted]

It was mentioned in the Sacred Duty post but thrown out as an anomaly, by haste may be the best stat after BA for seraphim. I have not ran any sims but the thinking goes like this: there are haste break points for seraphim. Specifically, the number of gcds during divine protection and the number of global cooldowns during the 15 second down time. For starters you need to hit 6 gcds for 8 seconds or a 1.33 sec gcd. This means that during divine protection you can more than likely get 5 hp with the sanctified wrath talent in the 8 seconds before seraphim that you should cover with divine protection. Since seraphim downtime and divine protection are flat times, reducing the gcd is more important than on HS or EmpS.

This is a valid point, but the fact of the matter is that Seraphim is perfectly suited to its niche (mitigating physical damage) without any haste at all. Part of the benefits associated with Seraphim is that we can stack the stats that are best for Holy Shield without significant loss of effectiveness when we're using Sera. It simply allows us to be more flexible than talenting EmpS or stacking haste after BA.