[Prot] WoD/Legion Alpha Discussion

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

Isn't Blessed Hammer really good defensively anyway? I mean, it debuffs anything it hits to cause 15% less damage on its next auto attack. Isn't that a large percentage of our damage taken on any given boss fight? Seems way better than a sometimes buff to SOTR and LOTP to me.

I confess I don't have a good feel for how much of our damage is from auto-attacks. It must vary with the boss. Ozruk, for example, hits for almost nothing and then BAM nails you with his specials. Trash mobs are probably mostly auto-attacks.

What I'm seeing is a choice between
A) Always-on +10% block PLUS spell block PLUS passive 75%AP damage to everyone you block
B) AoE attack every 4 seconds that reduces one auto-attack per attacker by 15%
C) Spamming Hammer of the Righteous every GCD with 8 yard radius AoE, and not having to worry about Consecration when you're kiting a boss, moving out of fire, etc.

Every 4 seconds for Blessed Hammer sounds pretty good. If you're taking Consecrated Ground at Tier 90, you're gonna want to drop Consecration and stay in it anyway. And there's probably plenty of other things worth doing between those 4 second casts.

Consecrated Hammer sounds like easy mode when you're constantly moving and kiting. Forget Consecration, forget Blessed Hammer, just bam-bam-spam HoR every GCD for AoE tanking and know you'll also get buffed LoP and SoR whenever you need them.

Holy Shield might be the best of the three for progression, imho. Completely passive, so you can focus on fight mechanics. Blocking spells is huge, the 10% block is significant, and having a pack of trash taking 75% AP damage every time you block them should add up.

A lot of you have had a chance to actually test these. I'm just going by what I read. Blessed Hammer sounds like the shiny new option that's fun to play with, but it looks like they did a pretty good job of balancing the three options on this tier.

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Hmmm... If Blessed Hammer replaces Hammer of the Righteous, doing 85% AP AoE damage, while HoR would have done 125% ST+75% AoE...

Then add in that with Consecrated Hammer you could use HoR faster than Blessed Hammer...

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Maybe I'm missing something - please correct me - but how is Blessed Hammer not a DPS loss on single target? You lose HoR which would have done 125%AP to primary target and replace it with a spell that does 85%AP.

[celinamuna]

Cuz blessed hammer hits more than one time.
Plus BH is holy dmg and ignores armor + gains benefit from our artifact perk, while hotr is physica.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

Cuz blessed hammer hits more than one time.
Plus BH is holy dmg and ignores armor + gains benefit from our artifact perk, while hotr is physica.

Ah ok - the holy vs physical is what I was missing.

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Is Divine Steed always that same horse? Does it vary at all from one character to the next? It looks very appropriate for a human paladin, not so much for a Draenei or Tauren.

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Is it maybe the same mount you get for your pally mount?

[Noradin]

Is it maybe the same mount you get for your pally mount?

I have several "pally mounts" per char.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

I have several "pally mounts" per char.

Sure, and it would be cool if we could choose a signature mount for each toon. But Draenei and Tauren paladins get racial versions of the classic paladin charger. I'm reading in other parts of the forum that this is what they will summon. Seems more appropriate than a horse thematically, if also more awkward for visibility and confined spaces.

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Cuz blessed hammer hits more than one time.
Plus BH is holy dmg and ignores armor + gains benefit from our artifact perk, while hotr is physica.

I still want to see some hard numbers. How many times can you spam HoR with no cooldown? Versus how many times can you catch a boss with BH? I think I would get more visceral satisfaction from smacking the boss repeatedly with my hammer rather than watching a golden one floating around that bopped him every now and then, but again I'm only imagining the gameplay in my head, without having tried it yet.

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I spent a lot of time farming this hammer - I want to use it!

[OrcsRLame]

You still kind of smack things with Blessed Hammer. It does an initial hit directly in front of you and it's the same animation as HOTR.

[celinamuna]

I still want to see some hard numbers. How many times can you spam HoR with no cooldown? Versus how many times can you catch a boss with BH? I think I would get more visceral satisfaction from smacking the boss repeatedly with my hammer rather than watching a golden one floating around that bopped him every now and then, but again I'm only imagining the gameplay in my head, without having tried it yet.

89.25% Magic dmg (x3 hits) vs 125% Physical dmg

[Sepelio]

In actual practice theres quite literally no comparison, blessed hammer is a beyond absurd amount of damage.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

89.25% Magic dmg (x3 hits) vs 125% Physical dmg

Yeah, and I get that it's magic not physical, but Consecrated Hammer means no CD on HoR. So you're going to be hitting more than once with it too. What I don't know (not having played it) is how many HoR I can spam compared to how many hits of BH I can manage.

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In actual practice theres quite literally no comparison, blessed hammer is a beyond absurd amount of damage.

I certainly can't argue with you, but do you have any numbers? Or can you point me to any? If not, no biggie. I'll be able to see for myself soon enough. Then I'll have to admit you were right, or maybe come back and say "not so fast..."

[celinamuna]

Yeah, and I get that it's magic not physical, but Consecrated Hammer means no CD on HoR. So you're going to be hitting more than once with it too. What I don't know (not having played it) is how many HoR I can spam compared to how many hits of BH I can manage.

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I certainly can't argue with you, but do you have any numbers? Or can you point me to any? If not, no biggie. I'll be able to see for myself soon enough. Then I'll have to admit you were right, or maybe come back and say "not so fast..."

BH/HotR both have 4.5 sec recharge.
So at most, if you literally never press any other button you can get 3 hotrs in for each BH.
If you do 2 out of 3 globals for hotr you get 250% physical dmg vs 267.75% magic.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

BH/HotR both have 4.5 sec recharge.
So at most, if you literally never press any other button you can get 3 hotrs in for each BH.
If you do 2 out of 3 globals for hotr you get 250% physical dmg vs 267.75% magic.

Yeah - that makes sense.

[celinamuna]

Yeah - that makes sense.

Basically even if hotr is 66% of all of your casts, it loses in dmg to BH.

[Goruks]

That's just me or somebody else is bothered with some defensive skills that got GCD?
Example:
Artifact skill => Eye of Tyr
Divine Steed with Knight Templar talent

Not to mention Aegis of Light interruptible channeling rly? worst skills design ever for a tank raid cd

[Deleted]

That's just me or somebody else is bothered with some defensive skills that got GCD?
Example:
Artifact skill => Eye of Tyr
Divine Steed with Knight Templar talent

Not to mention Aegis of Light interruptible channeling rly? worst skills design ever for a tank raid cd

Divine Steed being on the GCD feels especially shit, it seems to suffer from the same "lag" issue as Avenger's Shield for me.

[Dreglorg]

So the question is basicly:

10% block + 75%reflect damage (phys)

vs

More dps + 15% less dmg from next auto attack

(in any fight with targeted spells holy shield is retarded good and obvious, so this is assuming there are no spells)

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

Basically even if hotr is 66% of all of your casts, it loses in dmg to BH.

Sounds pretty convincing. I wonder why they didn't balance it better? Can't complain really, since it sounds like Blessed Hammer will be great, but you wonder sometimes why they so often have clear winners and losers on a tier of talents.

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Or maybe the defensives on CH were considered better? But situational, at best. The only advantage would be for fights where you can't drop Consecration and stay in it.

[Sepelio]

Even on fights with targetted spell, you'll have a hard time blanket picking holy shield over it, the spells need to make up a monstrous portion of your incoming damage for holy shield to be the better talent, you have to bare in mind we'll likely be avoiding mastery like the plague haste/vers ftl. So low block = less mititgation = less damage from hs

[celinamuna]

Sounds pretty convincing. I wonder why they didn't balance it better? Can't complain really, since it sounds like Blessed Hammer will be great, but you wonder sometimes why they so often have clear winners and losers on a tier of talents.

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Or maybe the defensives on CH were considered better? But situational, at best. The only advantage would be for fights where you can't drop Consecration and stay in it.

Because they have different purposes.
Consecrated is for ppl crying about downtime in rotation and cons not following them around.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

So what do we expect stat priority to be? Sorry I realize that has probably already been discussed, but we're up to 536 comments now.

[Gallahadd]

It's kinda hard to tell, we scale pretty badly with everything...