1. #1361
    Quote Originally Posted by Theck View Post
    The AMR weights were calculated using Holy Shield, again, assuming AMR caters to the lowest common denominator. If you're using Seraphim you're sophisticated enough to figure out and enter custom stat weights, IMO.
    I don't understand this. It's a talent which anyone can take, irrespective of skill level. I'd expect many poor players to take it on the assumption that good tanks are doing so in their armories.

  2. #1362
    Quote Originally Posted by Wanko View Post
    I know 1 paladin tank (7/7 HC, so nothing really serious) who thinks that proper Seraphim usage means pooping it every 2m with HA, and ignoring it for the rest of the fight... Thankfully we aren't doing any hardcore progression, so I don't have to shout at he yet.
    LOL this physically hurt to read and after a brief trip to the doctor I'm back to write this post so that you can inform said paladin that he misclicked the "Holy Shield" talent.

  3. #1363
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by trystero View Post
    I don't understand this. It's a talent which anyone can take, irrespective of skill level.
    What's not to get? A lot of people, when faced with passives and actives on a class they're not that experienced with, will go with the passive. Same deal if they're not that bothered about maxing performance and just take some random person's advice, or whichever is most attractive at first glance. I do it myself on classes I enjoy but don't actually care about doing particularly well on (Hunter, Lock, DK mainly). I don't think I've seen a single other Prot out and about - and I pretty much always inspect - using a talent setup that isn't DP&HS so it's reasonable to assume that the majority will go for the one that looks easiest on paper; the passive.

    It's smarter to just give those people the best setup possible for those "lazy" choices than tell/expect them to take a talent and gear setup they don't have the knowledge to pull off. In the end they'll probably do better using HS/DP/Mastery effectively than using Seraphim/HA(or SW)/Crit poorly.

    http://www.wowpopular.com/Paladin/Protection
    Last edited by mmoc4359933d3d; 2015-01-10 at 01:05 AM.

  4. #1364
    Quote Originally Posted by Valarius View Post
    What's not to get? A lot of people, when faced with passives and actives on a class they're not that experienced with, will go with the passive. Same deal if they're not that bothered about maxing performance and just take some random person's advice, or whichever is most attractive at first glance. I do it myself on classes I enjoy but don't actually care about doing particularly well on (Hunter, Lock, DK mainly). I don't think I've seen a single other Prot out and about - and I pretty much always inspect - using a talent setup that isn't DP&HS so it's reasonable to assume that the majority will go for the one that looks easiest on paper; the passive.

    It's smarter to just give those people the best setup possible for those "lazy" choices than tell/expect them to take a talent and gear setup they don't have the knowledge to pull off. In the end they'll probably do better using HS/DP/Mastery effectively than using Seraphim/HA(or SW)/Crit poorly.

    http://www.wowpopular.com/Paladin/Protection
    According to that website, Righteous Retreat only gets three stars out of ten popularity rating. This alone is enough to make me feel depressed.

  5. #1365
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Lazel View Post
    wanted to try holy shield with DP for 1 try on brackenspore , we kill it. F-M-L.
    Was it noticeable different in terms of survivability cause ive always just used Seraphim for each kill?

  6. #1366
    Quote Originally Posted by Lazel View Post
    wanted to try holy shield with DP for 1 try on brackenspore , we kill it. F-M-L.
    By DP do you mean divine protection unglyphed or glyphed or do you mean divine purpose? DP stands for way too much now. >.> I keep thinking DP stands for divine plea (RIP stupid buff spell)
    Quote Originally Posted by Blznsmri View Post
    Quit shoving your opinion down other peoples throats.

    You're worse than Street Corner Baptists...

  7. #1367
    Quote Originally Posted by Valarius View Post
    What's not to get? A lot of people, when faced with passives and actives on a class they're not that experienced with, will go with the passive. Same deal if they're not that bothered about maxing performance and just take some random person's advice, or whichever is most attractive at first glance. I do it myself on classes I enjoy but don't actually care about doing particularly well on (Hunter, Lock, DK mainly). I don't think I've seen a single other Prot out and about - and I pretty much always inspect - using a talent setup that isn't DP&HS so it's reasonable to assume that the majority will go for the one that looks easiest on paper; the passive.

    It's smarter to just give those people the best setup possible for those "lazy" choices than tell/expect them to take a talent and gear setup they don't have the knowledge to pull off. In the end they'll probably do better using HS/DP/Mastery effectively than using Seraphim/HA(or SW)/Crit poorly.

    http://www.wowpopular.com/Paladin/Protection
    What's not to get is assuming that someone taking a talent automatically renders this person competent enough to understand the nuances of that talent, especially when it's a thing to armory hump better players. And obviously players will take talents for idiosyncratic reasons that have absolutely nothing to do with armories or their skill levels. It's one thing to say that AMR defaults to HS since it is the most popular talent and another to assume players talenting Seraphim understand what it is they're doing.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Wymarc View Post
    Was it noticeable different in terms of survivability cause ive always just used Seraphim for each kill?
    I really like that combo for survival. On our M Brackenspore attempts I've yet to die to either the add or the boss; not having to dump 5 HP in Seraphim allows me way more flexibility to react to incoming damage. To be fair I also yelled at our healers pretty hard before pulling.
    Last edited by trystero; 2015-01-10 at 02:37 AM.

  8. #1368
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by trystero View Post
    What's not to get is assuming that someone taking a talent automatically renders this person competent enough to understand the nuances of that talent, especially when it's a thing to armory hump better players. And obviously players will take talents for idiosyncratic reasons that have absolutely nothing to do with armories or their skill levels. It's one thing to say that AMR defaults to HS since it is the most popular talent and another to assume players talenting Seraphim understand what it is they're doing.
    I misinterpreted your complaint a bit since you quoted the whole thing, but take a look at the wowpopular link and you'll see basically everyone is using HS. I'm fairly confident the kind of person who uses Seraphim without knowing how or why is going to get crushed, decide Seraphim is worse than HS, then go back to their comfort zone. I think it's reasonable to assume the majority of people using Seraphim long-term actually know what they're doing, or will try to understand it better and end up in threads like this one.

    Theck worded it a bit too absolutely maybe, that's all. All I think he was getting at is that there's more benefit in using his time to make sure people gear for Holy Shield properly since so many use it, rather than worrying about catering to the small amount of Seraphim players that aren't clued in, or those that are simply too bad to actually get the benefit out of it.
    Last edited by mmoc4359933d3d; 2015-01-10 at 03:25 AM.

  9. #1369
    Quote Originally Posted by trystero View Post
    What's not to get is assuming that someone taking a talent automatically renders this person competent enough to understand the nuances of that talent, especially when it's a thing to armory hump better players. And obviously players will take talents for idiosyncratic reasons that have absolutely nothing to do with armories or their skill levels. It's one thing to say that AMR defaults to HS since it is the most popular talent and another to assume players talenting Seraphim understand what it is they're doing.
    That was a bit tongue-in-cheek, but it's more or less correct.

    1) Holy Shield is by far the more popular talent. Hence, biasing the defaults towards HS makes sense.

    2) If you take Seraphim and play very badly, then your best bet is to stack stats that are good at passive mitigation, because you suck. What are those stats? Mastery and Stamina, the same ones the Holy Shield weights push. So these weights are also good for "bad players using Seraphim."

    3) If you take Seraphim and want to get the most out of it, presumably you're doing at least some research as to how to do so. In which case you should have stumbled across stat weights somewhere, and should be able to enter them yourself.

    I mean, the question is a bit pedantic anyway. If you're playing like shit, you're going to perform like garbage regardless of what you stack. And the stat weights generated using a model that plays properly are unlikely to be at all accurate in the first place. At that point, does it really matter what stat you prioritize? Because it's not even clear what the correct stat is if you're playing severely sub-optimally.
    Last edited by Theck; 2015-01-10 at 03:34 AM.

  10. #1370
    Quote Originally Posted by lazel View Post
    wanted to try holy shield with dp for 1 try on brackenspore , we kill it. F-m-l.
    bwhaahahahahahahahaha

  11. #1371
    Quote Originally Posted by Jackielope View Post
    You have to enable a metric called TMI in the options menu.

    Go to the Options tab, and you'll see three sections. The middle one has "Target and Tanking Options." Under that is "Target Type" which needs to be set to "TMI standard boss." A couple lines down there is "TMI Standard Boss" which can be selected for various raid levels. Pick one that will most closely match the content you're doing and then you're set for getting the TMI graph assuming you enable scaling.
    Thank you so much for replying to me, I'll get right on this after I get everything done with my reinstall of Windows lol. Thanks again.

  12. #1372
    6.1 has buffs all around for Prot Paladin... am I the only one who thinks its not needed?

  13. #1373
    Quote Originally Posted by Haioden View Post
    6.1 has buffs all around for Prot Paladin... am I the only one who thinks its not needed?
    I believe more than a few of those are tooltip fixes from the previously implemented hotfixes. I could be wrong though.

  14. #1374
    Quote Originally Posted by Bobby1291 View Post
    Thank you so much for replying to me, I'll get right on this after I get everything done with my reinstall of Windows lol. Thanks again.
    You're welcome! Do keep in mind the latest download has tweaked the graphical user interface, so there might be slight differences. It shouldn't be too big of an issue sorting it out though.



    Quote Originally Posted by Rangar View Post
    I believe more than a few of those are tooltip fixes from the previously implemented hotfixes. I could be wrong though.
    Definitely. The changes to GC and our mastery in particular pop out. I'm really hoping they either find a way to make haste worthwhile for us or they swap our attunement to mastery or something.
    Quote Originally Posted by Everything Nice View Post
    Noodles and chocolate milk is the breakfast of Champions.
    Super Brony Friendfinder

  15. #1375
    Quote Originally Posted by Haioden View Post
    6.1 has buffs all around for Prot Paladin... am I the only one who thinks its not needed?
    all are tooltip fixes / fixes put it recently the PTR is just being update to be like live.

  16. #1376
    The datamining finds changes in the tooltip text, so it will pick up pure tooltip changes as well as new buffs/nerfs/tweaks. I'm not sure about all the AP scaling changes, but I'd imagine everything is old changes where the tooltips just haven't been updated since we haven't had a real patch. I doubt they'd buff prot DPS right now.
    Warning - while you were typing 50 new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post.

  17. #1377
    So divine bulwarks tooltip was actually wrong and currently only gives 4% dmg reduc from sotr? I know you guys have been saying that many tooltips were wrong but I don't remember anyone actually listing which abilities had incorrect tooltips. Also insert obligatory jaden smith quote: If our tooltips aren't real how can we be real?
    Quote Originally Posted by Blznsmri View Post
    Quit shoving your opinion down other peoples throats.

    You're worse than Street Corner Baptists...

  18. #1378
    it's been 4% since they changed our mastery coefficient. It's like a month old change, they increased the base dmg reduction from 20% to 25% and reduced how much % you get from mastery
    Warning - while you were typing 50 new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post.

  19. #1379
    Deleted
    Were they all tooltip changes then?

    Don't get me wrong, I'm just happy they aren't nerfing us lol.

  20. #1380
    Quote Originally Posted by Valarius View Post
    Were they all tooltip changes then?

    Don't get me wrong, I'm just happy they aren't nerfing us lol.
    This is just the first build, I'd imagine the balance changes will come in time. So don't get too happy yet lol.
    Warning - while you were typing 50 new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post.

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