[Prot] WoD/Legion Alpha Discussion

[Snewp]

Everyone's saying that these are all tooltip updates, which is correct for most of it, but what's all of this rabble about crusader strike and HotR no longer generating holy power?
Is this just a datamining error, or is this as bad as it sounds?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Crusader Strike (Holy, Protection) An instant strike that causes (100% 120% of weapon damage) Physical damage.
Crusader Strike (Retribution) An instant strike that causes (100% 120% of weapon damage) Physical damage and grants 1 Holy Power.
Hammer of the Righteous (Holy, Protection) An instant strike that causes (100% 120% of weapon damage) Physical damage.
Hammer of the Righteous (Retribution) An instant strike that causes (100% 120% of weapon damage) Physical damage and grants 1 Holy Power.

[Theck]

Datamining error. CS/HotR are certainly not going to stop generating Holy Power.

To further clarify that thought, here's the spell data for Crusader Strike:

Name             : Crusader Strike (id=35395) [Spell Family (10)] 
Class            : Paladin
Resource         : 10% Base Mana (3200 @Level 100)
Spell Level      : 1
Range            : 5 yards
GCD              : 1.5 seconds
Cooldown         : 4.5 seconds
Affecting spells : Sanctity of Battle (25956), Improved Crusader Strike (44300), Sword of Light (53503), Guarded by the Light (53592), Item - Paladin T13 Retribution 2P Bonus (Judgment) (105765), Holy Avenger (105809), 
Attributes       : ........ ........ x.x..... ........   ........ .x...... ........ ....x... 
                 : ........ ........ ........ ........   ........ ........ ........ ........ 
                 : ........ ........ ........ ........   ........ ........ ........ ........ 
                 : ........ ..x..... ........ ........   ........ ........ x....... ........ 
                 : ........ ........ ........ ........   ........ ........ ........ ........ 
                 : ........ ........ ........ ........   ........ ........ ........ ........ 
Effects          :
#1 (id=25579)    : Normalized Weapon Damage (121)
                   Base Value: 0 | Scaled Value: 0
#2 (id=25580)    : Weapon Damage% (31)
                   Base Value: 120 | Scaled Value: 1.2 (avg=0)
#3 (id=91108)    : Energize Power (30)
                   Base Value: 1 | Scaled Value: 1 | Misc Value: holy_power
Description      : $?s85673|s85256[An instant strike that causes $sw2 Physical damage and grants 1 Holy Power.][An instant strike that causes $sw2 Physical damage.]

The "Description" part is the tooltip, and that string translates to this:

If the player has spell 85673 (Word of Glory) or 85256 (Templar's Verdict), use "An instant strike that causes $sw2 Physical damage and grants 1 Holy Power" for the tooltip. Otherwise, use "An instant strike that causes $sw2 Physical damage."

We have Word of Glory, so we'll fall into the first category (all paladins will, obviously). The datamining sites occasionally don't register those conditionals properly, and thus end up indirectly sparking panic from people who blindly trust datamining (or have more paranoia than common sense).

[Snewp]

Thanks Theck, you rock.

[Deleted]

I love people always panic when the Holy Power descriptor isn't included in a patch note :P As if they're going to make a sweeping mechanical change that has the potential to break the class. Anyway, I'm not expecting buffs at all. I just don't want nerfs!

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

I love people always panic when the Holy Power descriptor isn't included in a patch note :P As if they're going to make a sweeping mechanical change that has the potential to break the class. Anyway, I'm not expecting buffs at all. I just don't want nerfs!

Yeah, it's like: "I totally believe that Blizzard is going to remove a core part of my class in a hardly-any-content patch partway through a tier". I do sometimes wonder if they are so paranoid that they get worried the world will end if a cloud appears in the sky because a meteor came through some clouds in a movie.

[Haioden]

Ive played since release and Blizzard has implemented plenty of headscratching elements to the game. I dont think people freaked out, just asking for clarification on some things. Im glad its just an update to tooltips, but for a moment I did think they where shifting more towards RNG, which im not a fan of

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

Ive played since release and Blizzard has implemented plenty of headscratching elements to the game. I dont think people freaked out, just asking for clarification on some things. Im glad its just an update to tooltips, but for a moment I did think they where shifting more towards RNG, which im not a fan of

The same exact thing happens about twice a year.

[Deleted]

As a former warlock, i remember Mop and patch 5.0 vs 5.1 when they gave us cast on move freedom what a change on the playstyle!
they can do it , in a good or wrong way (in my example was such an improvement/big change retrospectilly, and such short sight thought change at the time they did it )

[Nerraw]

As a former warlock, i remember Mop and patch 5.0 vs 5.1 when they gave us cast on move freedom what a change on the playstyle!
they can do it , in a good or wrong way (in my example was such an improvement/big change retrospectilly, and such short sight thought change at the time they did it )

Another former warlock here. The free-cast and subsequent attempts to balance around it was probably the biggest mistake they could have made to the class. Yes, it was nice. But holy crap did it make us OP. If they really wanted us to cast on the move, it should have been baseline. Or just not at all. Making it a talent was really bad.

[Vaeladin]

Anyone have issues with mobs in CM's? I was doing Auchindoun today and they were wiggly as shit, even when I was standing still. Somehow they s till manged to get behind me.

[vokey]

Did a HC trash farm to try out using Harsh Words to increase my dps but my healer was complaining about me dropping in health really fast. I did have aggro on some relatively hard hitting mobs but I was wondering if I was maybe sacrificing too much mitigation for that little bit of extra dps? Or was my healer just overreacting, which is very possible, he's not healed any raids so far (shadow main spec) so I don't think he has the complete idea on how healing is in WoD, even though he is a skilled healer.

Should I perhaps try to weave shotr and hw to try to keep up the shotr buff for as long as I can? Like for example using shotr once out of three or so times during seraphim+HA.

[Kanadei]

Did a HC trash farm to try out using Harsh Words to increase my dps but my healer was complaining about me dropping in health really fast. I did have aggro on some relatively hard hitting mobs but I was wondering if I was maybe sacrificing too much mitigation for that little bit of extra dps? Or was my healer just overreacting, which is very possible, he's not healed any raids so far (shadow main spec) so I don't think he has the complete idea on how healing is in WoD, even though he is a skilled healer.

Should I perhaps try to weave shotr and hw to try to keep up the shotr buff for as long as I can? Like for example using shotr once out of three or so times during seraphim+HA.

I'm by all means not an expert but I was under the understanding that largely you use Harsh Words for extra dps in times when you aren't directly tanking, like tank swaps or knockbacks or any time you are running around and not actively wailing on the boss. Sure, you can get a little bit of dps gain out of using HW when you should be using SotR - but the gain isn't massive and as you found out the survivability drop is noticeable.

[Xothic]

Did a HC trash farm to try out using Harsh Words to increase my dps but my healer was complaining about me dropping in health really fast. I did have aggro on some relatively hard hitting mobs but I was wondering if I was maybe sacrificing too much mitigation for that little bit of extra dps? Or was my healer just overreacting, which is very possible, he's not healed any raids so far (shadow main spec) so I don't think he has the complete idea on how healing is in WoD, even though he is a skilled healer.

Should I perhaps try to weave shotr and hw to try to keep up the shotr buff for as long as I can? Like for example using shotr once out of three or so times during seraphim+HA.

Some of the fucking trash hits harder then the bosses I swear. Shits ridiculous.

[Deleted]

I used Harsh words on this week's Mythic Twin Ogron kill to try it out - I wouldn't recommend it on anything other than Kargath and Twin Ogron, simply because those 2 bosses don't hit very hard at all - and I also would never recommend it for progress, however seeing as though I vastly outgear Twin Ogron, I just replaced my SotR bind with a WoG on target one and just used Harsh Words instead.

You do more dps, its something to consider for farm, but I wouldn't use it on any trash / bosses that hurt at any point during the fight. I also think that there are more useful glyphs for progression, but if you really want to try and play with Harsh Words while actively tanking, feel free - but I see little gain on a non-trivial encounter.

[celinamuna]

The same exact thing happens about twice a year.

I remember that time everyone was freaking out when they changed mana regen, and how we would oom in like... 30 seconds.

[Venz]

I used Harsh words on this week's Mythic Twin Ogron kill to try it out - I wouldn't recommend it on anything other than Kargath and Twin Ogron, simply because those 2 bosses don't hit very hard at all - and I also would never recommend it for progress, however seeing as though I vastly outgear Twin Ogron, I just replaced my SotR bind with a WoG on target one and just used Harsh Words instead.

You do more dps, its something to consider for farm, but I wouldn't use it on any trash / bosses that hurt at any point during the fight. I also think that there are more useful glyphs for progression, but if you really want to try and play with Harsh Words while actively tanking, feel free - but I see little gain on a non-trivial encounter.

It's definitely fun and definitely cheesy, but most of the time it feels like I'm trying too hard to make it work. It's a gain, I can't argue that, but it doesn't feel worth it.

BTW, what's up with the haste gems/enchants Astur?

[Saybel]

Quick question.

Purely from the perspective of damage done, is it better cast HW on CD or cast 2x HW during Seraphim (as their cooldowns desync).

edit: obviously this is with SW talented.

Also, aside from the obvious reglyphing and such, is there any shift in the priority system if you are expressly playing to do damage? And which T75 talent comes out on top for a sustained DPS scenario?

[Jackielope]

SW is best for sustained and consistent damage.

Using HW 2x during Seraphim... Isn't decided yet. It might depend a lot on haste levels, and Seraphim is already a bit wonky with haste because of HoPo generation and all that.

[Nerraw]

Anyone have issues with mobs in CM's? I was doing Auchindoun today and they were wiggly as shit, even when I was standing still. Somehow they s till manged to get behind me.

You're not alone. Apparently it's because of the server optimizations, the mobs react faster but it seems they still have the same "behaviour" as before, meaning that they try to predict where you'll be. So they just keep moving for a split-second longer than needed...

[Deleted]

Hi guys, a noob here.

Which one is best?

Absalom's Bloody Bulwark 655 strength shield

Maw of Souls 676 intellect shield warforjed + prismatic socket + leech

I lose -119 strength
I win +17 armor
+39 stamina
+18 haste
+16 mastery
+86 leech
+1 prismatic socket

The strength loss is too hight, right?