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  1. #161
    Bloodsail Admiral clinophobia's Avatar
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    Good job to all of you!

    Got a question, I see that everybody is doing the solo runs as Outlaw, are the other 2 speccs not good enough for soloing stuff?

  2. #162
    Bloodsail Admiral Chemii's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by clinophobia View Post
    Good job to all of you!

    Got a question, I see that everybody is doing the solo runs as Outlaw, are the other 2 speccs not good enough for soloing stuff?
    Under the right circumstances Outlaw just has better utility, self healing and consistent cleave along with better energy returns for keeping up Feint/Will Of Val.

  3. #163
    Field Marshal Saorix's Avatar
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    Can't honestly say I know what happened with this one, but of 359 pulls the perma dream-state issue (which I've still yet to hear of anyone else having this issue) only happened once. I can only guess that it had something to do with having the Descent into Madness debuff at the time of the dream-state snapshot, or maybe something to do with the snapshot occurring while elevated by DFA (DFA completely avoids some abilities like Oakheart's stomp). I might actually put in a ticket but I highly doubt they know either.


    Quote Originally Posted by clinophobia View Post
    Got a question, I see that everybody is doing the solo runs as Outlaw, are the other 2 speccs not good enough for soloing stuff?
    Mainly echoing whats already been said in terms of Outlaw v.s. the other two specs when it comes to soloing. Assassination and Sub are both viable enough for general content but Outlaw has slightly more niche factors (Artifact Traits) that make it go a little further outside of the fact that Roll the Bones sets the bar pretty high for what Outlaw can potentially do. This includes slightly better pickings when it comes to Legendaries. Will of Valeera remains pretty consistent but the 2nd Legendary slot for Outlaw is actually pretty flexible. While slightly undervalued, the Netherlight Crucible is actually a very powerful component when it comes to Rogue soloing and due to Alacrity Outlaw gets slightly higher RPPM on the proc traits like Chaotic Darkness and Shadowbind which can average well above 10% of your total healing on top of adding relatively significant DPS.
    Last edited by Saorix; 2018-06-16 at 06:35 AM.

  4. #164
    Bloodsail Admiral clinophobia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saorix View Post
    Can't honestly say I know what happened with this one, but of 359 pulls the perma dream-state issue (which I've still yet to hear of anyone else having this issue) only happened once. I can only guess that it had something to do with having the Descent into Madness debuff at the time of the dream-state snapshot, or maybe something to do with the snapshot occurring while elevated by DFA (DFA completely avoids some abilities like Oakheart's stomp). I might actually put in a ticket but I highly doubt they know either.




    Mainly echoing whats already been said in terms of Outlaw v.s. the other two specs when it comes to soloing. Assassination and Sub are both viable enough for general content but Outlaw has slightly more niche factors (Artifact Traits) that make it go a little further outside of the fact that Roll the Bones sets the bar pretty high for what Outlaw can potentially do. This includes slightly better pickings when it comes to Legendaries. Will of Valeera remains pretty consistent but the 2nd Legendary slot for Outlaw is actually pretty flexible. While slightly undervalued, the Netherlight Crucible is actually a very powerful component when it comes to Rogue soloing and due to Alacrity Outlaw gets slightly higher RPPM on the proc traits like Chaotic Darkness and Shadowbind which can average well above 10% of your total healing on top of adding relatively significant DPS.
    Oh wow the master himself answered me

    Thank you very much for the tips!

  5. #165
    I agree about Sub, but I don't know if that's necessarily true for Assassination. One thing I noticed after watching Sara's vids is that he doesn't always have Grand Melee up, and when he does, it's usually over-healing significantly. I defer to Sara's judgement, but I am interested to see what an Assassination rogue could really pull off in comparison. 12% leech is no small amount of healing. And more importantly, it's healing that's always up and doesn't require you to make any compromises in your dps rotation which is a HUGE deal in soloing that I feel cannot be emphasized enough.

  6. #166
    Field Marshal Saorix's Avatar
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    Had some slight hiccups in this pull but Skorpyron is mainly just about staying ahead of the enrage timer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhevl View Post
    I agree about Sub, but I don't know if that's necessarily true for Assassination. One thing I noticed after watching Sara's vids is that he doesn't always have Grand Melee up, and when he does, it's usually over-healing significantly. I defer to Sara's judgement, but I am interested to see what an Assassination rogue could really pull off in comparison. 12% leech is no small amount of healing. And more importantly, it's healing that's always up and doesn't require you to make any compromises in your dps rotation which is a HUGE deal in soloing that I feel cannot be emphasized enough.
    You're not wrong about Grand Melee contributing a lot to overhealing. The main problem with Legion raid boss design is that many of them have low damage with sudden huge spikes. For me, this lent to playing Outlaw as 25% leech from Grand Melee was typically enough to provide the means to quickly top back off before the next occurrence of a damage spike. The 10%(12% with MP)Leech from talents and Assassination's good sustained dps are big pros of the spec but that alone wasn't enough to sustain through most of the damage that Legion bosses are capable of outputting. What contributed to Assassination not being as competitive was the Artifact Traits. Assassination's reduced Cloak of Shadows, Evasion and Sprint CDs as far as utilities go were considerably weaker than Outlaw's Ghost in the Shell, Greed and Deception (which helps keep Will of Valeera and Elusiveness active without needing to sacrifice the GCD) traits. At the end of the day if you compare both specs and ignore the number of attempts that might be required then Outlaw is going to be able to have higher potential, which for pushing for those first kills is more important than individual pull consistency.

    With all of that said with the direction of Rogue in BFA the gap between the two specs is definitely more narrow especially with the removal of Legendaries and Artifacts which means things will shift back to pumping out as much DPS as possible with as much leech as possible much like it was during WoD. The main benefit that Outlaw will have simply goes back to being Blade Flurry, although in a slightly weaker state than it was prior.

  7. #167
    Any update now that bfa is out? I keep flipflopping between hunter and rogue. I know hunter hands down will prob beat rogue in raid soloing, but can rogues solo old stuff enough where its not too big a difference? Mostly cause outlaw has grappling hook and hunters have 0 exploration abilities is why Im so torn between the two classes. I have no plans on raiding this expansion, my first time since TBC, I wanna just play casual, enjoy the world, etc. But I want to also do old raids when I do finally hit 120 and its basically hunter + easy old stuff vs rogues + ??? old stuff and grappling hook. I want to be a VE or else it'd be a no contest and I just would have stuck with my DH.
    I do not fear death. It's just dreaming in silence.

  8. #168
    Field Marshal Jiposs's Avatar
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    Valithria Dreamwalker
    Nope

    Encounter is skippable. Anyone tried the new bandages?
    Tried this a few days ago, highest bandages will heal Valithria to full with one use.

    Any update now that bfa is out?
    Rogues do fine in old raids, depending on how 'new' you want to go. I've cleared everything up to and including Cata. Haven't really checked out MoP stuff out yet, but I doubt it'd be much of a problem.
    Definition of irony:

  9. #169
    Quote Originally Posted by Jiposs View Post
    Rogues do fine in old raids, depending on how 'new' you want to go. I've cleared everything up to and including Cata. Haven't really checked out MoP stuff out yet, but I doubt it'd be much of a problem.
    MoP is easy. I think that even some bosses in WoD are totally killable now.

  10. #170
    Quote Originally Posted by Unspunreality View Post
    I know hunter hands down will prob beat rogue in raid soloing, but can rogues solo old stuff enough where its not too big a difference?
    As a general rule, if Legacy Mode is on (that is, the stuff is 2 or more expansions old) then it's face-roll, for max-level characters. Generally, that is. On some bosses you might actually need to know what you are doing, like running to the right place so boss will transition out of invulnerability, etc. Or, perhaps more relevant to this expansion, not standing in the wrong place to prevent being stunned forever while the boss whacks at you for an hour.
    Soloing stuff that is exactly 1 expansion old can be hit-or-miss and honestly isn't recommended in any case since you don't get Legacy Loot.

    Hunters are really good, though. Besides, you can Disengage Parthian-style, which is only 30s compared to Grappling Hook's 1m. I mean, it can't take you where you can't already walk to, to be sure, but it's still nice. Also, Beast Mastery is obscenely good for soloing. Did I already mention it's good? It's really good.

    PS: oh, damn, I did not realize that was a really old post. In case you are still playing, hope that was helpful?
    Last edited by isaac2314; 2018-10-11 at 01:02 PM.
    See here for my own Mage solo (and sometimes other classes too.)
    And also see this document for my efforts at listing solo kills of every class. Please do not hesitate to message me if there is some kill I have failed to record.

  11. #171
    The Patient Mibzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jiposs View Post
    Tried this a few days ago, highest bandages will heal Valithria to full with one use.


    Rogues do fine in old raids, depending on how 'new' you want to go. I've cleared everything up to and including Cata. Haven't really checked out MoP stuff out yet, but I doubt it'd be much of a problem.
    Blackrock Foundry is easily soloed on mythic, haven't tried Hellfire yet, but I think the first boss can be a problem, with running between the cannons and not letting them die etc.
    Be strong, Clarence! Be strong for mother!

  12. #172
    Field Marshal Saorix's Avatar
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    Trying to keep the Outlaw dream alive. Usual kind of stuff. 110~ wipes, mixed feelings about Roll the Bones, might have to commit to mythic raiding again because azerite traits (I like lazy M+ gearing though).

  13. #173
    hey guys, a question: how to solo first boss in HFC (i am assassination) ?

    i know i got to get the boxes and put on cannons, but the hell, its freaking hard keeping moving all along :/

  14. #174
    Field Marshal Saorix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unforgivenn View Post
    hey guys, a question: how to solo first boss in HFC (i am assassination) ?

    i know i got to get the boxes and put on cannons, but the hell, its freaking hard keeping moving all along :/
    I'm assuming you're talking about Mythic Assault but yeah post Legion has made Hellfire Assault a little bit harder but its doable.

    One thing to keep in mind is that if you tag one mob in a given pack the rest of them will chain to you as long as they're not already engaged with the cannon. The mobs wont really do that much damage to you (assuming you're level 120) and the occasional Fan of Knives or Crimson Tempest will likely do enough to kill them. If you're having problems going from side to side fast enough and you're falling behind on the mob spawns because of it then I'd recommend picking up the ammunition crates and using the temporary speed buff that it gives you to help take care of the mob spawns first since they will snowball very quickly if you don't deal with them. The ammunition crates last quite a long time so if there are mobs up or are spawning take care of them first because there will be some moments of downtime to turn in the crates.

    As far as external things you can do to make things faster the Bear Tartare food from Legion did get nerfed but it still gives 250 speed for 6 seconds so its still far better than any other food buff and if you have gear with +speed, or azerite gear with traits like Longstrider or Footpad can also be pretty helpful.
    Last edited by Saorix; 2019-04-28 at 09:11 AM.

  15. #175
    Nice work but you need more ridiculous paragraph names!

  16. #176
    Mythic Hellfire Assault is getting nerfed to the ground when 8.2 drops, so it should be easy to solo for all classes at that point, even the ones that are more or less statues as far as mobility goes.

  17. #177
    Quote Originally Posted by Kadenzza View Post
    Mythic Hellfire Assault is getting nerfed to the ground when 8.2 drops, so it should be easy to solo for all classes at that point, even the ones that are more or less statues as far as mobility goes.
    It is already easy to solo with all classes if you know the fight and manage the speed boost from the boxes correctly.

  18. #178
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    It is already easy to solo with all classes if you know the fight and manage the speed boost from the boxes correctly.
    It was easy but still annoyingly tedious and took way too long to solo. Hell even on farm when it was current content HFA ended up being the longest fight.

  19. #179
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    It is already easy to solo with all classes if you know the fight and manage the speed boost from the boxes correctly.
    Not about the difficulty - the fight took as long as the rest of the entire raid did.

  20. #180
    Quote Originally Posted by Bennett View Post
    Not about the difficulty
    Most people hate it because of the difficulty. They cannot complete it. But they just need to learn the fight and it becomes manageable to solo with all classes.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Bennett View Post
    the fight took as long as the rest of the entire raid did.
    No it doesn't. If you one-shot it, it doesn't take long :P

    Imo it is nice with some solo-content that you can actually fail and requires a little bit of focus.

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