is the LOOT system a joke???

[h4rr0d]

The QQ is real

Form a premade group, set loot rules to Group Loot / Need before Greed.

Voila! Problem solved.

Or, unsub. I don't care.

That doesn't really work either, because you will be getting items for armor class not in your group (had it happen in all my premade runs where we forgot to swap to personal loot before first boss actually)

how is molten core, a 40 man raid with a system that dropped paladin gear for horde, even remotely related?

Vanilla instances started dropping pally gear for horde and shaman gear for alliance only after TBC preparch (which lasted for about a month iirc), so that wasn't exactly a major issue.

[Drilnos]

RNG is...well, is RNG. I ran Skyreach last night just for the ring quest and every single boss dropped an upgrade for me, and I didn't have to roll against anyone for any of it. That was nice.

[Varabently]

You should at least get one item in two runs.. damn, and he has a point, I have 3 fucking wrists I dont need, that I could of passed to someone else.

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how is molten core, a 40 man raid with a system that dropped paladin gear for horde, even remotely related?

Says the guy bringing up paladin gear for horde players. How is THAT related.

I'm just saying random is random, it's always been that way. I don't think running a few heroics without getting a piece of gear is anything to complain about. If you're expecting to get a piece of gear for every heroic you run, you're going to have a bad time.

[Wilderness]

I was running random heroics with my friend last night. We did like 5 randoms before I called it a night, I got ONE item, while he got loot from nearly every boss. The new system is an absolute joke.

Which part of the old loot system made it so someone who ran 5 heroics was guaranteed to get more than 1 item?

[grimsanta]

Vanilla instances started dropping pally gear for horde and shaman gear for alliance only after TBC preparch (which lasted for about a month iirc), so that wasn't exactly a major issue.

He's not talking about set pieces, he's talking about intellect mail and intellect plate.

[mysticx]

I did normal Skyreach (For the ring questline), and got 2 items, one of which was an actual upgrade, random loot is... what was it again?

Also, is early in the expansion, when everybody is still gearing up, not having people outroll me is a godsend...

[Trep]

I wouldn't unsub for this but I will say Personal Loot is a stupid loot system. At least with the old system loot dropped from every boss. Whether anyone could use it or not should not be an issue anymore with the way that stats work now. With gear being interchangeable between Str/Int and Agi/Int etc. I have seen dungeons where literally only one person got 1 piece of loot the whole instance. At least with Need before Greed, you could DE what people didn't want or already had resulting in none Disenchanters/(for those who are going to argue this - people without the enchanting building in their Garrison) getting almost no Mats and having to buy them ALL when they want to enchant something or rely solely on their guild for enchants.

[ColSanderz]

Of the 10-15 instances done, first 5-8 dungeons got at least one piece, once I had 4 pieces of loot total in a 5 boss instance. The remaining I got none, what did I do? Understood the personal loot system, recognize the benefits and #dealtwithit.

[darklogrus]

Seeing 1 item drop out of 15 bosses is stupid, seeing the same item drop over and over from a boss who has the ability to drop 18 different items is stupid.

[Zenfoldor]

I think it would feel better if it looked like an extra roll from raids everytime you killed a boss. Like the little slot machine spins.

[Wilderness]

Seeing 1 item drop out of 15 bosses is stupid, seeing the same item drop over and over from a boss who has the ability to drop 18 different items is stupid.

Getting 1 item out of 15 bosses happened before and it happens now. That's the R in RNG.

However, I don't like the rather large loot tables though, I have no problems running the same heroic for days trying to get the last piece or two that I need, but having a lot of possible drops adds another layer of randomness to it that I don't think is good.

I think it would feel better if it looked like an extra roll from raids everytime you killed a boss. Like the little slot machine spins.

I think that would probably be better. I think what many people are missing is that interaction with loot following a boss kill, because it just feels like nothing happened when you loot a little gold. Before even when you couldn't use the item, you at least saw it. Now you see it in your chat log, and someone said you can get the loot rolls to show somehow, but if that was just done in a pop-up like the bonus rolls I think it would provide a little better experience.

That said, I think the personal loot system is better, but they could manage it a little better to make it easier for players to see what's going on and feel involved rather than just "oh, nothing on yet another boss". People went for long times without seeing items drop before, and when they finally saw what they wanted they lost the roll to someone else. WoW isn't going to do away with the random factor in loot, they smooth the curves somewhat with bonus rolls, but loot is one of the carrots that dangles in front of players and keeps them coming back.

[Deleted]

Say hello to the loot system that got introduced due to random usually elitist scumbags thinking they need everything even if they dont. That is why you cant have what you view as good things. The loot system is working as intended since so far with it not a single item have been ninja stolen by those scumbags.

Good job blizzard to make sure we put those in place.

It was supposedly introduced to stop various loot dramas in LFR after that was first introduced in T13 (after trying other systems like greying out armour you can't wear and mainspec rolls getting +100), but the real reason (remember that they don't care about toxic behaviour) was to reduce your chances of getting everything you need in a raid (it's exactly the same as a bonus roll...low drop chance and it purposefully gives you the same item over and over) so that you keep playing longer.

Now it's there in 5-mans too, and all of a sudden the bosses have massive loot tables. I wonder why...

[nekobaka]

Reverting Default Loot Method to Need/Greed:
Going into Warlords, we wanted to try to improve the dungeon loot experience by using Raid Finder’s personal loot system that had been successful in Mists. While the personal loot system was successful in eliminating drops that weren’t usable by anyone in the group, and reducing loot contention in some cases, we’ve also heard a significant amount of player feedback about how the system feels unrewarding and unsatisfying.

In response to these concerns, we are reverting the default loot method in Dungeon Finder back to Need Before Greed. As always, players who queue with a full premade group may change group loot settings, and may use Personal loot or any other method if they so prefer. We will be evaluating how to better present and structure dungeon personal loot, and hope to re-introduce the system in the future.

Looks like there was enough feedback to warrant at least a trial back to the previous system. An earlier change to the personal loot system to show who won items was a response to help address this issue. Personal loot is a new thing for many players that are used to the previous system. Five mans are still a far more close nit personal thing even with random players than the blob of toxicity in LFR.

It is still sad that many proposed features that would help lessen the negative impact of griefers with the need before greed system will at least for now not be implemented after being abandoned after the personal loot system was introduced. I feel that for now without those features this period of testing might be ripe for griefing and filled with skewed data in part from those who want a return of personal loot.

[Deleted]

5 instances - 1 drop.
Some bosses seem to have no drops, people cant greed/pass on items I need and they dont want or already have.
Sorry but not gonna spend 4 days tanking normals for nothing. trying 2 get to ilvl610...

It was a promising expansion Blizz, shame I paid for 2 months

Thanks, your bitching have had a massively negative impact on teh game.

people like you whining have got the loot system changed from the brilliant personal loot to the idiotic need/greed system.

you should be fucking ashamed that you did this.

[Deleted]

i realy like having a 1/50 chance to get the item i actually want.. guess i will never get 630 ilvl with weapons and trinkets..

[darklogrus]

Getting 1 item out of 15 bosses happened before and it happens now. That's the R in RNG..

Wrath Cata and MoP I never went 10 dungeons without seeing a single item drop. Not to mention some of those dungeons had bosses that didnt drop anything clas specific. But WoD its 12+ items per boss and multiple bosses that drop similar items and yet nothing, its definitely a different kind of annoyance.

Reverting Default Loot Method to Need/Greed:
Going into Warlords, we wanted to try to improve the dungeon loot experience by using Raid Finder’s personal loot system that had been successful in Mists. While the personal loot system was successful in eliminating drops that weren’t usable by anyone in the group, and reducing loot contention in some cases, we’ve also heard a significant amount of player feedback about how the system feels unrewarding and unsatisfying.

In response to these concerns, we are reverting the default loot method in Dungeon Finder back to Need Before Greed. As always, players who queue with a full premade group may change group loot settings, and may use Personal loot or any other method if they so prefer. We will be evaluating how to better present and structure dungeon personal loot, and hope to re-introduce the system in the future.

Looks like there was enough feedback to warrant at least a trial back to the previous system. An earlier change to the personal loot system to show who won items was a response to help address this issue. Personal loot is a new thing for many players that are used to the previous system. Five mans are still a far more close nit personal thing even with random players than the blob of toxicity in LFR.

It is still sad that many proposed features that would help lessen the negative impact of griefers with the need before greed system will at least for now not be implemented after being abandoned after the personal loot system was introduced. I feel that for now without those features this period of testing might be ripe for griefing and filled with skewed data in part from those who want a return of personal loot.

I rolled on an item that had my stat the healer rolled on it as well when I won they whined and refused to continue because of it. The change is not one I like any better.

[nekobaka]

I rolled on an item that had my stat the healer rolled on it as well when I won they whined and refused to continue because of it. The change is not one I like any better.

To each their own. I solo queued Cata launched and enjoyed myself. The loot system was fine with the vast majority of players behaving with RNG being the pain of the system. Seeing no one get loot from a boss is just silly. Pick a random player and give them loot. Lots of loot is shared among bosses anyways which reduces the needing that one boss burden. Both systems need revamps.

At least based on the forum vocal minority, and a minority is all it takes to ruin the enjoyment of a majority, there seems to be players on the stands now to intentionally grief others in order to force the change back. When the players who complain about griefers go about saying it is acceptable to be a griefer. Hypocritical dbags all over.

[Zindai]

At least based on the forum vocal minority, and a minority is all it takes to ruin the enjoyment of a majority, there seems to be players on the stands now to intentionally grief others in order to force the change back. When the players who complain about griefers go about saying it is acceptable to be a griefer. Hypocritical dbags all over.

I agree it's retarded to start ninja rolling on things just to get a point across, even if I prefer the personal loot system. It puts us (supporters of personal loot) in a bad light and might just ruin our chances to be heard.

I find it a shame though that it was changed back. Personal loot had the benefit of: Not seeing perfectly rolled drops that no one can equip, not caring if your group has another mail/agi/1H user in it, and having a chance to upgrade your gear without slowing anyone else in their gearing.

I think the major issue is that people (judging by this thread) weren't properly informed of how it works. Close to no one had issues understanding the concept of bonus rolls in MoP being 100 % personal, but it seems that a lot of people don't transfer that idea to the personal loot system and think that it goes Drop (random # of items) -> Roll rather than Roll (random # of people) -> Drop. If they had done a better job informing people of how it works (they did that when they introduced it in LFR, but that's a long time ago), then most of the complaints in this thread would already have been weeded out and they could focus on improving the loot system rather than just giving up on it for the time being.

Overall I'm fine with both systems, and I run dungeons for fun as well as for loot. My personal issue with this is that I'm doing my daily specific heroics with a close friend of mine who happens to need a few of the same items that I do, and with personal loot we weren't punished for joining LFG together, but with group loot we're competition and would probably be better off not going together. Sure, 'go make a premade', and we will most likely do that, but nonetheless I miss the option to just queue the 2 of us and be done with it.

I also understand that people get frustrated with not seeing any loot from a boss, but that's feedback that can be looked at and worked with. The whole "I don't like this cus I got an item that my friend wanted" is not valid feedback in my opinion, because it's just not how it works.

Edit: At least it looks like they're doing what they can to improve the system and add it back as default. Can only hope it satisfies us all.

[Wilderness]

The people who wanted this change are not going to be happy with how it works out, once people start realizing that group loot combined with the large boss tables and that other people can roll against them is going to make getting loot worse, not better than it was with personal. Its a bad change.

Wrath Cata and MoP I never went 10 dungeons without seeing a single item drop. Not to mention some of those dungeons had bosses that didnt drop anything clas specific. But WoD its 12+ items per boss and multiple bosses that drop similar items and yet nothing, its definitely a different kind of annoyance.

Well, we were talking about 15 bosses, not dungeons, as that'd be far more bosses. However, the point remains that just how randomness works, I am sure that there were some really unlucky people who did go for loooong periods of time without drops. Also, with the group roll system even seeing an item drop didn't mean you'd win it, which you have to account for as well.