1. #1

    Angry WW Monks Are Simply Broken in PVP.

    Hello dear friends. I'm Nabukad, one and a half year monk player, and I wanted to discuss something that kills me inside.

    First of all, neither I am the best monk around here nor I mastered all other classes in Wow. Although I spend my whole day on WoW everyday, I still see myself as a mediocre player at best. But mediocre players can be in need of winning things as well, right? But it seems like I just picked the worst class to feed my hunger on this case. I've been playing WW monk since patch 5.4 and I have no idea how monks were like before it, but the whole time I played it, it just doesn't reward me at all.

    Me and my friend (was a warlock those times) had some real fun moments during our arena matches, but one thing always felt lacking in my class. Power. In short fights, which almost every arena we had done, WW monk is simply useless, at least not rewarding as other melee dps classes. As a monk, I have no strong finisher that can burst heavy, have no strong defensive cooldown, have no reliable crowd control in 2v1 situations so that I can burst the other fella. Let me explain.

    With the arrival of WoD, I expected Blizzard would make a cool buff to our rotation, but they didn't I think. To build my full burst, I need to stack at least 8 Tigereye Brews, which requires me to hit my jabs and blackout kicks and rising sun kicks and fists of furies, while staying alive, then use my stacks and open my rotation again, while still staying alive. Karma is the worst defensive cooldown I've ever played. When I cast it, people just switch targets, while in that short duration, I need to do all my shit. When it expires, it only leaves me 2 cooldowns, Fortifying Brew and level 75 talents. Dampen Harm almost never triggers unless there is a rogue or druid, even if it does it cannot reach its potential anytime. Diffuse Magic is real fine against casters, but only 6 seconds and if my enemies are one melee one caster, it doesnt reach its potential again. Ret paladins have that bubble to make everything just as it started new, huntards have that 2 charge of deterrance that deflects everything, druids have extraordinary self heal, even to heal his friends, enhancement shamans can heal themselves so quickly either. All this cd's can make things really easier but Karma just doesnt make it. I cannot heal myself to full or even do my damage when people constantly running away from me, or simply cc'ing when I am in karma.

    This was just the defense. Now to damage. In order to build my damage, I need at least 10 jabs, and spending those 20 chi's to reach 10 Tigereye Brew hoping every proc would double it. To spend 20 chi, I need to cast 4 Blackout Kicks, 2 Rising Sun Kicks, one Fists of Fury and a Tiger Palm. When I reach at least 5 stack, I need to do my whole combo again to finish off, if I am alive. Other melee dps classes do their normal damage just fine when they reach their target, but I need double of that time to even reach the damage they do. Tigereye Brew mechanism is so useless in 2v2 skirmishes as you see. And the mastery doesnt even help me at all. Assas rogues, subt rogues, ench shamans, arms-fury wariors, feral druids, ret palas all have simple masteries that just boosts their damage to at least %30, with no extra reqiurements. We dont have that kinda stuff, and even to reach their normal mastery bonus, we have to stay alive and do our opening. Even if we build stacks, we lack a strong finisher either. The 100 talent Hurricane Strikes looks fine but its damage turns into sh*t if there is a pet or another player.

    All these facts combined, WW monk is simply broken in Pvp. I hope Blizzard changes things as soon as possible, otherwise I'm gonna think they just created a spec for people who loves different mechanics to suffer.

    What are your thoughts on WW monks? Do you agree with me? Or do you have anything to suggest to improve my damn monk? Please comment down below, I really need it.

  2. #2
    Speaking from decent pvp experience, WW Monks are pretty broken in the opposite direction. Only for 2s though. Rarely do you see them at competitive ranks in 3s. But man they are suoer annoying to face in 2v2. I think you're just not playing to it's strengths. You get a good DK or Warrior or druid, and you just poke and run and CC and they'll take care of people no problem.

  3. #3
    They don't need any burst. They already do super high DPS in PvE. You may not open hard on a target but its consistently high.

  4. #4
    Actually when a WW is ready to burst it is pretty high - I've have FoF alone do 50-75% of a player's life. The caveat is the build up time, the (I consider easy) ease of FoF being disrupted, and the need for a bit of baby sitting. I actually feel WW is better in 3s now then 2s. The other dps and healer are better to play around WW damage cycles. WW still has good pressure but that has dropped a bit. All 3 100 talents are viable and benefit in different ways.

  5. #5
    IMO the object of your team should be giving you time to build up. The object of the other team should be killing you before you can do that.

    WW has long ramp time but once we get there people better run.

  6. #6
    I am Murloc! Terahertz's Avatar
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    It's not really broken, it's just god damn clunky is all.

    Glyph of ToK STILL not baseline. Glyph of Freedom Roll being made a glyph? Those glyphs alone make WW monk clunky and broken. Get rid of tyhe Glyph of ToK and you can pick the glyph that increases the range of FoF by 5 yds.

    I don't get why blizzard doesn't make that shit baseline. The fact that those glyphs are 100% and absolutely mandatory is simply stupid. It's also damn frustrating that I no longer have an instant heal when every melee hybrid has one. Not to mention our freakish set bonuses which don't make any sense. The roll one is only ever used when tunneling a healer anyways since most of the time you have chi when being kited anyways and the +3 sec on TeB is just a slap in the face.

    I want my f-ing healing spheres back or make our set bonus make Surging Mist instant cast after you use a Roll. Idk, just f-ing something. Surging Mist is already a pathetic excuse of a heal, doing less than any other heal in the game.

    Not to mention freaking Fists of FURIOUS-ly frustration. That thing is the most frustratingly, difficult, clunky shit I've seen in WoW. In MoP it was OK because of its range, but now I have to either paralyze or root my target in order to use it. It's literally impossible to land on a hunter with master's call up. It should have a 10 yard baseline as well as an Entangling Root-type of thing where I don't even need to freaking face my character to the person. This would mean I only need to have a target which would serve as the indication for the game which target to do full damage on.

    Or give it the Spinning Crane Kick treatment. You move at a slower pace while channeling FoF but at least you can move around with it. I can't see how this would even be OP when people could easily walk away from you when you're moving slowly, but it would be something so I can use FoF while moving and don't have to stand still IN MELEE RANGE in order to channel my FoF.

    Also 45 Jab cost 'nuff said

  7. #7
    Epic! Volibear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ermahgerd View Post
    It's not really broken, it's just god damn clunky is all.

    Glyph of ToK STILL not baseline. Glyph of Freedom Roll being made a glyph? Those glyphs alone make WW monk clunky and broken. Get rid of tyhe Glyph of ToK and you can pick the glyph that increases the range of FoF by 5 yds.

    I don't get why blizzard doesn't make that shit baseline. The fact that those glyphs are 100% and absolutely mandatory is simply stupid. It's also damn frustrating that I no longer have an instant heal when every melee hybrid has one. Not to mention our freakish set bonuses which don't make any sense. The roll one is only ever used when tunneling a healer anyways since most of the time you have chi when being kited anyways and the +3 sec on TeB is just a slap in the face.

    I want my f-ing healing spheres back or make our set bonus make Surging Mist instant cast after you use a Roll. Idk, just f-ing something. Surging Mist is already a pathetic excuse of a heal, doing less than any other heal in the game.

    Not to mention freaking Fists of FURIOUS-ly frustration. That thing is the most frustratingly, difficult, clunky shit I've seen in WoW. In MoP it was OK because of its range, but now I have to either paralyze or root my target in order to use it. It's literally impossible to land on a hunter with master's call up. It should have a 10 yard baseline as well as an Entangling Root-type of thing where I don't even need to freaking face my character to the person. This would mean I only need to have a target which would serve as the indication for the game which target to do full damage on.

    Or give it the Spinning Crane Kick treatment. You move at a slower pace while channeling FoF but at least you can move around with it. I can't see how this would even be OP when people could easily walk away from you when you're moving slowly, but it would be something so I can use FoF while moving and don't have to stand still IN MELEE RANGE in order to channel my FoF.

    Also 45 Jab cost 'nuff said
    Glyph of ToK
    Glyph of Freedom Roll
    Glyph of Floating Butterfly (Fixes your issue of AMG I CAN'T MOVE AND CHANNEL)

    What else do you need?
    Last edited by Volibear; 2014-11-23 at 10:04 PM.
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  8. #8
    Herald of the Titans Putin-Chan's Avatar
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    Stop bitching about your strong class and be thankful you're not a shaman

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Volibear View Post
    Glyph of ToK
    Glyph of Freedom Roll
    Glyph of Floating Butterfly (Fixes your issue of AMG I CAN'T MOVE AND CHANNEL)

    What else do you need?
    Glyph of ToK is used by pretty much every WW in PvE and PvP. That means it should be baseline. ToK sucks without the glyph. Glyph of floating butterfly makes it possible for the enemy to run away when you start using it... which is exactly what anyone with any sense is going to do... or they will just CC you and stop the channeling that way.

    I don't pvp but it isn't hard to see the problems.

  10. #10
    Deleted
    In PvP, you'd use Karma for reliability (a defensive cooldown should be used regardless of where the enemy is) and Touch of Death for consistency (if you need to execute, you need to execute in the exact split second somebody reaches 10% health).

    Now usually in Mop Monks took Paralysis most of the time because from what was left it was the better choice.
    However, having the 2 and 4 PvP bonus set baked into glyphs and being remade into uselessness was not exactly a pleasant experience.

    How?
    Because Karma and Death are still required for both reliability and consistency, and Paralysis is still handy to have. And Monks faced a number of changes.
    Namely,
    Fists of Fury requiring a target
    which wasn't really needed given the high mechanical requirements of the class. This adds to clunkiness since you can't really predict your opponent's movement and place a good FoF anymore.
    Floating Butterfly doesn't fix anything either: FoF is used for cc too, we need it to stun or it's easily outranged, essentially making our damage moot.

    As it stands, glyphs are too many and too useful to make proper choices. You'd end up having to change and swap more often than not. Which can be fun, I won't deny it.
    Still.

    At op,
    Revise your choices. You can't complain that you get swapped off when you pop Karma, it's the way defensives are supposed to work, they give you time to breathe.
    If you've got ramp up issues, use Chi Brew and pop a 4stack, start building pressure from there.

    And for the love of god, don't take Hurricane Strike. It may have been good when it gave 3s or so immunity to damage, but as it stands it's a poor man version of Killing Spree.
    Try going Serenity or Chi Explosion, although I'd advise the former since your main issue seems to be the ability of going all in as soon as possible.

    Better yourself and you'll better the quality of the game you play.
    Last edited by mmoca7e1e78f4f; 2014-11-24 at 07:35 AM.

  11. #11
    Epic! Volibear's Avatar
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    So having more than three glyph choices is bad? Are you serious?

    You have OPTIONS. The whole point of the game is to choose between the options you have. So don't complain, change glyphs as you need to, to compete against some classes.

    WW is already strong, making some of their glyphs baseline will just imbalance us further.
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    Brolibear!
    Quote Originally Posted by RICH816 View Post
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  12. #12
    Making ToK glyph baseline wouldn't imbalance anything and it would be just a good QoL improvement. Glyphs are intended to be a choice and in case of ToK it is virtually mandatory. In pvp also ToD glyph is pretty much mandatory so it leaves room for one glyph choice.

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