Blizzard: "Shamans are fine, STFU"

[Deleted]

My statement still stands. Melee classes are far and away better than casters right now.

And I didnt they you are wrong. Because in reality (the actual raiding world, outside of LFR-nhc), some melees and some casters are still better than they should be. Namely - retris, hunters, demo locks, frost mages, balance druids. Be it by simple numbers or amount of utility or just better class mechanics.

Whatsoever, (Elemental) Shaman will never top anyone by numbers, utitlity or mechanics. Welcome to WoW - where we were promised balance while they took our movement, utility and our cleave niche away, and now they're happy with us being 10-20% behind.

[Deleted]

My statement still stands. Melee classes are far and away better than casters right now.

edit: Ok i wont say far and away. But nor are casters far and away higher than melee. theres a mix of glad/feral/ww and MM/Demo/Frost at the top. Pick and choose. Theyre all interchangeable.

and, so do i.

No not all melees are top and not all ranged are bad.

It's currently a mixture, with 3 melees and MM hunters at the top, followed by several casters (boomkin, shadow, warlock) followed by the next pack (Mages, rogues, dks, elementals, glad warriors) - and at the bottom enhancers (and fury warriors, but they simply spec Glad for now).

It's not like "MELEE" is better or "RANGED" is better. Though if you look at mechanics, Ranged will always be preferred. Just look at the Grouping tools or Guild Recruting - you need a lot of ranged to kill the bosses. You don't need melees as they generally lack behind in mechanics, boss uptime and so on.

[failbringer]

You're the worlds best ele shaman then since nobody else did.

ROFL. Man I love when people get called out on their lies. Well done.

[Qlix]

No not all melees are top and not all ranged are bad.

It's currently a mixture, with 3 melees and MM hunters at the top, followed by several casters (boomkin, shadow, warlock) followed by the next pack (Mages, rogues, dks, elementals, glad warriors) - and at the bottom enhancers (and fury warriors, but they simply spec Glad for now).

It's not like "MELEE" is better or "RANGED" is better. Though if you look at mechanics, Ranged will always be preferred. Just look at the Grouping tools or Guild Recruting - you need a lot of ranged to kill the bosses. You don't need melees as they generally lack behind in mechanics, boss uptime and so on.

I would actually disagree on mechanics favoring ranged right now. At least the way we've done fights (1 or 2 shot everything in Heroic, 0 pulls on Imperator yet). Our strats are heavily favoring melee other than the last 2 bosses (and the occasional situation where ranged get a haste shroom on Brackenspore and melee cant)

[Protoman]

No not all melees are top and not all ranged are bad.

It's currently a mixture, with 3 melees and MM hunters at the top, followed by several casters (boomkin, shadow, warlock) followed by the next pack (Mages, rogues, dks, elementals, glad warriors) - and at the bottom enhancers (and fury warriors, but they simply spec Glad for now).

It's not like "MELEE" is better or "RANGED" is better. Though if you look at mechanics, Ranged will always be preferred. Just look at the Grouping tools or Guild Recruting - you need a lot of ranged to kill the bosses. You don't need melees as they generally lack behind in mechanics, boss uptime and so on.

Yea, its always a mix.... not just melee or ranged. I've seen both MM Hunters and WW Monks at the top, so yea.

The class/specs I see at the bottom and look like they need some buffs are: Enh Sham, Arms/Fury Warr, Fire/Arcane Mages.

Not sure how much that will change since this is still the first week and plenty of testing and data will be coming in over the weekend.

[Deleted]

I would actually disagree on mechanics favoring ranged right now. At least the way we've done fights (1 or 2 shot everything in Heroic, 0 pulls on Imperator yet). Our strats are heavily favoring melee other than the last 2 bosses (and the occasional situation where ranged get a haste shroom on Brackenspore and melee cant)

Our guild roster for mythic currently is

2 Tanks
4-5 Healers
5-6 Melees
8-9 Ranged

I dont think we have a uncommon roster. A lot of raids will try to stack ranged, as always.

My problem is: we have 9 melees (2 retris, 1 warrior, 1 dk, 1 enhancer, 2 rogues, 1 ww, 1 feral). Based on what should my raid take me to Kargath, Butcher and Brankenspore progress? I'm far underperforming on all bosses so far.

As it stands, for progression, our ww and feral have their place absolutely sure. 1 retri for sure too, probably both. The dk will be taken for sure too and 1 rogue too.

There's no place anymore for me. It's not only about minmaxing alone, the problem is we are THAT far behind that there's no chance i'm gonna be taken.

That's why i'm getting hysterical right now. I feel like i'm forced to reroll - but that's not that easy at that stage.

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Yea, its always a mix.... not just melee or ranged. I've seen both MM Hunters and WW Monks at the top, so yea.

The class/specs I see at the bottom and look like they need some buffs are: Enh Sham, Arms/Fury Warr, Fire/Arcane Mages.

Not sure how much that will change since this is still the first week and plenty of testing and data will be coming in over the weekend.

The thing is: i'm losing my raid spot. I was already asked if i wanted to switch my char.

That's it. I suspect in its current state, i'm not viable for 5 bosses, possibly 6. That's the pure horror for me.

And we came from 25m raiding, so our roster is somewhat too big. It's very tough to get a raid spot for mythic later.

[BetrayedOf52]

I brought 3 shamans to my 25 man team. WE killed quite a few bosses. but I just don't see me keeping them on the team for heroic / mythic if they don't buff them. My entire team was 16-18k+ hunters and WW at 20k+ warrior about 15k. and shamans pulling 12-13k. These are people who know how to play their class and are 637+.

[Deleted]

I brought 3 shamans to my 25 man team. WE killed quite a few bosses. but I just don't see me keeping them on the team for heroic / mythic if they don't buff them. My entire team was 16-18k+ hunters and WW at 20k+ warrior about 15k. and shamans pulling 12-13k. These are people who know how to play their class and are 637+.

If they are 637+ and only pulling 12-13k then they 100% do NOT know their class.
At 638 I was holding steady at 18/19k

[Shear]

I'm far underperforming on all bosses so far.
The thing is: i'm losing my raid spot. I was already asked if i wanted to switch my char.

If youre underperforming on Kargath, i can bet you your guild didnt send you up the chain did they? i swear to god if they sent MM hunters ima slap a bitch...

You have the strongest aoe in game...abuse the fuck out of it. get on the chain and top meters, i did just that.
even on Imperator, me and our prot pally solo'd the adds because of aoe. If your guild wont let you abuse your aoe...then they arent using enhances greatness to its full potential. I ended our Kargath with 23k, butcher at 22k, tectus at 26k, brac at 20k and Imerator at 27k
warcraftlogs.com/rankings/report/Jgp8f4h67FHyb3Dw#

We arent in a HORRIBLE position, single target is a bit on the low side i admit...but its not worth rerolling imo. i switched TOO enhance for the xpac, not about to give it up, i love playing enhance

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If they are 637+ and only pulling 12-13k then they 100% do NOT know their class.
At 638 I was holding steady at 18/19k

I completely agree...they are missing some key mechanics of enhance I can say the same, at around 635-640ish i was pulling around 18k as well

[Deleted]

If youre underperforming on Kargath, i can bet you your guild didnt send you up the chain did they? i swear to god if they sent MM hunters ima slap a bitch...

You have the strongest aoe in game...abuse the fuck out of it. get on the chain and top meters, i did just that.
even on Imperator, me and our prot pally solo'd the adds because of aoe. If your guild wont let you abuse your aoe...then they arent using enhances greatness to its full potential. I ended our Kargath with 23k, butcher at 22k, tectus at 26k, brac at 20k and Imerator at 27k
warcraftlogs.com/rankings/report/Jgp8f4h67FHyb3Dw#

We arent in a HORRIBLE position, single target is a bit on the low side i admit...but its not worth rerolling imo. i switched TOO enhance for the xpac, not about to give it up, i love playing enhance

The issue with that, is the mobs die before you can get any aoe out. I was on add duty last night and i literally got 1 fire nova out before they died. Any good guild is sending 2/3 good aoe players up so the adds die in seconds.

[Sicarius87]

I'm constantly outdamaged by any other class out there. THe times I'm not bottom DPS is when people are just playing badly.

I'm so sick and tired of my class being so horrendously shafted.

Hi, Im a rogue.

[Deleted]

For mythic raiding there is almost no reasons to bring a rogue over a hunter pfff...

[BetrayedOf52]

If they are 637+ and only pulling 12-13k then they 100% do NOT know their class.
At 638 I was holding steady at 18/19k

Two eles was 12-13k, the enhance was 16k

[Deleted]

Two eles was 12-13k, the enhance was 16k

That's still very sub-par. You should check their logs and make sure they are playing properly

[Qlix]

Yeah enhance up the chains is a joke right now given how short things live, MAYBE its better on Mythic, but we'll get left behind anyways so it doesnt matter .

[miffy23]

I brought 3 shamans to my 25 man team. WE killed quite a few bosses. but I just don't see me keeping them on the team for heroic / mythic if they don't buff them. My entire team was 16-18k+ hunters and WW at 20k+ warrior about 15k. and shamans pulling 12-13k. These are people who know how to play their class and are 637+.

I'm sorry tell your shamans to shape up. Even with utter crap Ele trinkets in 630ish I easily managed 17-18k on butcher, even 17ish on Tectus with the AoEing later.
12-13k in 637+ is embarassing.

[hidey0shi]

You know nothing is going to get changed when the lead game designer, who plays a shaman himself, says the class is fine.

[Fang7986]

Really?
WoL is showing more Ele logs than WCL

For Kargath
WOL=158 vs WCL=54


Still...the sample size is abysmal to really make good assumptions.

And Blizz has logs of every single fight not just the couple hundred you guys are talking about. Don't complain unless you have access to all of the data.

[Qlix]

And Blizz has logs of every single fight not just the couple hundred you guys are talking about. Don't complain unless you have access to all of the data.

Apparently the corner stones of the shaman community agreeing with the stance that the spec is in an abysmal state means nothing then. K!

[TheTieThatBinds]

You know nothing is going to get changed when the lead game designer, who plays a shaman himself, says the class is fine.

This......