Is 10M Heroic butcher impossible?

[tenaciouzd]

Avg DPS from 5 dps = 18118
Avg Heals from 3 healers = 30,817

Best pull 36%

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pes=1&cutoff=1

Any input appreciated.

[Nerraw]

Your dps needs to do more dps. It's that simple. Saw someone do some math the other day that indicated that the average dps from the dps should be around 19-20k if you want to make it just in time for the enrage.

[Gihelle]

I can't really help much because none of you play my main class, but average of 16k damage is just too low.

On our kill I did 19k DPS while triggering cleaves as a ranged (so I was moving a LOT and losing a lot of damage).

[Sheridanjohn]

Doable with like 18k dps, not too hard.
You have too many healers, should be like 1 in ~5. Also dps is underperforming for their ilvl.

[Okacz]

16,5k dps per a dps is just bad, as long as your raiders are actually geared for this fight. If they are above 635 you shoul expect them to deal over 20k on this fight.

[lokithor]

Sorry, not with that Dps it isn't. he seems to have a pretty tight enrage, and the soft enrage at 30% can be pretty rough.

We actually had to cut 4 dps and a healer when we were 25 manning it and they were pulling 17k dps. Don't remember what the healer was doing.

[Nilinor]

We were having issues earlier, then I came up with a brilliant idea - Granted it was sub 30% but could be helped.

His jump is the furthest person at range, what we did was sent a pally out alone, he jumped to the pally, who bubbled, did no damage, then walked back to us.. the first attempt we did that, we beat it.

[lokithor]

Your dps needs to do more dps. It's that simple. Saw someone do some math the other day that indicated that the average dps from the dps should be around 19-20k if you want to make it just in time for the enrage.

yeah we technically didnt beat the enrage when we downed him (everyone was dead except 2 of us)

[tenaciouzd]

Im personally at 20-22k before i die and my dots keep ticking after death. So assume I am ok, its the others that need to pick it up? ( I am epidx glad warrior in the logs)

[Jellospally]

Your hunter is playing wrong: Never use Barrage single target(its actually worse than no talent) Use Glaive Toss single target. At that Ilvl he really should be doing about 20-21k. He needs to max his spell usage better.

Your Mage is def playing wrong: 2 Prismatic Crystals... this has a 1.5m cd. You wiped at 4:55. That is literally impossible to cast 2 without just ignoring it.

Your Prot Pally: Should be using Seraphim.. he could easily be doing 5k+ more dps and still taking about the same damage if he plays well Seraphim > Double SoR > DP > Seraphim rotation.

Your Rogue: only had 79% uptime on SnD..?!?!?!?! How? He had a huge gap of it during lust just not being up.

Your DK: Is Death Striking... ?!?!?!

A BIG ISSUE IS 4 HEALING?!?!?! You should probably 2-3 heal at MOST. We 5 healed 27 man... Not sure why you are 4 healing 11.

You guys have the Ilvl but your dps are not playing well.. except that Glad war is at least doing decent dps and 4 healing is holding you back REALLY hard.

[tenaciouzd]

Your hunter is playing wrong: Never use Barrage single target(its actually worse than no talent) Use Glaive Toss single target. At that Ilvl he really should be doing about 20-21k. He needs to max his spell usage better.

Your Mage is def playing wrong: 2 Prismatic Crystals... this has a 1.5m cd. You wiped at 4:55. That is literally impossible to cast 2 without just ignoring it.

Your Prot Pally: Should be using Seraphim.. he could easily be doing 5k+ more dps and still taking about the same damage if he plays well Seraphim > Double SoR > DP > Seraphim rotation.

Your Rogue: only had 79% uptime on SnD..?!?!?!?! How? He had a huge gap of it during lust just not being up.

Your DK: Is Death Striking... ?!?!?!

A BIG ISSUE IS 4 HEALING?!?!?! You should probably 2-3 heal at MOST. We 5 healed 27 man... Not sure why you are 4 healing 11.

You guys have the Ilvl but your dps are not playing well.. except that Glad war is at least doing decent dps and 4 healing is holding you back REALLY hard.

We 4 healed 1 attempt to see if it would make it easier as healers were going oom. AS you can see the 4th healers heal was very low compared ot the 3 others, and the healers said even with that bad amount of healing it was noticeably easier.

[Sheridanjohn]

Tell your mage to go Ice Nova > unstable magic. Also He needs to use his prismatic more, he's using it at around 50% atm. He hasn't used his water jet (water elemental) once.
He's playing terribly inefficiently atm, could easlily do 19k with these changes.

I wouldn't be surprised if most of your raid is playing poorly. see if you can get some other classes to look at the logs and point out major mistakes being made.

[Lothrik]

You're not supposed to Bloodlust on the opener here. Save it for the Frenzy phase at 30%. Coordinate cooldowns properly during that phase so your tanks and cleave soakers don't die.

I'm not really sure what to suggest honestly. Your group simply is not doing anywhere near enough DPS for this fight, and your healers are also struggling quite heavily even before the "hard" part of the fight starts at 30%.

A good discipline priest or holy paladin would make the healers job significantly easier, but running 4 healers and 5 DPS would only make the DPS check higher.

[Nerraw]

We 4 healed 1 attempt to see if it would make it easier as healers were going oom. AS you can see the 4th healers heal was very low compared ot the 3 others, and the healers said even with that bad amount of healing it was noticeably easier.

The thing is that with every extra person in the raid, the boss scales up too. So while the healing might have been easier, the dps would have needed to really pump out of extra juice if you wanted to kill it.

[tenaciouzd]

You're not supposed to Bloodlust on the opener here. Save it for the Frenzy phase at 30%. Coordinate cooldowns properly during that phase so your tanks and cleave soakers don't die.

I'm not really sure what to suggest honestly. Your group simply is not doing anywhere near enough DPS for this fight, and your healers are also struggling quite heavily even before the "hard" part of the fight starts at 30%.

A good discipline priest or holy paladin would make the healers job significantly easier, but running 4 healers and 5 DPS would only make the DPS check higher.

We did it on the last pull to see if we could get to 30% to see what we would need to setup when we hit 30% when the real fight starts, the other pulls it was never used.

[Lothrik]

We did it on the last pull to see if we could get to 30% to see what we would need to setup when we hit 30% when the real fight starts, the other pulls it was never used.

I'd also suggest splitting the cleave more consistently as going to 4 stacks of Gushing Wounds in the opener when you can swap at 2 is just silly.

Bottom line though the fight is a straight DPS check. It's definitely killable with the group you have, but going in with no absorb healer (and no real external damage reduction to speak of) is going to be rather punishing.

[Dracodraco]

Your hunter is playing wrong: Never use Barrage single target(its actually worse than no talent) Use Glaive Toss single target. At that Ilvl he really should be doing about 20-21k. He needs to max his spell usage better.

Your Mage is def playing wrong: 2 Prismatic Crystals... this has a 1.5m cd. You wiped at 4:55. That is literally impossible to cast 2 without just ignoring it.

Your Prot Pally: Should be using Seraphim.. he could easily be doing 5k+ more dps and still taking about the same damage if he plays well Seraphim > Double SoR > DP > Seraphim rotation.

Your Rogue: only had 79% uptime on SnD..?!?!?!?! How? He had a huge gap of it during lust just not being up.

Your DK: Is Death Striking... ?!?!?!

A BIG ISSUE IS 4 HEALING?!?!?! You should probably 2-3 heal at MOST. We 5 healed 27 man... Not sure why you are 4 healing 11.

You guys have the Ilvl but your dps are not playing well.. except that Glad war is at least doing decent dps and 4 healing is holding you back REALLY hard.

Urh. Hunter dps is low, but it's not because of the talent. Barrage is within ~100 dps of glaive toss when used correctly on a single target, and pulls ahead of glaive toss when there's more than one target. Sure, you could say it's better with glaive on butcher, but telling people it's worse than no talent is just straight up retarded. Since the 6.0 buff, Barrage has been retardedly strong.
That said he should be doing way more damage at 645.

[tenaciouzd]

I believe I am the lowest ilvl dps in the raid. Unfortunately I will probably be 3rd to get most pieces that drop in the raid as there is only 6 truly best optimized pieces for my spec, which are good for tanks and I think they plan to to give to tanks first to help progression. I essentially am resorting to buying 655 boe epics from ah for 50K+ each to do what I can to make it better.

[Lothrik]

I believe I am the lowest ilvl dps in the raid. Unfortunately I will probably be 3rd to get most pieces that drop in the raid as there is only 6 truly best optimized pieces for my spec, which are good for tanks and I think they plan to to give to tanks first to help progression. I essentially am resorting to buying 655 boe epics from ah for 50K+ each to do what I can to make it better.

Giving gear to tanks over DPS does not help progression in 99% of cases, *especially* when that DPS is your top performer. Honestly I would consider looking for a new guild if I were you.

[Alphabrain]

Doing under 15k in Normal is pretty bad yet alone Heroics imo.

Did my first guild run of Highmaul last night and I was doing around 20k DPS as Glad Stance.

Tell your raiders to do more missions with Followers. I got 3 645 pieces from Missions and 1 655 Trinket from a Highmaul Mission.
The only gold I spent was for Savage Bloods to upgrade my 640 shoulders to 655.

Heroic Kargath is easy but The Butcher is a different story, I would wait til you guys can clear 7/7 Normal.