Shadow pvp. Am I being a fool?

[Deleted]

Ok, normally I'm playing a hunter but because of recent events in pvp, especially bgs, I realized I don't stand a chance in hell as hunter against burst of skill rogues and non-retarded ferals (and considering the low level areas, a tide of ferals will be hitting pvp pretty soon and not all are retarded), and also I have no defenses against melee zergs at all - I just get slowed, disengage is useless as I instantly get charged again, stunned, deathgripped etc, no escape, not even time to breath.

Considering shadow priest for casual pvp: wpvp, duels and random bgs, no high rated arenas or anything.

I find it pretty fun to play but am I setting myself up for a pain train in pvp at 100 as shadow? Are there any classes that poop all over shadow?

[Yvaelle]

Like... if you can't deal with rogues and ferals on a hunter - with disengage, endless snares, roots, stuns, traps, and deterrences - and twice shadow's armor - rolling Shadow isn't going to fix the problem you hope to address.

If rogue/ferals are what you're really annoyed by - focus on learning hunter IMO (no offense) - good hunters are arguably the strongest class in the game versus melee: rogues/ferals included.

With track hidden and flare, you shouldn't be getting opened on from stealth - that alone is a colossal advantage versus stealthers that you will lose by going any other class/spec. With practice kiting you should be able to keep just about any melee at range almost indefinitely once you open that gap - rogues/ferals might burst/shift to try to catch, but you need to just keep reapplying snares, 40-yarding, and never stop moving away.

Now, with that said - if you really enjoy shadow, I encourage you to give it a whirl - but definitely do not expect rerolling Shadow to make you better versus rogues/ferals (the opposite, very much the opposite). Shadow is a healer-killer, melee are our counter.

[Aurlon]

I'm willing to bet OP that you're talking about engagements that don't involve a healer.

If a hunter has a healer at their back they are one of the strongest classes in the game (as Yvaelle rightly said). When they don't, they're a complete joke - probably the worst 1v1 class in the game right now. Edit: except mages, sorry mages.

If that isn't your thing (and it certainly isn't mine) then you could pretty much roll anything and perform better than a hunter.

[Deleted]

Like... if you can't deal with rogues and ferals on a hunter - with disengage, endless snares, roots, stuns, traps, and deterrences - and twice shadow's armor - rolling Shadow isn't going to fix the problem you hope to address.

If rogue/ferals are what you're really annoyed by - focus on learning hunter IMO (no offense) - good hunters are arguably the strongest class in the game versus melee: rogues/ferals included.

With track hidden and flare, you shouldn't be getting opened on from stealth - that alone is a colossal advantage versus stealthers that you will lose by going any other class/spec. With practice kiting you should be able to keep just about any melee at range almost indefinitely once you open that gap - rogues/ferals might burst/shift to try to catch, but you need to just keep reapplying snares, 40-yarding, and never stop moving away.

Now, with that said - if you really enjoy shadow, I encourage you to give it a whirl - but definitely do not expect rerolling Shadow to make you better versus rogues/ferals (the opposite, very much the opposite). Shadow is a healer-killer, melee are our counter.

Sorry but you're very much wrong. There is nothing a hunter can do against a rogue using Burst of Speed, and all rogues use it right now. Conc shot being useless and them being on a speed boost 24/7 doesn't allow for a lot room to maneuver for a class that relies on slows for kiting. Sure you can get a few seconds to breathe here and there but a rogue will always be on you if he wants to. I actually find ferals slightly more manageable than rogues atm but can't beat them either no matter what I do.

I had most success as Survival because it has traps on 12 sec but it does so little damage that you're not an actual threat. And had it worst as MM, where you have the damage but you're even more vulnerable to being focused - in bgs whenever I have more than one melee on me, I just take my hands off the kb as there is diddly squat I can do besides disengaging or explosive trapping only to get charged again or gripped or stunned by some ranged stun.

And no, in bgs and wpvp you can't set up with flare and traps, just as you can't expect a warlock to set up a gate even though it would help alot.

I'm willing to bet OP that you're talking about engagements that don't involve a healer.

If a hunter has a healer at their back they are one of the strongest classes in the game (as Yvaelle rightly said). When they don't, they're a complete joke - probably the worst 1v1 class in the game right now. Edit: except mages, sorry mages.

If that isn't your thing (and it certainly isn't mine) then you could pretty much roll anything and perform better than a hunter.

Yes, I have noticed hunters are terrible in 1v1 as any spec really, except against warriors and mages but then hunters always countered warriors and mages. I played a hunter in MoP but this, this wod hunter is nothing like that.

Seems priest is the best 1v1 ranged class atm. Warlocks not having the utility and defensives and mages and elem shamans being garbage tier. Ofcourse there is boomkin but I just don't understand its dps mechanics with that solar/lunar eclipse and shit.

And melee classes just bore me.

[Yvaelle]

Sorry but you're very much wrong.

>.> What's the point of coming to a forum to ask for advice when you dismiss it immediately. I am not trying to offend your abilities as a hunter, but I assure you hunters are far more capable versus melee than you seem to think.

There is nothing a hunter can do against a rogue using Burst of Speed, and all rogues use it right now.

Apart from:
Disengage - 20 second gap opener
Narrow Escape - 8 second root following Disengage (8s every 20s)
Binding Shot - 5s stun every 45 seconds
Deterrence - 5s immunity every 3m, 2 charges
Freezing Trap - 8s CC every 30s, yes they can disarm it - you can however drop it at your feet during combat and force them to back off or freeze
Ice Trap - 50% snare with 100% uptime that cannot be broken by Burst of Speed or powershifting, and can be glyphed to provide 50% runspeed while crossing it
Master's Call - 4 second snare removal and immunity - which allows you to disengage out of range of the rogue/feral, then master's call out of their snares and stay too far away for them to reapply
Concussion Shot - 50% snare for 6 seconds every 5 seconds (100% uptime), yes it can be BoS/shifted, but BoS isn't free - if a rogue has to BoS repeatedly to get to you, they cannot attack or control you once in range

You would be hard-pressed to find any spec of any class in the game that has as many tools as hunters do to deal with melee: certainly not priests.

Sure you can get a few seconds to breathe here and there but a rogue will always be on you if he wants to.

If melee had the choice, I assure you they would prefer to have 100% uptime - they are not choosing to be disengaged from or rooted.

I had most success as Survival because it has traps on 12 sec but it does so little damage that you're not an actual threat. And had it worst as MM, where you have the damage but you're even more vulnerable to being focused

Try BM like 99% of hunters. The other 1% is Lone Wolf MM hunters, on RBG teams, who are not assigned to solo node defense.

in bgs whenever I have more than one melee on me, I just take my hands off the kb as there is diddly squat I can do besides disengaging or explosive trapping only to get charged again or gripped or stunned by some ranged stun.

2v1'ing people isn't supposed to be easy, but it would be easier with your hands on the keyboard (note: 'hands' plural... you use a mouse, right?).

And no, in bgs and wpvp you can't set up with flare and traps,

Yes you can.

just as you can't expect a warlock to set up a gate even though it would help alot.

I fully expect warlocks to use their gateways.

I played a hunter in MoP but this, this wod hunter is nothing like that.

What changed?

Warlocks not having the utility and defensives

Warlocks are pretty squishy right now, but they still have incredible utility.

and mages and elem shamans being garbage tier.

Mages are FOTM amazing right now.

Is it just that you wanted somewhere to vent about how much you think hunters suck? Because of all the places to do that - the priest forum is probably the weirdest.

[Deleted]

Agreed with Yvaelle. OP seems to think that he should be able to keep melee at range for the whole fight.

[SilvaAger]

Hunters beat rogues and ferals as survival, but no other spec. To clear that up.

[Packing an i5]

im new to the priest class i chose to learn disc over shadow.. shadow seems much much harder to stay alive when being trained by most melee especially rogues and ferals.

Shadow was really fun in Bgs sniping people that were low with shadow word death but if just 1 melee got on me it was pretty much over.


I just cant imagine playing shadow in arenas.

Like others have said if u want to play ranged who is good at fending off melee there is no better choice than hunter and they are really strong right now. Most hunters I run into are marksman which has really strong burst.

my Hunter is still 90 I played Bm on her in mop I want to play surv on her but they took away killshot from that spec so it doesnt feel as powerful.

[Cempa]

To be honest as some one who's an average PvP player (2.3 last season as a affliction / 2k as shadow) hunter can deal with melee much easier...While SV can not be killed and puts out solid pressure...MM can survive just fine with in a team setting...Higher rated games I have no idea..

[TiagoRamos]

Playing a DK sometimes fighting SP's is really hard... because of the defense abilities/heals , fear, allied to bad dks mobility sometimes i get kitted aswell.
I beleive SP is in a better state than last season tbh

[Yvaelle]

I beleive SP is in a better state than last season tbh

Definitely

I quite like Shadow PvP right now - the biggest three changes are:
(1) a reduced Mind Blast cooldown (via CoP) and it becoming instant - allowing us to continue to build our resource (orbs) reliably without risk of good players continually timing control and interrupts to block mind blasts and deny our burst. Our armor and heals are weaker than last season - and we lost Psyfiend (and have to choose between Psychic Scream and Void Tendrils now) - but;
(2) the 5 orb capacity, and;
(3) the orb regen following Psy Horror are massive positives to our quality of life that make Shadow much more enjoyable (but not necessarily stronger).

I'm not sure we are in a better state in terms of our capability - because Shatreeplay was a rank 1 capable comp last season - but we're certainly in a much more enjoyable state

One thing I am saddened about is the hit to Shadow/Rogue/X synergy - now that both Shadowpriests and Rogues provide 5% haste and multistrike - the buff overlap from what has historically been one of our best pairings is dead (the s9 hit to fear/blind hurt too, but 2 buffs/debuffs is a lot to lose). People often overlook how simple a thing it is to have buff synergy in a 3's team, but it's no coincidence how often the best comps are the result of maximal buff synergy: Shatreeplay has every buff except Mastery, etc.