Single target log results

[FurtyIRL]

I don't claim to know howmany good players are logging.
However if you want to make a claim that (no good players are logging, or the majority of good players are not logging) You better back it up.

If you say you made the inference that some competitive guilds are not logging therefore not many good players are logging then you better prove that majority of good players are in good guilds.

This is an adorable counter point. It's like the religious saying that if you can't prove a higher power exists than it must exist. It's called logic and inference, and also because I am familiar with most of the other regularly parsing players, whether we're friends or I just know them by name. Typically a good player in a 'bad' guild will also have their damage suffer on progression due to kill speeds and the like, making the information from such logs generally irrelevant. I could really say so many things that make perfect logical sense as to why these logs are a poor source of information, but based on your responses I'm willing to bet you're not willing to accept them.

And even IF you are correct, which you aren't, those "diamonds in the rough" would BE the ones in the top 200. And like I said, you don't have to be a rocket scientist to perform a stationary single target rotation to perfection. A 5 year old could do it.

This statement couldn't be more wrong. In fact, if we're going by logs, you should take a look at any single target fight from any past tier. I guarantee the delta you see there, even among the top 20 players, instantly disproves this.

Not to mention, we're a PURE DPS class. Hybrids should never under any circumstances be above us.

Not sure why people are still under the impression we're in Vanilla/TBC, but newsflash, we're not.

[kamuii]

This is an adorable counter point. It's like the religious saying that if you can't prove a higher power exists than it must exist. It's called logic and inference, and also because I am familiar with most of the other regularly parsing players, whether we're friends or I just know them by name. Typically a good player in a 'bad' guild will also have their damage suffer on progression due to kill speeds and the like, making the information from such logs generally irrelevant. I could really say so many things that make perfect logical sense as to why these logs are a poor source of information, but based on your responses I'm willing to bet you're not willing to accept them.

lol wut?

"I know some good guilds and some pro players and they don't log, therefore no good players or good guild logs"

You call that logic?

and no, I didn't claim to know god exist because you can't prove he doesn't.

I know good players log because two good players from blood runs cold logs.

They are retired player that raided with the main group for years and constantly topped the dps meters, they simply didn't want to raid hardcore now. They run with the alt groups now.

Once again, if you make a claim like "no good players log" all I have to do is find 1 good player that log. I claim good player do log because I know a good player that logs, not because you can't prove no good players log. Fail analogy, fail logic.

[Neevs]

What do you not understand about the fact that Blizz made this statement: "Everyone should be fairly equal in single target"
All classes hang arround 28-30k except for 24k locks and DKs and 26k rogues.

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I said SINGLE. F'N. TARGET.

i know...
But this was a reply to another poster saying that our Single target being Low, was compensated in our Cleave..
My post was to show that this wasn't true.. atleast from this data..

Our single target is way to low imo.. Also a thing that really annoyes me is there are so few fights where we do not have to move(pretty much only butcher comes to mind, kargath you only really get to stand still if you ain't his target.. and for butcher this is only true if you do not have to move into melee which i've been set to bah)..

and atm, we're really being punished for movement..
what i do find annoying also is that in destro our execute ain't worth casting, unless it's to get the last Shadow burn in under a proc or the last %. i want to have a good execute, that like alot of other classes increases our DPS the last % or atleast is worth casting..

Also i would love Demo to be higher, after the endless amount of times when we were kinda forced to run it in MoP.
Demo is imo by far the most fun specc we've got ATM.

[Deleted]

This statement couldn't be more wrong. In fact, if we're going by logs, you should take a look at any single target fight from any past tier. I guarantee the delta you see there, even among the top 20 players, instantly disproves this.
Not sure why people are still under the impression we're in Vanilla/TBC, but newsflash, we're not.

So hi, there's this "gear" thing going on on WoW. Not sure you've heard of it.

Also I've never played in Vanilla or BC. The fact to the matter is that for pure DPS classes it's do good DPS or reroll while hybrid classes can always go "well my DPS sucks, but at least I can be useful as a healer/tank"

[Deleted]

Why are people crying so much about their dps. Didnt you pick your class because you wanted to play it, you enjoyed it? I personally couldn't care less on how much other classes are topping me.
You will never be able to compare classes against each other, and if you dont like not being on the top of all meters, you better reroll.

[kamuii]

Why are people crying so much about their dps. Didnt you pick your class because you wanted to play it, you enjoyed it? I personally couldn't care less on how much other classes are topping me.
You will never be able to compare classes against each other, and if you dont like not being on the top of all meters, you better reroll.

Because it's frustrating when you are in the 90th percentile vs other players of your class and your dps is only on par with 50th percentile of other classes?

Telling other people to not care about something they care about. Lol funny.

"hey why don't you like fish?
"idk?"
"stop not liking fish"

wait wait how about this one
"why do you care?"
"idk"
"well i don't care so you shouldn't"

LOLOl

yeah bro, tell me how the brain works, with your phd in neuroscience and psychology.

[Deleted]

its sorta funny, in a tragic way, that some classes get buffed extremely fast and while others need to fight and whine just to get the devs to notice that their class in behind, not to mention the inconsistencies in their methodology(saying 1 thing and then doing another and then saying something stupid like believing that players are still adjusting to the RoF lolwat), obviously we're the latter, and it doesnt take a genius to see that if other classes are getting a buff, then locks will desperately need 1 as well, sadly by the time the devs get their heads out of their asses it would have been too late, sometimes i wish that the devs would actually read and take our feedback a bit more seriously, if they did then the OP'ness of the uvls would never have seen the light of day, and locks would have been in a much better place than they are now. oh well, at their rate, id foresee a lock buff by january early february, eventho 1 is needed now but that is how blizz and locks works, always the last in line for buffs even much needed ones.

[Neevs]

This is an adorable counter point. It's like the religious saying that if you can't prove a higher power exists than it must exist. It's called logic and inference, and also because I am familiar with most of the other regularly parsing players, whether we're friends or I just know them by name. Typically a good player in a 'bad' guild will also have their damage suffer on progression due to kill speeds and the like, making the information from such logs generally irrelevant. I could really say so many things that make perfect logical sense as to why these logs are a poor source of information, but based on your responses I'm willing to bet you're not willing to accept them.

I do not agree with that point.. because you're point is based around that fact that in the top guilds, We'll be seing our class preforming higher because those will be better players. This kinda disregard that All other classes will also be on of higher skill level.
The data we got since u then refere to not being valid, is by your statement lower skilled people. Blizz haven't to my knowledge said they only balance around THE best players preformance.. also if we say that those players are better than what we've got from logs(this would make sence) then All Classes should be of lower skil level. There by this data is imo valid, since then we've got a data said with probally equally lower skill level.. I doubt that lets say mm hunters are only played then by Alot better players than all the data's Locks. Imo we can assume that the skill level will be roughly the same then amongst these people.

[Deleted]

Why are people crying so much about their dps. Didnt you pick your class because you wanted to play it, you enjoyed it? I personally couldn't care less on how much other classes are topping me.
You will never be able to compare classes against each other, and if you dont like not being on the top of all meters, you better reroll.

"So, why are you consistently hanging out around the bottom of damage done?"
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"Because that's just where locks are currently."
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"Oh, Really? Well then I guess we don't really need you in the raid, since that ele shammy / mage / ret pala / feral druid / ww monk would be much better for us. Do you bring anything relevant to the raid besides damage?"
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"Healthstones that are worse than the almost free health tonics, a gateway that isn't useful on any fight, and a summoning stone."
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"Okay, cya."

That's the issue currently. I'm just glad that I know how to play my lock, otherwise I would already have lost my raid spot. And I'm currently fighting tooth and nail to validate my spot in the raid.

Edit: If we were doing mythic raids right now, I probably would have lost the spot, since warlocks literally don't bring anything to the raid. Gateway is minor convenience at best, where as Aspect of the fox is extremely strong in so many fights currently, and a raid shieldwall will basically always be nice to have. We got absolutely NOTHING.

[FurtyIRL]

I know good players log because two good players from blood runs cold logs.

They are retired player that raided with the main group for years and constantly topped the dps meters, they simply didn't want to raid hardcore now. They run with the alt groups now.

Once again, if you make a claim like "no good players log" all I have to do is find 1 good player that log. I claim good player do log because I know a good player that logs, not because you can't prove no good players log. Fail analogy, fail logic.

I already said that there are players who are probably competent in such guilds and explained why that data is probably not representative of the class. That said those players are a minority; it's just a virtue of how any system works that the majority of people aren't the best. That's why they are the majority. It just so happens in WoW that people who understand something better than others typically want to keep it that way for progression and therefore most of those players have their logs on private for the start of a tier.

I'm just going to stop because I can tell by this post alone you're not the intelligent type.

So hi, there's this "gear" thing going on on WoW. Not sure you've heard of it.

Also I've never played in Vanilla or BC. The fact to the matter is that for pure DPS classes it's do good DPS or reroll while hybrid classes can always go "well my DPS sucks, but at least I can be useful as a healer/tank"

What does gear have to do with anything? Legitimately confused.

The reason I referenced those expansions is because that was how the game was balanced then, however, since the launch of Wrath the game is no longer balanced around 'pure' dps always being the strongest. Every class brings some form of raid utility, even if you don't realize it. For instance, hunters have the most ranged mobility so they are typically selected for jobs like triggering the bleed on butcher and so on and so forth. The strength of a pure dps class relative to a so-called hybrid is that *as a general rule* you always have at least one spec, every tier, that is reasonably strong. You also have the flexibility of switching your spec to one that performs an encounter better or more efficiently. This flexibility is important and shouldn't be understated. You either don't understand how/why the developers balance or you just have an archaic mentality on how it should be balanced. That said, when they try to balance things they make mistakes like anyone else, but bear in mind that zomg dps numbers pls parses omg is only a single factor with regards to overall class tuning.

[kamuii]

I already said that there are players who are probably competent in such guilds and explained why that data is probably not representative of the class. That said those players are a minority; it's just a virtue of how any system works that the majority of people aren't the best. That's why they are the majority. It just so happens in WoW that people who understand something better than others typically want to keep it that way for progression and therefore most of those players have their logs on private for the start of a tier.

I'm just going to stop because I can tell by this post alone you're not the intelligent type.

those players are a minority?

How do you know?

More claims with no backing.

Howmany good players are there that are not in a good guild?
Howmany good players are there that are in a good guild?
How did you do the differential to determine "minority"?

Or did you just make random ass claims with no backings while assuming what you say is self-evident?


Hard to take someone seriously when they make claims like "no good players log"

Now you change your claim to majority of people on logs are not good players lol.

No shit captain obvious. majority of the players are not good players. So even if every player logged, majority of the logged players are still not good players. That statement doesn't even remotely reinforce your claim.

All that and you basically said nothing. You must be a politician. Albeit a retarded one.

Not only that. You don't know how statistical analysis or fermis estimation works.

Yeah, keep trying to make your case with idiotic claims mr.intelligent.

[Gaidax]

I already said that there are players who are probably competent in such guilds and explained why that data is probably not representative of the class. That said those players are a minority; it's just a virtue of how any system works that the majority of people aren't the best. That's why they are the majority. It just so happens in WoW that people who understand something better than others typically want to keep it that way for progression and therefore most of those players have their logs on private for the start of a tier.

A simple point many people fail to understand.

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Hard to take someone seriously when they make claims like "no good players log"

The point is that "most of the truly good players keep the logs private". When you have a torrent of logs from trash guilds swarming everywhere, they drown the few truly exceptional logs from guilds who chose to make them public.

[Deleted]

Hope you all do realize you're checking the logs for ALL item levels?
Rather go to bug forums and qq about DS glyph + Archimonde bug so we might get some of our DPS back atleast.

[Deleted]

A simple point many people fail to understand.

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The point is that "most of the truly good players keep the logs private". When you have a torrent of logs from trash guilds swarming everywhere, they drown the few truly exceptional logs from guilds who chose to make them public.

Top 99 percentile. Sort classes by max dps. You CAN see how some of the best players perform, and warlocks are roughly on par with rogues. So were shammies and mages, but for some reason they got buffed. Ret and WW are miles ahead, WW got a little nerf, but far from enough. Ret didn't even get touched, which is just absolutely ludicrous if you look at how well they perform in so many fights.

[Deleted]

The point is that "most of the truly good players keep the logs private". When you have a torrent of logs from trash guilds swarming everywhere, they drown the few truly exceptional logs from guilds who chose to make them public.

Good god, you're too stupid to know you're stupid. I don't care about the average. I care about the top 200 which I've stated in this topic.

[kamuii]

The point is that "most of the truly good players keep the logs private". When you have a torrent of logs from trash guilds swarming everywhere, they drown the few truly exceptional logs from guilds who chose to make them public.

Irrelevant point. trash guild logs will swarm the data regardless of whether top end players kept their logs private or public.

It's incredibly easy to check by percentile to filter out the bads.

truly good players keep their logs private? I know method and paragons keep their logs private. That's a guild not a player.

Again you make claims you can't substantiate.

Howmany guilds do you know that keep their logs private?

Are you saying no guild in the top 90th percentile have open logs? Or are you saying most guilds in the 90th percentile dont have open logs? If so did you make this inference from a differential of good players that logged vs good players that didn't log. If so why don't you show the data to back your claim? If not what data are you using to back your claim or did you just make a random ass assumption like the idiot that claimed no good players logs?

[Eace]

And even IF you are correct, which you aren't, those "diamonds in the rough" would BE the ones in the top 200. And like I said, you don't have to be a rocket scientist to perform a stationary single target rotation to perfection. A 5 year old could do it.

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Not to mention, we're a PURE DPS class. Hybrids should never under any circumstances be above us.

Yeah, 'cause hybrid tax is still a thing. Oh wait...

[Gaidax]

Good god, you're too stupid to know you're stupid. I don't care about the average. I care about the top 200 which I've stated in this topic.

True top 200 have their logs mostly hidden... you have no data to base any claim on, wise guy.

[kamuii]

True top 200 have their logs mostly hidden... you have no data to base any claim on, wise guy.

If they are hidden, how do you know they are hidden? Wise guy.

[Deleted]

True top 200 have their logs mostly hidden... you have no data to base any claim on, wise guy.

Coming from the guy claiming that what we can see is not indicative of what top 200 guilds see. And if you don't show us how you know that, you probably don't know how the "real" top 200 perform either, which means you are just spewing nonsense.