Page 3 of 6 FirstFirst
1
2
3
4
5
... LastLast
  1. #41
    The Unstoppable Force Gaidax's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Israel
    Posts
    20,783
    Quote Originally Posted by kamuii View Post
    If they are hidden, how do you know they are hidden? Wise guy.
    Because it is a well known fact stated by these top guilds not once and not twice over all these years?

  2. #42
    Stood in the Fire Sathnick's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    under your bed
    Posts
    469
    Quote Originally Posted by kamuii View Post
    -SNIP -
    Which Warlock could resists to sig this very true Statement ?

    Anyways, OT - my personal experience from the first couple of raid days says we are in an ok spot with only 2-3 classes (that are obviously OP) ahead of us. I do believe however we will need and get some attention during the overall balancing. I also believe it's ok to voice that concern on the official Forums.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronduwil View Post
    Make the entire world one big raid. Everyone huddles in cities until they can find 19 other adventurers to group with. Then they gradually trash pull their way through the zone

    Luke Skywalker was an angry young male from the desert, who was indoctrinated by a religious fringe member, and joined a terror plot to blow up a major military installation. Luke is a 9/11 pilot...

  3. #43
    The Unstoppable Force Gaidax's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Israel
    Posts
    20,783
    Quote Originally Posted by Degn89 View Post
    Coming from the guy claiming that what we can see is not indicative of what top 200 guilds see. And if you don't show us how you know that, you probably don't know how the "real" top 200 perform either, which means you are just spewing nonsense.
    I am giving averages, which is what represents the reality in which you and everyone in this thread are in.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Gravityx View Post
    What do you not understand about the fact that Blizz balances classes with ALL fights in mind?
    If a class is performing poorly relative to others in an idealized test, the discrepancies are going to get worse when you add other mechanics to the fight. Magical ranged DPS bleed insane amounts of damage every time they have to move in Butcher or Tectus, even the small movement phases for Kargath really hurt Mages, Locks, Priests, and Moonkin.

  5. #45
    The Unstoppable Force Gaidax's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Israel
    Posts
    20,783
    Quote Originally Posted by Nadiru View Post
    If a class is performing poorly relative to others in an idealized test, the discrepancies are going to get worse when you add other mechanics to the fight. Magical ranged DPS bleed insane amounts of damage every time they have to move in Butcher or Tectus, even the small movement phases for Kargath really hurt Mages, Locks, Priests, and Moonkin.
    On the other things, such things as adds, burst phases with extra damage, cleaving and bloodlust not on pull create wonderful opportunities for some specs over the others. It's not only negative.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    Because it is a well known fact stated by these top guilds not once and not twice over all these years?
    Really? Every guild in the 90th percentile and higher announced they will make their logs private? That's news to me. Apparently it's a fact though.

    Every good player announced they will make their logs private? That's news to me.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Furtylol View Post
    I already said that there are players who are probably competent in such guilds and explained why that data is probably not representative of the class. That said those players are a minority; it's just a virtue of how any system works that the majority of people aren't the best. That's why they are the majority. It just so happens in WoW that people who understand something better than others typically want to keep it that way for progression and therefore most of those players have their logs on private for the start of a tier.
    .
    Well, this then should be true as i stated before, for all classes, and also that all classes then of worse people should be around the same for all classes. Also I remember it as blizzard saying that they do not balance around the top players but around the avg player.. Also within the top guilds ALL classes will have players then preforming better.. not just locks..
    Also taken the top players you will have a smaller data set.. You'll need a lot bigger data set than for example the top 20 guilds to say anything about class balance.. this is simply the case for all players..
    If you really should talk about balance you should have a sample of all skill levels lower, middle and higher skill levels. This would show the most "true" picture of how the classes are balanced. simple data handling method.
    but as rvd1ofakind said, his data was from the current top 200 players, within the top 200 players you should still get a picture within a more the current players within probally same skill level. This tho is imo too small a data set to have a true data set.

  8. #48
    The Unstoppable Force Jessicka's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Manchester
    Posts
    20,949
    When I see how much some specs were buffed, and especially how little MM and WW were nerfed, I am pretty surprised Warlocks went untouched. Hunters and Monks were a long, long way ahead of the pack and ~5% nerf is fuck all. Rets and Glads didn't even get touched O.o

  9. #49
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    I am giving averages, which is what represents the reality in which you and everyone in this thread are in.
    As Neeves said though, it goes both ways. If warlocks are fine compared to the numbers the other classes are dishing out, but we just can't see it, what about the even better monks/palas that are on 50 k dps, that we also can't see, according to your logic?

  10. #50
    Deleted
    I honestly hope that every bleeding edge guild does Mythic with every class except warlock. I know I wouldn't judge them. Maybe then Blizz would notice. Then again....

  11. #51
    Dreadlord FurtyIRL's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    The Lonely Mountain
    Posts
    998
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    When I see how much some specs were buffed, and especially how little MM and WW were nerfed, I am pretty surprised Warlocks went untouched. Hunters and Monks were a long, long way ahead of the pack and ~5% nerf is fuck all. Rets and Glads didn't even get touched O.o
    Agreed. Monks are shredding everyone by a mile and the RSK Multiplier actually amounts to about a 1.5% nerf in roughly half mythic gear.

  12. #52
    The Unstoppable Force Gaidax's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Israel
    Posts
    20,783
    Quote Originally Posted by Degn89 View Post
    As Neeves said though, it goes both ways. If warlocks are fine compared to the numbers the other classes are dishing out, but we just can't see it, what about the even better monks/palas that are on 50 k dps, that we also can't see, according to your logic?
    No, Warlocks are fine in the average, which is something you can easily see, that's my point.

    I don't know what is going on with hidden logs since as you say, I indeed can't see them.

    At best your claim can be that warlocks are not truly exceptionally excelling in any fight to the grade of Rets or Monks, which is true, but that does not mean that Warlocks are bad as the OP claims, but merely that the said Monks and Rets are overtuned or simply fit the encounter design like a glove.

    Which brings me to my seconds point... nerf monks!

    I wish to reiterate, much of the perceived issues are coming from how disgustingly good a couple of specs are.
    Last edited by Gaidax; 2014-12-09 at 11:41 AM.

  13. #53
    Deleted
    Warlocks and DKs ARE awful on single target. Rogues are bad too. Every other class is pretty much equal on single target.
    SINGLE
    TARGET

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    No, Warlocks are fine in the average, which is something you can easily see, that's my point.

    I don't know what is going on with hidden logs since as you say, I indeed can't see them.

    At best your claim can be that warlocks are not truly exceptionally excelling in any fight to the grade of Rets or Monks, which is true, but that does not mean that Warlocks are bad as the OP claims, but merely that the said Monks and Rets are overtuned or simply fit the encounter design like a glove.

    Which brings me to my seconds point... nerf monks!

    I wish to reiterate, much of the perceived issues are coming from how disgustingly good a couple of specs are.
    What average are you looking at? Being 10th/11 classes on the average for 90th percentile is not fine.

  15. #55
    The Unstoppable Force Gaidax's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Israel
    Posts
    20,783
    Quote Originally Posted by rvd1ofakind View Post
    Warlocks and DKs ARE awful on single target. Rogues are bad too. Every other class is pretty much equal on single target.
    SINGLE
    TARGET
    If this is true, then how do you explain this?

    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...t=90&boss=1706

  16. #56
    We just have to accept that Blizz want melee to be top dog at the moment, hunters included as they class them as ranged melee. They also seem to be scared of letting locks anywhere near the top after we dominated for so long. Yes it does indeed suck, but we have to ride it out and wait for our day again, which I'm sure will come with more gear later in the expansion.

  17. #57
    people keep saying that warlocks are about Averagge.. i don't get your conclusion.. Because we're not in the middle..
    look at what I or rvd1ofakind posted.. pretty much any other class got another option which is higher.. even more with the recent buffs..
    It's all the Warlocks speccs which are low.. we do not have any kinda options to take another specc which does higher..
    Let's take hunters.. while BM and surv are low, MM is really strong.. So you can disregard their position, since pretty much every hunter now play MM.
    The same goes for for example Warriors. This then put warlocks below the middle pack..

    Also what annoyes me that in MoP melee were screaming for balance, but now that they are ahead they then say "thats fine after how melee out preformed melee in mop" That ain't balance.. thats just chaning whoes more powerfull atm.. i want balance not that just another class preforming really high..

  18. #58
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    If this is true, then how do you explain this?

    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...t=90&boss=1706
    I've answered this question before. Find the answer.

  19. #59
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    No, Warlocks are fine in the average, which is something you can easily see, that's my point.

    I don't know what is going on with hidden logs since as you say, I indeed can't see them.

    At best your claim can be that warlocks are not truly exceptionally excelling in any fight to the grade of Rets or Monks, which is true, but that does not mean that Warlocks are bad as the OP claims, but merely that the said Monks and Rets are overtuned or simply fit the encounter design like a glove.

    Which brings me to my seconds point... nerf monks!

    I wish to reiterate, much of the perceived issues are coming from how disgustingly good a couple of specs are.
    Warlocks have to shuffle between all 3 specs to perform below averag on all fights. This sets quite a gearing requirement for us. Other classes outperform us by miles with single specs, meaning they need one set of gear, and to learn one spec to perform better than us. DKs and rogues are basically the only classes that do somewhat similar single target DPS, everyone else outperforms us. I don't care about average, I care about the top, since that is where you can aim to get, and if our top dps is much lower than other classes' top, we get benched, with good reason.

    I guess my point is that if ele shammies and frost mages get buffed, then so should we, because we were very close to them before.

  20. #60
    Deleted
    It's like they see other classes with 1 spec being king and the others being rettible and they think warlocks are ok because all their specs are equaly bellow average

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •