Holy and Disc is borring

[Deleted]

Hello everyone
I have played my priest for over 9 years now and tbh I feel that, at this start of the exp I find it very boring to heal, like major borring, and I wonder if I'm the only one? I tried to mix up my healing with more PoH PoM FH, but that only ends up with 0% mana 45 sec later

So atm the only way I feel like I can keep my mana up in both specs is just to spam the following spells:

Holy:
Renew - CoH - lighwell. 4 hours later still the same.

Disc:
PW:S - Penance - Holy fire - Archangel. 4 hours later still the same.

The fun fact is that this is also the best way to heal as a priest (if you want to get high on meters) and it feels mega boring. Anyone feel the same way, or is this just the way of the priest now? ;(

[Tizdale]

Do you severly outgear all the content? Or what content are you talking about?

Just doing that cycle as a disc would definately cause my groups to die..

[Deleted]

just to make sure, this is NOT a " OMG BUFF PRIEST THEY SUCK BALBALBAL" post its more a question about if im players feel like me about priest atm

did forget to mention that this is based for 20 /30 Hc highmaul raids, we go with 2 holy palas 1 resto druid and a munk and a holy / disc priest, and that is kinda the only way for me to keep my mana going, i have mainly focused on holy, I did some disc but when i check any ranking priests they mainly spam PW:S and penance

if you have any sugenstions how to make in more interesting plz tell me

[Dracodraco]

Every single healer is severely undergeared for current content. This means that you have to conserve mana. You don't play whack-a-mole with healthbars anymore, and thank god for that. Instead, you get to actually make decisions about who to heal and with what, in order to keep your mana going untill the intensive phases, or untill someone makes a mistake where you have to respond with severe force. That does, however, include a lot of "put down ground heals, run mana-positive cycle to keep topping people up slowly over a long time".

[Jeniwyn]

Right now mana is so limited that anything except the highest HPM spells causes you to OOM in most raid situations. This is unfortunately the only realistic way for it to be at the start of an expansion if mana regen is to be part of gear progression.

Yes, it is a bit boring. But it will almost certainly get much better once you get your hands on Heroic/Mythic gear with spirit on it. If you are only raiding normal, it will probably take another raid tier for the situation to significantly improve.

[Deleted]

im not saying i want the whack a mole play style at all, its more like, if you try as a disc in a 20 + raid with only spam PW:S you will get better hps and you will not have mana problems at all, what i try to point out is that it feels like a 2 spell job and i ask if im the only one there feels like this is borring? again it might be better when we get more gere in general but yesterday night i was playing holy for 4 hours on imperator margok HC 20 man, spaming renew and COH all the times and had both a better hps, less overhealing and better mana, and tbh you climb meters and not being at the bottom. In genral isn't that just a bit broken and borring that you basic only use Fh when you get a free surge of light?

im kinda rusty on how disc work and im sry for might get it wrong, i'm just base my facts from what i see on general Ranking on fights and see what players are doing.
atm i just respec to disc and change for more crit and mastery. so i will get more personal facts by playing it more in raids

Jeniwyn, yeah that was what i was thinking aswell, just wait and see i guss

[ceddya]

Every single healer is severely undergeared for current content. This means that you have to conserve mana. You don't play whack-a-mole with healthbars anymore, and thank god for that. Instead, you get to actually make decisions about who to heal and with what, in order to keep your mana going untill the intensive phases, or untill someone makes a mistake where you have to respond with severe force. That does, however, include a lot of "put down ground heals, run mana-positive cycle to keep topping people up slowly over a long time".

That really doesn't seem like how Disc or Holy plays right now. If you don't have the mana to sustain continuous casting of either PW:S or Renew, which are our two most efficient spells, then the best way to conserve mana is to not cast at all. When you do have to heal though, you're literally just spamming PW:S/Penance or Renew/CoH.

The good news is that the tier bonuses will change up our playstyles somewhat (moreso for Holy than Disc), but that requires getting access to your 4 piece bonuses, which probably is going to take a while.

[Deleted]

The good news is that the tier bonuses will change up our playstyles somewhat (moreso for Holy than Disc), but that requires getting access to your 4 piece bonuses, which probably is going to take a while.

yeah i did see that and that and that is some what a light at the end of the tunnel, but right now, it just looks like we have to live with the facts that we have to heal like this. (personaly borring as shit )

i was hoping for some changes after the dev interview but they didn't really mention anything worth, for priest atleast.

[Dracodraco]

That really doesn't seem like how Disc or Holy plays right now. If you don't have the mana to sustain continuous casting of either PW:S or Renew, which are our two most efficient spells, then the best way to conserve mana is to not cast at all. When you do have to heal though, you're literally just spamming PW:S/Penance or Renew/CoH.

The good news is that the tier bonuses will change up our playstyles somewhat (moreso for Holy than Disc), but that requires getting access to your 4 piece bonuses, which probably is going to take a while.

Well, no - the best way to go for "Idle downtime" for disc is to CoW the tanks, as that requires almost no mana and lets the other healers focus their effort in regenning mana etc more. Likewise, downtime is well spent building up 5x evangelism stacks for AA, even if AA is already up. Always have 5x stacks ready for the next time it comes off CD; a 25% healing buff is simply too huge to pass up on.

[Disciple81]

I am having a blast as Discipline atm, I use smite as a filler in light damage and actively CC/interrupt with fear and silence and even keep my SwP on bosses. If you want the healer to be active make it so, the boring level is dependent on you. I have no mana issues in 5 mans doing this and do not stack spirit at all.

[ceddya]

Well, no - the best way to go for "Idle downtime" for disc is to CoW the tanks, as that requires almost no mana and lets the other healers focus their effort in regenning mana etc more. Likewise, downtime is well spent building up 5x evangelism stacks for AA, even if AA is already up. Always have 5x stacks ready for the next time it comes off CD; a 25% healing buff is simply too huge to pass up on.

Actually no, CoW is not actually that efficient. Unless a fight has specific tank mechanics that CoW can negate (Brackenspore, Kargath) or with relatively low raid healing requirements (Tectus, Ogron), using CoW on the tanks isn't the most efficient. You are really only using CoW when there's little to no raid damage, and in such a setting, every other healer has an efficient way of healing the tank too. Why take up a bigger portion of that pie when you can conserve that mana for a bigger pre-shield on your raid?

[Deleted]

totaly agree ceddya i rarely use CoW unless i know there is some shit inc on the tank (Brackenspore)

[Dracodraco]

Actually no, CoW is not actually that efficient. Unless a fight has specific tank mechanics that CoW can negate (Brackenspore, Kargath) or with relatively low raid healing requirements (Tectus, Kargath, Ogron), using CoW on the tanks isn't the most efficient. You are really only using CoW when there's little to no raid damage, and in such a setting, every other healer has an efficient way of healing the tank too. Why take up a bigger portion of that pie when you can conserve that mana for a bigger pre-shield on your raid? Let's not forget

That's the beauty of absorbs. No reason you can't put a fat 300K shield on the tanks during downtime, while HoT's tick them up from 200K to 400K again. You still maintain the stability of the tanks, and the other healers refills their health bars efficiently. They do not have to hit the tanks with anything "strong" to keep them alive, but merely throw passive heals their way. This opens them up to use their efficient healing (of which disc has none for raid healing) on the raid - rather have the disc hit the tanks with CoW's that will be usefull no matter what, than 40K heals with 50K shields that might not on a random raid member, vs a shaman hitting them with a 70K healing wave to refill their bar entirely.

[ceddya]

That's the beauty of absorbs. No reason you can't put a fat 300K shield on the tanks during downtime, while HoT's tick them up from 200K to 400K again. You still maintain the stability of the tanks, and the other healers refills their health bars efficiently. They do not have to hit the tanks with anything "strong" to keep them alive, but merely throw passive heals their way. This opens them up to use their efficient healing (of which disc has none for raid healing) on the raid - rather have the disc hit the tanks with CoW's that will be usefull no matter what, than 40K heals with 50K shields that might not on a random raid member, vs a shaman hitting them with a 70K healing wave to refill their bar entirely.

We're talking about a mana starved environment, not one where you can sustain continuous casting of PW:S and CoW. If you have the gear for that, then do it by all means. Of course, this depends on the encounter, and there are a few fights with mana requiements that are low enough to support the CoW playstyle.

Anyway, I have yet to run into issues with tank deaths on raid damage heavy fights like Mar'gok without CoW. If this were the case, no guild would ever let their Priest spec Holy. Penance and PW:S on the tanks has proven sufficient from my end during downtime. I think it's better to not cast (notably when AA is down) and save the mana for greater burst when needed towards the latter half of the encounter via AA + PW:S.

I also disagree with the notion that PW:S isn't useful. It is probably one of the strongest raid heals right now, especially if you factor in the spot healing nature of it. It's absolutely brilliant at triage and dealing with specific debuffs like Branded.

[Dracodraco]

We're talking about a mana starved environment, not one where you can sustain continuous casting of PW:S and CoW. If you have the gear for that, then do it by all means. Of course, this depends on the encounter, and there are a few fights with mana requiements that are low enough to support the CoW playstyle.

CoW is cheap. Really cheap. 5K mana vs 3.2K for the normal heal, which is 65% mana more, and it heals for 65% more than the normal heal. Essentially, it costs exactly the same Mana:Healing ratio as your normal heal does, it just does it faster because it hits harder. If you can't sustain CoW, I really don't know what to tell you, except get some mana regen trinkets/spirit.

Anyway, I have yet to run into issues with tank deaths on raid damage heavy fights like Mar'gok without CoW. If this were the case, no guild would ever let their Priest spec Holy. Penance and PW:S on the tanks has proven sufficient from my end during downtime. I think it's better to not cast (notably when AA is down) and save the mana for greater burst when needed towards the latter half of the encounter via AA + PW:S.

But it's even better to let the five other healers not cast because the tanks healthbars aren't moving (and neither is your mana bar), instead of them constantly throwing up "efficient" heals on the tanks that ends up overhealing them heavily, because they want to refill the healthbars. I suspect that most guilds won't let their priest spec holy in mythic; but obviously, normal and heroic is so lightly tuned on damage overall that you can go in with 4x of the same healer spec and still do well. Remember, every healers has a special niche at this point, but every healer is also able to ACT as the other roles. Just not as well.

I also disagree with the notion that PW:S isn't useful. It is probably one of the strongest raid heals right now, especially if you factor in the spot healing nature of it. It's absolutely brilliant at triage and dealing with specific debuffs like Branded.

Never said it wasn't usefull. I said it wasn't useable to slow-heal the raid, only to prevent damage. It's great for fights where there's constant damage (Koragh, butcher), but much less so on a fight like Margok (outside of the intermissions), where the damage is decidedly non-lethal and should under no circumstances have heavy mana usage spent on bringing people back up. It just won't do people any good to shield them after damage has gone out, and the next burst of damage is going out in over 20 seconds - the shield will fall off, having done nothing.
I also did mention that it was good for branded, exactly because of triage - you have four priority targets (tanks, branded assigned people), you can keep shields on them and maintain mana while smiting/novaing etc... But start blanketing the raid with shields for an upcomming force nova that should take no more than a third of the raid's healthpool away, and you're just throwing mana away for the sake of it.

[ceddya]

CoW is cheap. Really cheap. 5K mana vs 3.2K for the normal heal, which is 65% mana more, and it heals for 65% more than the normal heal. Essentially, it costs exactly the same Mana:Healing ratio as your normal heal does, it just does it faster because it hits harder. If you can't sustain CoW, I really don't know what to tell you, except get some mana regen trinkets/spirit.

Show me a parse with a Disc Priest going full out on PW:S for raid damage while still being to sustain continuous casting of CoW during downtime without the use of the Everburning Candle. It's not very feasible given current gear levels, but maybe I just have awful gear.

Numbers for CoW are good for a ST heal, but you're only using it during downtime. If there are no particular tank mechanics to manage, why exactly is this CoW needed when Penance + constant PW:S on the tanks from my end has been more than sufficient?

But it's even better to let the five other healers not cast because the tanks healthbars aren't moving (and neither is your mana bar), instead of them constantly throwing up "efficient" heals on the tanks that ends up overhealing them heavily, because they want to refill the healthbars. I suspect that most guilds won't let their priest spec holy in mythic; but obviously, normal and heroic is so lightly tuned on damage overall that you can go in with 4x of the same healer spec and still do well. Remember, every healers has a special niche at this point, but every healer is also able to ACT as the other roles. Just not as well.

Or I could conserve mana for when it's actually needed. The CoW isn't going to save the tank, but having the extra mana from not casting CoW can and will save raid members via PW:S towards the end of fights.

Never said it wasn't usefull. I said it wasn't useable to slow-heal the raid, only to prevent damage. It's great for fights where there's constant damage (Koragh, butcher), but much less so on a fight like Margok (outside of the intermissions), where the damage is decidedly non-lethal and should under no circumstances have heavy mana usage spent on bringing people back up. It just won't do people any good to shield them after damage has gone out, and the next burst of damage is going out in over 20 seconds - the shield will fall off, having done nothing.

I also did mention that it was good for branded, exactly because of triage - you have four priority targets (tanks, branded assigned people), you can keep shields on them and maintain mana while smiting/novaing etc... But start blanketing the raid with shields for an upcomming force nova that should take no more than a third of the raid's healthpool away, and you're just throwing mana away for the sake of it.

I don't know, damage past the first intermission certainly did ramp up in terms of frequency for PW:S to shine. I don't know about you, but I have had no issues with PW:S not getting consumed then.

I took a look at your logs for Mar'gok, and I only saw 4 casts of CoW past the first intermission. Is CoW really more valuable than the free PoM heals you get from WoM past that phase?

[Dracodraco]

Show me a parse with a Disc Priest going full out on PW:S for raid damage while still being to sustain continuous casting of CoW during downtime without the use of the Everburning Candle. It's not very feasible given current gear levels, but maybe I just have awful gear.

Numbers for CoW are good for a ST heal, but you're only using it during downtime. If there are no particular tank mechanics to manage, why exactly is this CoW needed when Penance + constant PW:S on the tanks from my end has been more than sufficient?

...Why should I show you that? I never advocated doing that. All of my wats are given right now. If you spam all your mana away, you can't cast *anything*, PW:S or CoW. If you want to see raid healing discs, look at the max HPS ones. If you want to see tank healing discs, don't look at the top HPS ones. I'm just not sure what you're asking right now. You can always sustain CoW casting.

And if penance+PW:S is more than sufficient for you, then good for you I guess. Doesn't make it better to neglect casting at all when you have such a cheap, strong tank heal, while other healers are better suited to throw a HoT on an injured raid member instead of the tank. Just saying.

Or I could conserve mana for when it's actually needed. The CoW isn't going to save the tank, but having the extra mana from not casting CoW can and will save raid members via PW:S towards the end of fights.

But you are. CoW *is* conserving mana. Keeping the tank always shielded is going to save more healer mana than you can ever imagine, because it means the other healers won't feel obligated to throw heals at the tank if he hasn't taken damage. You're looking at this from a "ME ME ME ME ME" perspective, when that's really no longer feasible. If you're burning all your mana casting CoW, you need to drop haste, get more spirit, and actually build up your archangels and shit.

I don't know, damage past the first intermission certainly did ramp up in terms of frequency for PW:S to shine. I don't know about you, but I have had no issues with PW:S not getting consumed then.

I took a look at your logs for Mar'gok, and I only saw 4 casts of CoW past the first intermission. Is CoW really more valuable than the free PoM heals you get from WoM past that phase?

You'll also notice that I'm even doing holy novas, and lots of atonement (100 smite casts over the fight). When the tanks aren't in danger because they haven't broken my PW:S yet, I'm reverting to an even more mana positive cycle.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...ling&target=23

and
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...ling&target=15

You can see that the only other person doing any kind of direct healing to them, is gossling. The rest is beacons from the paladins (and an occasional shock/HL if there's absolutely nothing else), hots from the druids, and hots from the MW. Gossling is a resto shaman, so the only things he can do is riptide a raid member every 5 seconds, place a healing stream every 30, and healing rain every 10 - apart from that, his "mana positive" cycle is basicly, "healing wave someone to get their HP up". Makes sense that he'd also hit the tanks. But the raid healers (druid/MW) don't even bother.



As for WoM, I'd have gotten a total of...
171 shields
37 penances
14 CoW
8 halo
6 PoH
17 novas
9 heal
3 flash heal

= 26.5 WoM procs over 12 minutes. Assuming each heals for about 40K, sure, that's an added 1060K healing. Still less than CoW did, though, and CoW is a safety net. It also assumes all WoM procs gets fully utilised (they won't). As said before, this is heroic - there's not a *ton* of tank damage going on yet. I could opt to go WoM on this fight and benefit as much, but I'd lose my cheap, efficient tank heal, having to cast heal on them instead, which is very prone to overhealing. Also, can't preshield the tank for the reaver with a 200K shield with WoM :<.


And yes, you can get PW:S to break if you cast it before the add spawns, and before the nova goes out. The issue is, should you? If the 2x druids, resto shaman, MW and holy paladin in my raid can keep everyone topped off by using their efficient AOE heals after the add is dead, or the nova has gone out, and topping off everyone before the next one goes out... Why exactly PW:S them? You'll absorb damage that is meaningless, "sniping" healing just for the sake of it. As you say yourself - why not conserve that mana for when you need it, when you know it'll be taken care of by people who are better suited? Use triage - focus your absorbs on the people with branded and the tanks during those parts, so the people who have strong AOE healing can AOE heal.

[Deleted]

damn afk for 1 hour :O

[Deleted]

Right now mana is so limited that anything except the highest HPM spells causes you to OOM in most raid situations. This is unfortunately the only realistic way for it to be at the start of an expansion if mana regen is to be part of gear progression.

I don't really see why they still push the game this way. At the start of the expansion, your heals are weak and you run out mana quickly. At the end, your heals are strong and you never worry about mana.

I personally think they'd be able to deal with healers a lot easier if spirit was removed entirely from the game and healers had fixed mana regen, except for maybe one or two regen trinkets per tier. That way, mana would be something healers would always have to think about, but you won't be forced into playing so conservatively at lower gear levels. The only concern with that system would be how haste affects your mana pool, but that could be adjusted so that haste reduces the mana cost of spells to compensate or just increases regen, similar to how haste works for rogues, ferals and hunters.

[Deleted]

I don't really see why they still push the game this way. At the start of the expansion, your heals are weak and you run out mana quickly. At the end, your heals are strong and you never worry about mana.

WoD healing feels like it might be more like TBC. Once we have access to more spirit, we will cast our quicker or more powerful heals more regularly on tanks whose health pools have scaled higher due to more stamina on gear. Therefore, more spirit that comes with gear should allow a quicker healing style in later tiers via spell selection, fulfilling the role of Haste in 2.3 and 2.4. Perhaps. Depends on what Blizzard steers the game towards.

but you won't be forced into playing so conservatively at lower gear levels

There is nothing wrong with that though. Conservative healing and proper spell selection should be encouraged throughout all tiers. Discipline can't really boast such though since PW:S has such a high HPS and HPM.

The only concern with that system would be how haste affects your mana pool, but that could be adjusted so that haste reduces the mana cost of spells to compensate or just increases regen, similar to how haste works for rogues, ferals and hunters.

That would basically make haste into a mega stat combining spirit and haste as they are now. Not a solution if you want to make people care about mana throughout an expansion. The proposed active mana regeneration route was a step towards this and could have worked in an interesting manner if AMR was balanced such that someone with spirit in all slots wouldn't need to touch AMR spells. Unfortunately, a lot of people disliked the idea of healers doing something other than healing.