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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by CombatJack View Post
    For Fire and Arcane multistrike, mastery, and crit have similar value. Personally I will be playing whatever spec I enjoy the most.
    Not 100% true. Mastery for Arcane is valued higher than everything including int.

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by robomatticus View Post
    Not 100% true. Mastery for Arcane is valued higher than everything including int.
    huh ? What kind of sim have you been running ? I get mastery as 0.66 int.

  3. #83
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by robomatticus View Post
    Not 100% true. Mastery for Arcane is valued higher than everything including int.
    Not true.

    Sure, mastery is higher than other secondaries, but it doesn't even remotely come close to intellect.

    Example for my arcane gear:


  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Pur1tas View Post
    As far as I see it MI is only viable if you need burst at a specific point in time with arcane. I use RoP if I can stand still most of the fight as I doubt I can get the 80% (I think it is 80%) uptime on the rune if I have to move a lot. I go for default IW and only switch for staionary fights like kargath and butcher.


    Towards Tectus I did not feel like arcane missed out on a lot of dps if you take IW and line up the supernovas with 5 stacks of IW and/or full mana. I might have played the frost tries not well though to be honest. Overall I have to say Arcane does a lot better on movement fights in comparisson to MoP arcane in movement fights. In addition I think if played smart you can pull of RoP on most fights making arcane overall a stronger spec but that does depend a lot on your gear. As a previous poster said HM gear has little mastery on it and therefore frost profits more from it. As the sims show frost is close to arcane and seems to scale well (arcane does not scale bad though). I think for a lot of fights it is going to be a decission made on what you favour even though I would think for Butcher Arcane is a must as it just gets way better numbers going regardless of the gear.
    You mean multistrike, right? Because Frost profits from multi.

  5. #85
    No because none of the fights allow you to just stand there.

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by flipz View Post
    No because none of the fights allow you to just stand there.
    This is an flawed argument against Arcane viability. Sure it's mobility is no as strong as Frost or Fire but with proper use of Ice Floes and knowledge of fight mechanics, Arcane can keep pace with Frost and Fire
    There were no screams, there was no time
    The mountain called Monkey had spoken
    It was only fire and then, nothing

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Called Monkey View Post
    This is an flawed argument against Arcane viability. Sure it's mobility is no as strong as Frost or Fire but with proper use of Ice Floes and knowledge of fight mechanics, Arcane can keep pace with Frost and Fire
    Not to mention blink, glyphed blink, and supernova. Im surprised that I see so few arcane mages out there. It's pretty much all frost. I feel like arcane has a stigma to it that doesn't belong. I also speak with a lot of frost mages and they tell me they can't grasp arcane.

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Xires View Post
    You mean multistrike, right? Because Frost profits from multi.
    Read your bolded quote again.

  9. #89
    not sure if its already been posted in this thread, but does anyone have the simc values for arcane vs frost with tier bonuses turned on? or know how to turn them on in simc?

  10. #90
    Tier bonuses for the default profiles are on by default, since they have 4 pieces of tier equipped.

    If you just add the tier pieces to any profile, it'll automatically use them.

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by shaft4783 View Post
    Not to mention blink, glyphed blink, and supernova. Im surprised that I see so few arcane mages out there. It's pretty much all frost. I feel like arcane has a stigma to it that doesn't belong. I also speak with a lot of frost mages and they tell me they can't grasp arcane.
    The stigma is Rune of Power.

  12. #92
    I'm surprised to see the negativeness about Arcane here tbh.

    The first thing that comes to my attention is how people say Arcane is bad on movement fights... Guys, Arcane has never ever been this mobile, so what kind of joke is this? Rune of Power is the best choice yes, it gives us a 15% increase in damage. Incanter's flow is an average of 12% (assuming the player completely closes his eyes and ignore his stacks). 3% difference for a huge mobility benefit is nothing. Then with 3 stacks of Ice flows, you can easily use that to your advantage as well. Arcane nova + Barrage + POM, mixed with crystal are all instants...


    I play it at 661 ilevel and 62% Mastery buffed, so it's nothing big. I've been pounding Fire and Frost mages in my group with similar gear. In order to see if this holds in other groups, I simply look at other parses on warcraft logs. start with basic statistics at 50% percentile with the lowest ilevel. And one by one, increase the settings in regards to percentiles and ilevels. There is one obvious conclusion when looking at those 10 different setups. Arcane is the spec that rises the fasts as gear increases. Even in Highmaul it is significantly ahead... So where do you guys get your info here? Real parses are showing Arcane quite far ahead, which matches perfectly my own experience.

    Am I the only one to think this way?

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by Solidpat View Post
    I'm surprised to see the negativeness about Arcane here tbh.

    The first thing that comes to my attention is how people say Arcane is bad on movement fights... Guys, Arcane has never ever been this mobile, so what kind of joke is this? Rune of Power is the best choice yes, it gives us a 15% increase in damage. Incanter's flow is an average of 12% (assuming the player completely closes his eyes and ignore his stacks). 3% difference for a huge mobility benefit is nothing. Then with 3 stacks of Ice flows, you can easily use that to your advantage as well. Arcane nova + Barrage + POM, mixed with crystal are all instants...


    I play it at 661 ilevel and 62% Mastery buffed, so it's nothing big. I've been pounding Fire and Frost mages in my group with similar gear. In order to see if this holds in other groups, I simply look at other parses on warcraft logs. start with basic statistics at 50% percentile with the lowest ilevel. And one by one, increase the settings in regards to percentiles and ilevels. There is one obvious conclusion when looking at those 10 different setups. Arcane is the spec that rises the fasts as gear increases. Even in Highmaul it is significantly ahead... So where do you guys get your info here? Real parses are showing Arcane quite far ahead, which matches perfectly my own experience.

    Am I the only one to think this way?
    Arcane isn't all that amazing for AoE/Cleave. It isn't awful though and its clearly very strong single target. You're also right that movement is the least of an arcane mage's problems these days. There really isn't much that blink/floes isn't going to cover and if its really bad you can swap to IF. I'd say planning/dealing with movement is the easiest it has ever been.

  14. #94
    Saying that movement is better than it was is missing the point. You are correct but both frost and fire handle movement a lot better.

    The thing I like most about mage is that each spec is different and shines on different encounter.

  15. #95
    Frost did have a great start this expac though. And the spec had never been this competitive in raids in the past. But what will happen with Frost in the future? I can see fire picking it up next tier, and as for arcane, the mastery is just so strong, it can only go one way with more gear. I'm still concerned as to where frost will stand in a few weeks. We are already starting to see signs of weakness relative to other specs, as opposed to 1 month ago.

  16. #96
    Deleted
    Frost and Fire also have access to blink and icefloes, so those really don't matter that much when comparing the specs. What Arcane doesn't have access to, at least not as much as Frost and Fire, is strong instants that help when ice floes is on cd. It is also undeniably worse on more than one target.

    Frost will be just fine going forward, if anything it's the other two specs that scale too well with gear.

  17. #97
    Deleted
    So im going Arcane Fire right now, But my question is this: How much Critt should i have before i even consider going fire in the cleave fights? Right now i got around 38% critt in fire gear and specc and around 28% mastery. But thats without re enchanting my gear from arcane to fire, So how much should i have before i consider it?

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by Solidpat View Post
    Frost did have a great start this expac though. And the spec had never been this competitive in raids in the past. But what will happen with Frost in the future? I can see fire picking it up next tier, and as for arcane, the mastery is just so strong, it can only go one way with more gear. I'm still concerned as to where frost will stand in a few weeks. We are already starting to see signs of weakness relative to other specs, as opposed to 1 month ago.
    What will happen is what happened with fire/arcane. Frost will be buffed if fire and arcane pull too far ahead.

    What I'd really like is to see splitting ice actually not be so terrible.

  19. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by nezehran View Post
    So im going Arcane Fire right now, But my question is this: How much Critt should i have before i even consider going fire in the cleave fights? Right now i got around 38% critt in fire gear and specc and around 28% mastery. But thats without re enchanting my gear from arcane to fire, So how much should i have before i consider it?
    I wouldn't worry about a specific number, and I wouldn't re-enchant your gear. Realistically if you're Arcane/Fire you'd use Fire on Tectus and maybe Twin Ogrons and that's it. Mastery is good for Fire when it comes to multiple targets so playing Fire on cleave fights while set up for Arcane works out fine.

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