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  1. #401
    Quote Originally Posted by Lorianus View Post
    Yeah but his logs are more of a our healers dont understand how different tanks work so we blame the paladin, can he improve yes he can, but he linked hc logs from a 935 warrior co tank, our warrior doesnt even need healing on half the bosses because of the dumb rage spend->healing legendary and bosses need somewhere between 2-5 seconds to chunk throug his IP shields, so ofcourse the paladin will need more healing.

    Thats not even considering that warriors have no gaps in their active mitigation uptime, unlike paladins.

    All in all his paladin will always take more damage/will need more healing no matter what he does.
    Yeah, that's a good point. Should have mentioned that along with my observations.

  2. #402
    Thank you both for your answers.

    I'll pass along your remarks @Ballercaust but as I understand he's not doing anything flat out wrong but he simply needs some tweaking.

    @Lorianus You're right, for warriors outgearing the encounter can lead to some OP numbers because of rage->heal and stronger IPs. Part of my concerns was also to find out if it's more a matter of different classes working (obviously) in a different way or actual mistakes. I didn't expect him to be doing big mistakes since he reads up on his class, but the numbers still baffled me.

    You're saying then that it's pretty normal for him to take much more damage than a warrior at a similar ilevel because of how the 2 classes work/mitigate and their respective ability to outgear content (warriors being able to negate attacks completely as soon as their IP shields surpass the damage taken)?

  3. #403
    Quote Originally Posted by Piocc View Post
    Thank you both for your answers.

    I'll pass along your remarks @Ballercaust but as I understand he's not doing anything flat out wrong but he simply needs some tweaking.

    @Lorianus You're right, for warriors outgearing the encounter can lead to some OP numbers because of rage->heal and stronger IPs. Part of my concerns was also to find out if it's more a matter of different classes working (obviously) in a different way or actual mistakes. I didn't expect him to be doing big mistakes since he reads up on his class, but the numbers still baffled me.

    You're saying then that it's pretty normal for him to take much more damage than a warrior at a similar ilevel because of how the 2 classes work/mitigate and their respective ability to outgear content (warriors being able to negate attacks completely as soon as their IP shields surpass the damage taken)?
    In general yeah it's normal but it shouldnt be a problem for your healers keeping him up in hc content, also you dont need to babysit a paladin tank either, i cant count the times where our healers are just flat out bored and spam healing me so i never get to use hand of the protector on myself for selfhealing.

    As long as he is healable i dont see a problem, healers also have to adapt to different tank speccs, just because druids dont need heal ever doesnt mean that you can ignore a paladin/vengeance dh in more challenging content.

    If your mate uses light/hand of the protector more often you healers should notice it, he can also try it with the legendary helm, the self heal has 2 charges with it equipped, if he has it.

    Gearwise, get him his 4 piece bonus, gives him 5% reduced damage basically for free.

    Also you yourself as a warrior you are all about physical damage, Tomb of Sargeras is in the more challenging encounters all about high phys dmg making your critical block chance that much more better, paladins do way better on fights that have more magic damage going on.
    Last edited by Lorianus; 2017-10-03 at 05:54 PM.

  4. #404
    So I'm jumping into Heroic TOS, and I just got Aggramars stride. I already have Prydaz, and Archimonde's Hatred Reborn. Which should I be using ideally?
    Paladin since '05 - Tanking & Spanking all day, everyday.


  5. #405
    Quote Originally Posted by WithGhosts View Post
    So I'm jumping into Heroic TOS, and I just got Aggramars stride. I already have Prydaz, and Archimonde's Hatred Reborn. Which should I be using ideally?
    Ideally you should reroll to a viable tank class. But if you are sticking with it, out of the selection, use prydaz and the trinket.

  6. #406
    Quote Originally Posted by Masternewt View Post
    Ideally you should reroll to a viable tank class. But if you are sticking with it, out of the selection, use prydaz and the trinket.
    Unfortunately I already have, with a blood DK being my new main since right before TOS. However I still like to keep myself relatively updated with my favorite class haha. Thanks for the advice.
    Paladin since '05 - Tanking & Spanking all day, everyday.


  7. #407
    Tanking on my dk is a walk in the park, you can almost bloodboil and ignore the adds. Just tanked my first run as prot though, 943 gear. like 450k dps. 1 concordance trait. I keep losing agro left and right, sometimes even on bosses. It's redicilous. Like Avengershield, consec, hammer of rightiousness, I thought paladins were kings for AoE tanking. It almost feels as if I miss the old 60% treat buff.
    Even with judgement, crusader and unloading all 3 shield of the righteousness in opener, I still lose agro sometimes.

    Am I missing something or?
    Edit: Survival was fine

  8. #408
    Quote Originally Posted by Mazeari View Post
    Tanking on my dk is a walk in the park, you can almost bloodboil and ignore the adds. Just tanked my first run as prot though, 943 gear. like 450k dps. 1 concordance trait. I keep losing agro left and right, sometimes even on bosses. It's redicilous. Like Avengershield, consec, hammer of rightiousness, I thought paladins were kings for AoE tanking. It almost feels as if I miss the old 60% treat buff.
    Even with judgement, crusader and unloading all 3 shield of the righteousness in opener, I still lose agro sometimes.

    Am I missing something or?
    Edit: Survival was fine
    what's the ilvl of the OT? or are you losing to DPS? what's their ilvl?
    Member:BFA Alpha, Member since 2/7/2018

  9. #409
    Quote Originally Posted by Mazeari View Post
    Tanking on my dk is a walk in the park, you can almost bloodboil and ignore the adds. Just tanked my first run as prot though, 943 gear. like 450k dps. 1 concordance trait. I keep losing agro left and right, sometimes even on bosses. It's redicilous. Like Avengershield, consec, hammer of rightiousness, I thought paladins were kings for AoE tanking. It almost feels as if I miss the old 60% treat buff.
    Even with judgement, crusader and unloading all 3 shield of the righteousness in opener, I still lose agro sometimes.

    Am I missing something or?
    Edit: Survival was fine
    Paladins are absolute shit at AoE i don't even know why you would think they're good. Have you seen the numbers consecrate and hammer do? It's microscopic. Avenger shield doesn't even hit everything correctly. What I usually do is tab a lot to single target everythign a bit. Pallies have pretty good single target, very shit aoe.
    If you want AoE madness go druid or monk, that keg bro, now that's AoE threat.

  10. #410
    Quote Originally Posted by Swalload View Post
    Paladins are absolute shit at AoE i don't even know why you would think they're good. Have you seen the numbers consecrate and hammer do? It's microscopic. Avenger shield doesn't even hit everything correctly. What I usually do is tab a lot to single target everythign a bit. Pallies have pretty good single target, very shit aoe.
    If you want AoE madness go druid or monk, that keg bro, now that's AoE threat.
    have you been doping?
    prot pala are bad at everything except aoe. this is why prot paladins are the best at speed running low m+

  11. #411
    It's funny, people are crying for classic, yes legion is so similar to classic in many ways.
    To name one, spec viability, if you want to tank at a high level, reroll my pally, you are not wanted.

  12. #412
    Quote Originally Posted by Shnider View Post
    have you been doping?
    prot pala are bad at everything except aoe. this is why prot paladins are the best at speed running low m+
    There's a lot of tanks MUCH better at AoE than pallies. I mean even if AoE was pallies strength, it would still be shit compared to other better tanks so it would just mean that absolutely everything they do is complete shit I guess.

    And low M+ are irrelevant I don't know why you bring that up, it doesn't mean anything.

  13. #413
    Dreadlord Vuagnon's Avatar
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    Need help guys. Light speed or Master of Shadows for arcane relic trait? Which one better for raiding?
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonuts View Post
    Pretty sad when being deathgripped is my most reliable gap closer! THAT is some BS too.

  14. #414
    Quote Originally Posted by Swalload View Post
    There's a lot of tanks MUCH better at AoE than pallies. I mean even if AoE was pallies strength, it would still be shit compared to other better tanks so it would just mean that absolutely everything they do is complete shit I guess.

    And low M+ are irrelevant I don't know why you bring that up, it doesn't mean anything.
    Care to elaborate? Can any of the other tanks even get 3m aoe damage on speed running?

  15. #415
    Oh boy, paladin tanks aren't doing well?
    I usually never ever tank but thought it was about time I try something new, most of the time I've exclusively played dps, tried healing once but don't get me started.
    Tanking as a paladin seems very simply, the spells are straight forward and easy to understand as opposed to blood DK. If prot pala tanking really is that bad perhaps I should look at prot warrior or vengeance DH ( since havoc DH already is my main).

  16. #416
    Love my pala tank - enjoy to play it, and I think it's alot about rotation and playstyle...

    I don't have the big issues with threat generation, and just to point out, it's was a pala tank that they ran a M +27 run last time we had the "good" affixes

  17. #417
    Quote Originally Posted by Tiase View Post
    Oh boy, paladin tanks aren't doing well?
    I usually never ever tank but thought it was about time I try something new, most of the time I've exclusively played dps, tried healing once but don't get me started.
    Tanking as a paladin seems very simply, the spells are straight forward and easy to understand as opposed to blood DK. If prot pala tanking really is that bad perhaps I should look at prot warrior or vengeance DH ( since havoc DH already is my main).
    They aren't bad, don't listen to the QQ every tank has their strengths and weaknesses. We have sooooo many cooldowns to handle pretty much everything. if you're thinking about raiding mythic world firsts then you might find some tanks pull ahead on fights more than others but in regards to the average player paladin is fine.

    i've mained pally tank through Legion and not had any problems with it. prot warrior seems a lot worse than paladin atm but play what you like

  18. #418
    Stood in the Fire
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    Hi! How good is the tier 21 2-set bonus for Prot Paladin?

    Is it worth it to downgrade from two 960 ilevel items to two 945 tier pieces, just for the bonus?

    Thanks alot for helping me out!

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