Page 20 of 22 FirstFirst ...
10
18
19
20
21
22
LastLast
  1. #381
    I meant the odds of someone being a genius that helps humanity are higher than the odds of someone being the new Hitler.

  2. #382
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by pateuvasiliu View Post
    I meant the odds of someone being a genius that helps humanity are higher than the odds of someone being the new Hitler.
    So its not rational to abort because we have to take the Hitlers as a byproduct of an innumerable pool of Genius.

    Omg you are bad you go to places to find excuses for you bias.
    Last edited by mmocd79acbf389; 2015-01-02 at 07:38 PM.

  3. #383
    Quote Originally Posted by AbsolutVodka View Post
    It is a saddening case but I agree with the call. She is brain dead, at this point she is just an incubator. It is not an easy decision to make in the least bit, but it is the wish of her family as well.
    EH, I'm sure that she would have wanted to do what was needed to see her child brought into the world. Long as he/she would have been born healthy and had a good home to go to. The Father, Grandparents, Aunts, or Uncles willing to help raise the child.

  4. #384
    Quote Originally Posted by Nixx View Post
    Prove it.
    You only have to compare the number of people that die to wars and the number of people that die to diseases.

    In the last century alone 400 million died to Smallpox, more than the 2 World Wars combined and then doubled.

    Hell you could probably add all the known wars in the last 300 years and you probably wouldn't get 400 million people dead.

    Now those 400 million people are people that didn't get vaccines.

    But billions did. And they didn't die from smallpox. That vaccine alone saved more people than all the wars in the last 1000 years killed.
    Last edited by pateuvasiliu; 2015-01-02 at 07:51 PM.

  5. #385
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Tradewind View Post
    I see you've taken it upon yourself to prove to everyone you know absolutely nothing.
    Kennedy: "The fetus, in many cases, dies just as a human adult or child would: It bleeds to death as it is torn from limb from limb. The fetus can be alive at the beginning of the dismemberment process and can survive for a time while its limbs are being torn off."
    So, yeah.
    That is shit they do sometimes.
    so he is actually right.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Personhood isn't the reason at all. Its a red herring by those who can't get past bodily autonomy arguments.
    That decision was modified by the 1992 case Planned Parenthood v. Casey, which upheld the "central holding" in Roe, but replacing the trimester system with the point of fetal viability (whenever it may occur) as defining a state's right to override the woman's autonomy.
    So, not a red herring.
    its in fact the central thing.
    In fact as i have said a few times, if the foetus were a person as per the 14th, Then Bye Bye abortions.

  6. #386
    Titan MerinPally's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Chemistry block.
    Posts
    13,372
    Ah yes the world famous medical practitioner Anthony Kennedy who... went to law school and actually has no clue about biology.

    Who would I believe, the people who went to medical school or those who are Roman Catholics, many of whom don't even like condoms and are staunchly anti abortion because mystical man in the sky said so...

    Hmm, I wonder who has a better idea...
    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...nicus/advanced
    Quote Originally Posted by goblinpaladin View Post
    Also a vegetable is a person.
    Quote Originally Posted by Orlong View Post
    I dont care if they [gays] are allowed to donate [blood], but I think we should have an option to refuse gay blood if we need to receive blood.

  7. #387
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Nixx View Post
    We know black people suffer.
    killing people is wrong no matter its suffering.

    What's to refute? Your argument is absurdly stupid and offensive. Quite honestly, it may be the dumbest thing you have ever said on this forum and that's not for a lack of competition.
    Its not.
    I define people as people as inclusively as possible.
    isn't even close to being a person and isn't worthy of the rights that come with it.
    this is vague as fuck and everything can be declared non people under it.
    Please give me your Non semantic reason for why a foetus is not a human being?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by MerinPally View Post
    Ah yes the world famous medical practitioner Anthony Kennedy who... went to law school and actually has no clue about biology.

    Who would I believe, the people who went to medical school or those who are Roman Catholics, many of whom don't even like condoms and are staunchly anti abortion because mystical man in the sky said so...

    Hmm, I wonder who has a better idea...
    You are aware that he based his opinion on facts?.
    there are abortions were you cut the foetus into pieces to abort it.
    Also:
    Kennedy, who had co-authored the 5-4 Casey decision upholding Roe,
    So i think maybe you shouldn't diss the guy as some sort of clueless pro lifer, as you know, he didn't strike down Roe when he could, that kinda doesn't work then don't you agree?.
    Last edited by mmocfd561176b9; 2015-01-03 at 12:13 AM.

  8. #388
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Nixx View Post
    Uh, you said it was more likely that someone would move society forward than harm it.
    which is true.
    99% of people are not sociopaths.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Nixx View Post
    Explain in a way that compels others to agree with you.
    Killing people is wrong?
    it is the only moral absolute there is, well that and not lying.
    These things pre-date homo sapiens.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Nixx View Post
    You can do whatever the fuck you want, but that doesn't mean anyone has to care what you think or should care what you think.
    and how do you think i rate your opinion on anything i wonder?
    this was a void statement.
    Feel free to disagree but make an argument of some kind.

  9. #389
    Titan MerinPally's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Chemistry block.
    Posts
    13,372
    Quote Originally Posted by goblinpaladin View Post
    You are aware that he based his opinion on facts?.
    Says who?

    there are abortions were you cut the foetus into pieces to abort it.
    So? Problem? I don't care if they do it with one of these:



    So i think maybe you shouldn't diss the guy as some sort of clueless pro lifer, as you know, he didn't strike down Roe when he could, that kinda doesn't work then don't you agree?.
    A lot of things bleed, it doesn't necessarily have to be human or even alive to bleed so your little quote mine does little to back up "foetuses are people 2"
    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...nicus/advanced
    Quote Originally Posted by goblinpaladin View Post
    Also a vegetable is a person.
    Quote Originally Posted by Orlong View Post
    I dont care if they [gays] are allowed to donate [blood], but I think we should have an option to refuse gay blood if we need to receive blood.

  10. #390
    Quote Originally Posted by goblinpaladin View Post
    killing people is wrong no matter its suffering.


    Its not.
    I define people as people as inclusively as possible.

    this is vague as fuck and everything can be declared non people under it.
    Please give me your Non semantic reason for why a foetus is not a human being?

    - - - Updated - - -



    You are aware that he based his opinion on facts?.
    there are abortions were you cut the foetus into pieces to abort it.
    Also:

    So i think maybe you shouldn't diss the guy as some sort of clueless pro lifer, as you know, he didn't strike down Roe when he could, that kinda doesn't work then don't you agree?.
    The only time you perform an abortion by dismembering the fetus is because the situation is such that the safety of the mother can only be preserved by doing it that way. It's not something that is done for typical abortions.

    I don't care whether a fetus is a human life. What I care about is the right of bodily autonomy, as it is the most important of all rights.

  11. #391
    Quote Originally Posted by goblinpaladin View Post
    holy nonsequiter batman.

    Again, the obsession with late term abortion is completely dishonest. Viability is never an issue in 99% of abortions, and even then those are usually life threatening pregnancies. You people can't get past autonomy when you want to ban abortion, so you ignore it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by goblinpaladin View Post
    Please give me your Non semantic reason for why a foetus is not a human being?
    I assume you feel human life is special. Why is that?

  12. #392
    Immortal Poopymonster's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Neverland Ranch Survivor
    Posts
    7,076
    Quote Originally Posted by goblinpaladin View Post
    Killing people is wrong?
    it is the only moral absolute there is, well that and not lying.
    These things pre-date homo sapiens.
    Killing people is not a moral absolute. It's condoned in times of war, and who you kill is allowed.

    What was considered moral 2000 years ago may not be today (Slavery), and 1000 years from now, people will look at some of the things we did today (Against gay marriage/For gay marriage depending on how times go), and wonder how we could be so fucking stupid. There maybe some absolutes, but killing people is most assuredly not one of them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    Quit using other posters as levels of crazy. That is not ok


    If you look, you can see the straw man walking a red herring up a slippery slope coming to join this conversation.

  13. #393
    Merely a Setback Sunseeker's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    In the state of Denial.
    Posts
    27,085
    Quote Originally Posted by pateuvasiliu View Post
    The only conclusion I draw from that is that her appendix was for some reason transplanted from someone else, because it has a different DNA from hers.
    It is possible to have different genetics in different parts of your body. It's a rare condition, but it does happen. Science!

    Or she could have actually had a transplant.

    But different DNA doesn't give your transplanted liver personhood or bodily rights.
    Human progress isn't measured by industry. It's measured by the value you place on a life.

    Just, be kind.

  14. #394
    Titan PizzaSHARK's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Oklahoma, USA
    Posts
    14,844
    Quote Originally Posted by smrund View Post
    It is possible to have different genetics in different parts of your body. It's a rare condition, but it does happen. Science!
    There was some news article I read involving a woman who had that condition and I think it resulted in her kids not sharing her genetic information and it caused a huge snafu when DNA testing was relevant for some reason or another. Like, I remember reading how she brought proof that she had popped those kids out of her and the people were still disputing it because they didn't share her genetic information or something.
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/PizzaSHARK
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    I also do landscaping on weekends with some mexican kid that I "hired". He's real good because he's 100% obedient to me and does everything I say while never complaining. He knows that I am the man in the relationship and is completely submissive towards me as he should be.
    Quote Originally Posted by SUH View Post
    Crissi the goddess of MMO, if i may. ./bow

  15. #395
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by MerinPally View Post
    Says who?
    But none of this was the argument.
    You said he was wrong, and i pointed out that he wasn't.
    There are abortions procedures that are cutting the foetus into pieces and thereby killing them by dismemberment.
    and your characterisation of Kennedy as a right-wing nut job was laughably wrong.
    So? Problem? I don't care if they do it with one of these:
    Wasn't the fucking argument.
    A lot of things bleed, it doesn't necessarily have to be human or even alive to bleed so your little quote mine does little to back up "foetuses are people 2"
    Wasn't the fucking argument.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Nixx View Post
    The options aren't sociopath or you can't harm society.

    Most people do not harm society.
    this is a self evident statement by nature.
    Look at a fucking graph of well being to population.
    We have gotten much better as population increased since the last 10 000 years.
    Prove there is an absolute and that it predates Homo sapiens.
    it has to do with group cohesion, read later in this post for more details.
    It is not even a universally accepted moral within the species.
    to a degree it is, read again later in this post.
    Besides, even if I concede that killing people is always wrong, we're not talking about killing people. Please stay on topic.
    To me foetuses are people.
    There is nothing compelling in any argument as to why they should be non people.
    As yet i haven even gotten one that wasn't semantic, "Fish are fish so fish is fish"

    I don't care what you rate my opinion because you've made it abundantly clear you're not the slightest bit interested in reasoning or consistency
    I care about reasoning.
    I am utterly consistent.
    You are, too me, just entirely predicated on emotional responses here.
    Find something inconsistent in anything i have posted here, ever.
    Find anything with bad reasoning (do note however, that is not synonymous with "stuff i disagree with").

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    The only time you perform an abortion by dismembering the fetus is because the situation is such that the safety of the mother can only be preserved by doing it that way. It's not something that is done for typical abortions.
    Moot fucking point.
    This is absolutely nothing to do with the statement.
    Also, last i checked the ruling upheld the ban on the procedure, So even more Moot.

    I don't care whether a fetus is a human life. What I care about is the right of bodily autonomy, as it is the most important of all rights.
    No its not.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    holy nonsequiter batman.
    Its not.
    Even if wrong, its not.
    Do you know the meaning of the word?.
    Again, the obsession with late term abortion is completely dishonest.
    This has fucking nothing to do with this.
    Viability is never an issue in 99% of abortions,
    this could have something to do with the fact that 99% of times abortions are legally allowed to happen are prior to viability, so this is a deeply flawed statement.
    You people can't get past autonomy when you want to ban abortion, so you ignore it.
    I can get around it by this very simple statement, Foetuses are people.
    This supports my view:
    fetal viability (whenever it may occur) as defining a state's right to override the woman's autonomy
    as if the foetus was a person, then no fucking abortions.
    see foetal viability is code for meets the standard of person as per the 14th.
    can i dumb this down any more i wonder?.



    I assume you feel human life is special. Why is that?
    Because i am human.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Poopymonster View Post
    Killing people is not a moral absolute. It's condoned in times of war, and who you kill is allowed.
    Not your group.
    Killing anyone in YOUR clan is wrong.
    Also humans have strong inhibitors to use violence on people too, that is why dehumanising the enemy is the standard fare in war.
    http://northstarguide.wordpress.com/...gy-of-killing/

    Even in an environment with high dehumanization of the enemy like in WW2 that doesn’t mean the soldiers in question are conditioned to killing the enemy. After World War 2 Brigadier General S.L.A Marshall discovered that in the European theater of operations that individual riflemen only took shots against exposed enemy soldiers 15-20% of the time.
    There maybe some absolutes, but killing people is most assuredly not one of them.
    You are a lone person, and you want to survive.
    then you meet other people and you think of a few rules to guarantee your survival and be helpful, what are those rules invariably?
    They are, Not killing people (your fellow group members), as you want to survive, and not lying as if lying is condoned communication falls apart.
    These are well established facts.
    Last edited by mmocfd561176b9; 2015-01-03 at 02:10 PM.

  16. #396
    Quote Originally Posted by goblinpaladin View Post
    You are, too me, just entirely predicated on emotional responses here.
    Oh wow, that is just pure comedy gold coming from you.

    Here's a very simple deduction of the whole argument:

    Mother (grown up human) + Bodily autonomy > Fetus (unborn, undeveloped, non-viable biomass with zero value)

    Or in this case:

    Mother (dead grown up woman) and her family's dignity > Fetus with zero chance of survival gestating in a corpse

    Or in case of a medical emergency (late-stage abortion):

    Mother's life (grown up human) > Fetus's life (unborn, but probably viable biomass with zero value)
    Last edited by nevermore; 2015-01-03 at 03:58 PM.

  17. #397
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by nevermore View Post
    Oh wow, that is just pure comedy gold coming from you.
    This will be good for me too i guess.

    Here's a very simple deduction of the whole argument:
    Mother (grown up human) + Bodily autonomy > Fetus (unborn, undeveloped, non-viable biomass with zero value)
    Okay, its not.
    to begin with, there is a series of arguments, so this is wrong.
    Now reduced to just this as you did its:
    Mother (grown up human) + Bodily autonomy ? Fetus (young human) + legal standing in a court
    which is painfully obvious if you read this:
    fetal viability (whenever it may occur) as defining a state's right to override the woman's autonomy
    the question is entirely whether or not the foetus has legal standing.
    so even further distilled it is:
    Mother < Fetus
    the entire fucking sticking point is, do the Foetus qualify for status as a person just like everybody else.
    bodily autonomy is inherently irrelevant.

    Or in this case:
    Mother (dead grown up woman) and her family's dignity > Fetus with zero chance of survival gestating in a corpse
    No its more like:
    Mother, opinions of which we need to care absolutely nothing about as she is dead, if cutting her into pieces and otherwise desecrating her body would help the foetus, you have to be disturbed not to do so. < Fetus
    Now to be fair, this case was not going to end well, so that meant there was no point.
    Or in case of a medical emergency (late-stage abortion):
    Mother's life (grown up human) > Fetus's life (unborn, but probably viable biomass with zero value)
    Should one person die or two persons die?
    that is a very difficult question.
    No wait its not, the exception in case of the mothers health is a fucking given.
    but i should rephrase it again.
    Mother's life > Fetus's and the mother
    Also:
    (unborn, but probably viable biomass with zero value)
    is reprehensible.
    even Nixx thinks the foetus has value (which was the person i was replying too) even if she is firmly on the mothers side.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by nevermore View Post
    In other countries the parents don't even give names to their kids until they reach a certain age because they can't even be bothered (that, and superstition).
    HA Ha ha.
    Lol this is pants on head wrong.
    Its to reduce to sense of loss incurred if they die.
    if your pet pig dies you are sad.
    if your pig dies you aren't sad.
    naming things changes the empathy we give it.
    it has nothing what-so-fucking-ever to do with being bothered.
    Not to mention if we really wanted to go into how many people actually do something to make the world a better place VS how many people are just useless resource-sucking leeches... I have a hunch which way the scales would tip.
    this is trivially stupid.

    human development has done what the last thousand years ?
    more humans are inherently good for that.
    you have a better argument that we will run out of space, but more people is inherently good.
    Last edited by mmocfd561176b9; 2015-01-03 at 04:40 PM.

  18. #398
    Merely a Setback Sunseeker's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    In the state of Denial.
    Posts
    27,085
    Quote Originally Posted by goblinpaladin View Post
    So, yeah.
    That is shit they do sometimes.
    so he is actually right.
    Everything with blood dies by bleeding when it's torn apart. Are cows people? They die just like any adult human would.
    Human progress isn't measured by industry. It's measured by the value you place on a life.

    Just, be kind.

  19. #399
    Quote Originally Posted by goblinpaladin View Post
    this is trivially stupid.
    http://www.zo.utexas.edu/faculty/sja...ages/52.20.gif
    human development has done what the last thousand years ?
    more humans are inherently good for that.
    you have a better argument that we will run out of space, but more people is inherently good.
    WTF does the exponential human population growth have to do with humans being 'inherently good' ?

    Due to the advances of technology, medicine and agriculture we eat more and die less, therefore we are inherently good?

    human development has done what the last thousand years ?
    more humans are inherently good for that.
    This, especially the second line makes no sense at all.

    is reprehensible.
    even Nixx thinks the foetus has value (which was the person i was replying too) even if she is firmly on the mothers side.
    Right, so... what exactly is that value newborns (and unborn fetuses) hold?
    Try to answer this question without appealing to emotion or invoking religious talking points.

    Because a grown-up woman, especially if she lives in a developed country, has had a large amount of resources thrown at hear from the day she was born. She's gone through 12+ years of education and is a fully functional adult. She's most likely a contributing and productive member of society either through work or as a homekeeper. She's been collecting and assessing information in her brain for decades. She's biologically fully developed and is able to procreate.

    What does a newborn have/do?

  20. #400
    What it boils down to, since GoblinPaladin seems intent on avoiding this point, is that the only thing special about humans is our mind. When that isn't present we're nothing more than sacks of meat. A fetus or a vegetable is still a human, but its asinine to call it a person.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •