Quick Question on DPS rankings for Spriest lvl 100 Talents

[rap87]

Hi guys,

I've spent some time over on icy veins, here, and worldofwarcraft.com forums. I've mainly always been a Warlock, or occasional DK, and have raided in, I suppose the word is now "mythic" guilds. I'm returning now on a more casual basis looking for two nights a week heroics with my wife playing with me as well. I am trying to research her spec and put together a guide for her to (min/max, know her class) and I'm somewhat confused by what dps route she should take.

I thought Void Entropy looked like a version of "Doom" for priests and fit in with the basic Shadow Priest rotation anyway and I initially thought that was a good option, but I keep getting hints in the guides that it sucks.

So it seems everyone is going with "Clarity of Power" and there is also a Dot Weaving version of playing this. Well, I can already tell from looking at it, I might be able to learn that myself, but it also seems to be a spec for the 3 nights a week, mythic crowd min/maxing and it might give my inexperienced wife a hard time. I'm not sure it'll work well especially it being so different from the normal style of play she's learned in the past and is leveling with.

With that said, what are the rankings of/dps of:

Clarity of Power (Play like a dotless Shadow Priest, and only use VT,SWP on adds or alternate targets)
Clarity of Power Lite (Apparently, you do everything as normal, but just benefit from reduced cd Mind Blast)
Void Entropy
Clarity of Power (Dot Weaving)

I'm thinking She'd be find learning just Clarity of Power, but I wonder if Void Entropy beats the "Lite" version or what...

Sorry, if the answer is buried somewhere, I felt lucky as getting the low down on Demo and Affliction wasn't half as bad as the many options as the Spriests have going on lol. I will say I really enjoy the Spriest's basic rotation and I'm envious she gets to heal . I love demo, but between affliction vs spriest, spriest may certainly edge out on the fun factor sometimes, I certainly enjoy playing her toon here and there. In any case, thanks for the help, happy new year!

[Relapses]

You're not likely to find many logs of SPriests playing anything other than CoP-dotweave. In its current iteration, it is the end-all, be-all level 100 talent and play-style choice for competitive players. CoP lite isn't a thing. Our mastery was buffed and it's always more DPS to CoP-dotweave. Non-dotweave CoP is no bueno. AS requires more crit than we have on gear to be competitive. And finally, you should never spec VEnt under any circumstance. Avoid this talent like a deaf, blind kid would want to avoid the diagnosis of cancer on Christmas morning.

[Jervaise]

I've read your post unlike above so bear with me,

Yes, CoP dotweave is the best single target stand still option you have there.

However, for a more casual gamestyle, dotweave is not a must. Also, in heavy movement fights, you barely get great opportunities for dotweaving. Butcher and Kargath normal/heroic might be the only occasions where you might get to stand still almost the entire fight. Other min/max actions are necessary in most mythic fights.

Before everything, forget void entropy, since it really really is bad atm.


However, good news, your wife has got some options:

1) CoP normal: This is the intended version of CoP. It is the best option for a bit more casual gamestyle. You basically spam mind spike and with every 3 orbs you do DP and insanity. Rinse and repeat. You can keep dots on secondary targets, or also play with SoD on multi target fights while spamming mind spike on main target and dumping all dots on off target with no mind flay. This rotation isn't that much behind dotweaving and it is perfectly viable if not min maxing for mythic etc.
2) CoP lite: This is dead in terms of min maxing. It basically is: Play with dots and mind flay, benefit from instant mind blast. However if you are really fond of the old spriest playstyle, it can again be used knowing 10-15% dps loss *relative inaccurate numbers
3) AS: Although very much behind any of the above at the moment, once you reach 20-25% selfbuffed crit + 4set t17 it will be viable and on par with CoP dotweave *what is being talked in h2p in terms of theorycrafting, so take it as an estimate. Again, if you are really fond of the old spriest playstyle, even at this moment AS can be taken knowing you will do 10-15% less damage.

Good luck!

Edit: If you still go down the route of dotweaving, there are alternate versions of it as well. One of them, although being below in terms of minmaxing the other one, is a lot simpler to execute. However, general dotweave session planning is done according to haste levels. Above certain haste breakpoints your gcd management shifts and you have to reconsider the weave style you go for - with filler gcds here and there. Check h2p if you'd like to learn more about it, there are a couple 20+ pages of discussions on this there.

[Relapses]

I've read your post unlike above so bear with me

I answered his questions. You could have just said, "read this shit on H2P," and saved yourself a lot of keystrokes, too.

[Comis]

...

This is actually probably the most concise and useful explanation of current spriest I've seen.

[rap87]

Hey guys,

First of all thank you both for taking your time out to say anything constructive. I'm used to going to say Elitist Jerks and seeing a Simulation Craft sim on specs and then seeing well this is this far off of this spec and this is that far etc. Even at the casual level I wouldn't want to be giving up 10 to 15%. I'd be more okay with 5% tops...

I'll try to understand the dot weaving myself. I'll strike off VE.

It sort of does suck if you do like the normal Shadow Priest rotation that it isn't even viable, but it is what it is.

I will go to Howtopriest and read there.

Lastly, COP normal doesn't seem difficult, and I believe ice veins talked about it. How far behind is this? Also if say I started her learning that is that a good way to intro into the "dot weaving" playstyle. Meaning she might be less optimal at first using COP Normal, but is it still ahead of everything else and is a good stepping stone to learning the advanced version?

AS, I believe that was intended for AOE, but interesting you noted with gear that is equal...guess that might be an eventual way to go back to the old rotation if you like?

Again thank you very much!

[Cephster]

Hey guys,

First of all thank you both for taking your time out to say anything constructive. I'm used to going to say Elitist Jerks and seeing a Simulation Craft sim on specs and then seeing well this is this far off of this spec and this is that far etc. Even at the casual level I wouldn't want to be giving up 10 to 15%. I'd be more okay with 5% tops...

I'll try to understand the dot weaving myself. I'll strike off VE.

It sort of does suck if you do like the normal Shadow Priest rotation that it isn't even viable, but it is what it is.

I will go to Howtopriest and read there.

Lastly, COP normal doesn't seem difficult, and I believe ice veins talked about it. How far behind is this? Also if say I started her learning that is that a good way to intro into the "dot weaving" playstyle. Meaning she might be less optimal at first using COP Normal, but is it still ahead of everything else and is a good stepping stone to learning the advanced version?

AS, I believe that was intended for AOE, but interesting you noted with gear that is equal...guess that might be an eventual way to go back to the old rotation if you like?

Again thank you very much!

None of the rotations are "hard" or "advanced" persay. They're just changing what you cast each GCD. It's all about muscle memory. Personally I would teach her the optimal rotation, rather than confuse by starting with something "simple" and then changing it up as soon as she's learned it. Have her spend time on a training dummy learning the rotation until she knows what to cast next without thinking about it. Realistically that only takes 15-20 minutes to have it down pat.

Then start doing some LFRs and practicing the rotation under raid conditions, learning what to cast if you miss a GCD during movement, keeping damage up while passing mechanics, etc. LFR is a great place to practice because literally nothing will kill you even if you screw up, so you can continue to get practice.

[Angelicat]

The "muscle memory" involved to properly do a dotweave isn't hard per-say but it's definitely not something a new or returning casual spriest can pick up easily especially once you start adding mechanics and movement on fights.

It depends on how seriously your wife wants to take her spriest, and the guild she's in obviously. If you guys really are just raiding casually which is what I get from your post and there's no real demand on her to be the best she can be, then she can go the CoPLite route of just throwing dots up and mindflaying, which is better on multi-target fights since dotweaving on multi-target is pretty complicated, or the regular cop route where you spam mindspike, DP, and insanity, which is better on single target compared to CoPLite.

DoTweave is not a huge gain over regular CoP or even CoPLite. Despite people constantly mentioning how CoPLite is dead or how you need to DoTweave to be competitive, this is simply not true. Dotweave gives you a mindspike and a half every 5 orb rotation. Looking at my heroic butcher kill this week, I gain about 5%~ damage from dotweaving compared to regular CoP. While a decent gain for someone who cares about maximizing damage, it's not a make or break in the grand scheme of things. Proper shadow play along with just making sure you are always casting as much as you can, especially <20% will give you far more damage than learning how to properly dotweave.

If you want her to learn something, teach her the ABCs of DPSing more-so than anything else. Dotweave is advance play for min-maxers who want to take their game to the next level, not something that a new spriest needs to do to be competitive, especially not in a casual environment.

[rap87]

The "muscle memory" involved to properly do a dotweave isn't hard per-say but it's definitely not something a new or returning casual spriest can pick up easily especially once you start adding mechanics and movement on fights.

It depends on how seriously your wife wants to take her spriest, and the guild she's in obviously. If you guys really are just raiding casually which is what I get from your post and there's no real demand on her to be the best she can be, then she can go the CoPLite route of just throwing dots up and mindflaying, which is better on multi-target fights since dotweaving on multi-target is pretty complicated, or the regular cop route where you spam mindspike, DP, and insanity, which is better on single target compared to CoPLite.

DoTweave is not a huge gain over regular CoP or even CoPLite. Despite people constantly mentioning how CoPLite is dead or how you need to DoTweave to be competitive, this is simply not true. Dotweave gives you a mindspike and a half every 5 orb rotation. Looking at my heroic butcher kill this week, I gain about 5%~ damage from dotweaving compared to regular CoP. While a decent gain for someone who cares about maximizing damage, it's not a make or break in the grand scheme of things. Proper shadow play along with just making sure you are always casting as much as you can, especially <20% will give you far more damage than learning how to properly dotweave.

If you want her to learn something, teach her the ABCs of DPSing more-so than anything else. Dotweave is advance play for min-maxers who want to take their game to the next level, not something that a new spriest needs to do to be competitive, especially not in a casual environment.

Thanks Angel, I think the COP (reg) is the way to go especially if I'm only losing about 5% dps. The always be casting, filling GCDs effectively, and boss mechanics are of course more important than much of the spec choices. Which as a long time raider and accessing a player's ability, I understand having a "simpler" rotation, which may possibly "bore" me, is great for someone that still has to get all those other things right. I think going COP reg is the best mix of getting the most of the spec whilst also not complicating the class too much for her as well. If a month or so from now if she's fluidly moving through everything with no issue and she gets the urge to want to try to beat people on meters etc, I'll tell her about the other dot weaving. And as you say I just thought of DOT Weave as an advanced version. Like as DEMO I had a damn alternate Mastery Set last expansion that I would have a macro to equip a bunch of Master gear, pre demo form, , switch gear, and then pull. Or of course Dot Snapshotting Dooms, or Soul Swap was huge etc. Those were all advanced things that were fun as hell when you were at that level, or something we'd do to "get it all"...but most people would be like WTF this is convoluted, and isn't something I know she'd do....Thanks all again!