Incarnation vs Soul of the Forest

[Nr]

I noticed recently that most high level Boomkins are usually specced into Incarnation rather than Soul of the Forest, which in theory seems like trading a bunch of DPS (not much, but still), for slightly more control over burst. What is the reason for that? Does Incarnation become better at some point in gear (haste, mastery) or is it just because people are used to nuke macros in things like Imperator transitions?

[Deleted]

Because you can still line it up with Celestial Alignment, and it will be a different story once the tier bonuses come into place.

[Nr]

Yeah, but I noticed that on Imperator HC for example, if I lined it up with CA with the macro (Inc -> CA), I was pushing 2-3k more than I would with Soul during burst, but overall, during the entire bossfight, my damage was much lower. But possibly I'm just doing it wrong.

[Deleted]

Main reason is that SotF grants no benefit for more than 1 target, so as we start preferring starfall with 2 or more targets sotf becomes essentially worthless.

[huth]

Main reason is that SotF grants no benefit for more than 1 target, so as we start preferring starfall with 2 or more targets sotf becomes essentially worthless.

Worth less, anyway. It's hard to get to a point where you don't use Starsurge, and it will only get harder as gear accrues.

[Nr]

Aren't you supposed to prefer Starfall from 3 targets, so basically it makes sense on Tectus and pieces of other fights (upstairs on Kargath, Ko'ragh add AOE, Imperator last phase)

[xtramuscle]

2+ since the +75% buff weeks ago.

So also twins, most of brackenspore etc.

[Phookah]

SotF is one of those "looks great on paper, on a 1 target fight that is patchwerk" talents. I'm sure it'll see more use once we hit BRF and get set bonuses + actual single target bosses.

[Deleted]

Incarnation sims better single targ depending on your trinkets. that's why most are going inc > sotf

[huth]

Given the relative lack of single target fights in Highmaul, that has very little to do with it.

[bunnyhat]

As I started stepping into Mythic I've pretty much dropped soul of the forest completely.
There's been so few fights where I can stop and cast often enough to make it worthwhile. Spend so much time running around to cast often with just enough time to get 30 seconds of casting done every minute or so.

[Deleted]

Given the relative lack of single target fights in Highmaul, that has very little to do with it.

Single target has literally everything to do with it. SoTF was only considered a dps increase in single target because it loses a massive amount of value 2+ targets with starfall usage instead of starsurge. Hence why i'm saying in a ST situation (the only situation this discussion is relevant) that dependent on trinkets Inc will beat out SoTF

[huth]

Single target has literally everything to do with it. SoTF was only considered a dps increase in single target because it loses a massive amount of value 2+ targets with starfall usage instead of starsurge. Hence why i'm saying in a ST situation (the only situation this discussion is relevant) that dependent on trinkets Inc will beat out SoTF

It was considered a single target DPS increase because it is massively weaker in multi-target enviroments? What kind on nonsensical logic is that? People go with Inc because the majority of currently relevant fights is multi-target and SotF is only a minor improvement in the rest, not because of trinkets.

[Deleted]

It was considered a single target DPS increase because it is massively weaker in multi-target enviroments? What kind on nonsensical logic is that? People go with Inc because the majority of currently relevant fights is multi-target and SotF is only a minor improvement in the rest, not because of trinkets.

Ok, in fairness I worded my last post wrong. Soul of the forest was only ever better than incarnation in terms of sim, in a single target fight. People go with inc on multi targ because soul has literally no benefits (in the sense that you are switching out starsurge usage for starfall 2+ targs), whereas inc scales well. Hence my argument was worded assuming you knew this information, and that the discussion was only about inc vs sotf in a single target situation, because comparing them multi target is literally just stupid. Incarnation however is now the go to talent for all fights , including butcher, because depending on your trinkets it beats out soul, not because of anything else.

[huth]

And you seriously believe more than a handful of players even care about that? Most people don't even get beyond the baseline guides and BiS lists, if that far. They don't concern themselves with the "why" of using a certain talent over another, they just do what the guides tell them.

And since you can fairly easily get through everything with Inc and at best suffer minor losses on a minority of fights compared to SotF, that's what the beginner's guides are recommending.

[Deleted]

And here was me thinking people go to these websites to find out the "why". *and ask specific questions directly comparing the two talents* to see which is better and why

[huth]

Thousands of people go to these websites, yet you can count those questions on one hand including repeats. So they generally don't do that, no.

[xtramuscle]

But why Huth, why!?

[huth]

Look at LFR. Then think hard whether you really, really want to know.

[Dr420]

In my opinion you see a lot of boomkins with incarn because its used for the transition phases in the last fight of the current inastance, so after killing imp and logging out thats the last talent they had. I like switching talents for the small boost in damage depending on the fight, and im sure many min/max ers do the same thing. Could not be the case but makes sense to me.