How are master WW Monks holding up in PvP?

[Nihilanth]

I mean really good Monks that know how to use the class, in and out, how are you holding up in PvP? Which classes give you trouble, which classes can you easily beat?

Any tips for a soon-to-be-100 monk?

[Rollatorklm]

i dont normally say this, but ww monks are by far the worst class in arena right now

It was a poor choice to level it m8

They where already behind everyone else before the 15% pve nerf, and now they are just way too bad to even be considdered viable

You might aswell spec brewmaster and learn it, its what we are forced to play to play at a competetive level atm

[Buxton McGraff]

I leveled my WW as my 4th 100, and am only in 3/4 honor right now but WW feels really lame.
They took away a lot of the cool things that made WW unique like the stacking parry buff.
It's still fun to play, I like the 100 talents and you can do decent damage but your survivability is limited to rolling/serpent kicking away from the battle and spamming detox/heals before running back in.

[Avlivar]

Requires 150% effort to be equal to the plate DPS classes. Much more utility, though (compared to Warrior and DK). And if skilled can put out insane multi-target damage.

Trick comes in knowing how to survive. Even then it's hard when Touch of Karma is so iffy.

[Deleted]

Been maining monk since mop and so far im not liking it at all, we just do everything worse then certain melees, not gonna name any because i hate them
We are pretty good in pve tho although some 2 button classes can still get ahead in certain situations

[Volibear]

I've heard bad things about WW, but also really good things about BrM. MW on the other hand, you're just a pillar-humping turret. It's like playing PvP resto druid, but with cast times.

[keishton]

Im putting brms on the same tier as blood dks. Theyre pretty sick. Im expecting this will be the only season when theyre viable tho. Tank specs usually scale worse than others with gear

[cqwrteur]

The worst thing is that WW could not do none-stack aoe. And BLZ NEVER takes account of it, so WW is useless in AV, IOC and Ashran.

[Thallidomaniac]

Have all the nerfs made WW even worse than say, Ele Shaman now?

[Rollatorklm]

Have all the nerfs made WW even worse than say, Ele Shaman now?

after ele got buffed (dont recall how, but they where)
They started to be ahead of monks (about the same time as stance got nerfed for monks)

Ww is by far the worst pvp spec in wow atm

[Deleted]

Sorry to say this but WW is the worst pvp class atm in EVERY aspect of pvp (bottom middle in 1v1).

[MrCool]

MW on the other hand, you're just a pillar-humping turret. It's like playing PvP resto druid, but with cast times.

Or put another way, MW is a disc priest:
- that has restrictions on his abilities (Chi cost, Stance lockout, GCD on stance change)
- that has to be in melee range to use atonement (because lol jade lightning, and waste 2 GCDs btw... oh, and no snare because reasons)
- that forgot to put offensive dispel on action bars
- that has a stronger bubble (but with longer CD)
- that can't cast his main heal while moving

EDIT: as for WW, it's certainly the worst melee spec to play atm. Not sure how they do against the worst casters though.

[Ailylia]

In the rock, paper, scissors of Arena PvP, WW monk threw lizard. Lizard can eat paper, but is crushed by rock and cut in half by scissors. I think the only "paper" right now is maybe spriest, as I've never lost to an spriest.

Basically, you can win against lesser skilled opponents but of equal skill, almost every class has enough tools to take care of WW monk. Compared to last season when WW monk was quite fun and viable due to better selfhealing and more control, it feels now like every class is negating our unique abilities like ToK, our self healing is tremendously diminished, and our control we used to have is still decent but other classes do it better.

[SamuraiJakkass86]

I won't consider myself a master, and I play random BG's for PVP so it's not like I was a pro to begin with.

However I'm enjoying my WW monk in PVP. I'm not sure how much (if at all) anyone else uses SEF in pvp, but I find it extremely useful to be able to throw out some spirits and CJL from a range with RJW ticking away. I love that the second I throw out those clones, players who aren't paying attention don't know which one is me, and start killing the clones instead. I wish I had better ranged utility, such as a stronger CJL (some way to make it strong would be awesome) but I work with what I have, and what I have is pretty damned sweet.

I try to stay away from being the focus though, because I'm squishy as shit, have bad CC-breaks, and my only self-healing comes from Expel Harm and that pitiful Surging Mist when I have downtime between fights. As an outlier that people tend to not prioritize, I find my biggest asset is in deception and crowd control (Paralyze an enemy healer, Leg Sweep the FC or healer, Fists of Fury everyone I can get my claws on, disable disable disable - all with RJW up of course.)

All of this said, I run into two major issues in addition to the lack of defensive ability mentioned above;

1. I play on the EU server, but live in the US. That means my active PVP time is dominated by cheating russian premades in the mornings, so PVP in the evening hours is when we actually have any real chance at not getting steam-rolled in the first place.

2. As mentioned previously I play random BG's. People there seldom have any idea what they're supposed to do. There are so many BG maps now, that are seemingly half-developed and designed to snowball - that any teammates that are even slightly confused or take too long to process thoughts will pretty much cause an automatic loss.

Still fun to play WW in pvp though.

[Terahertz]

If you want some true insight then I'll tell you how they're holding up. Also if you want to know more, just go to the official forums of either EU or US and you'll see how many ww monks are crying for change.

WW monks are easily countered by many classes and easily killed by many melee due to the amount of dmg we take and how weak Touch of Karma is. Not only that, our damage is much more difficult to set up, or at least use than other melee. We have to Jab, which takes a GCD and then we use a BoK for 8k dmg. In theory, plus the Jab damage you've just only done 9k damage in 2 globals while a ret paladin can do that kind of damage with a Judgment which is only one GCD (Monk GCD = 1 sec, 2 globals = 2 sec, paladin GCD = 1.5 sec - haste). So damage wise alone we're in a bad spot compared to other melee due to slower set up of damage.

Then like I said, survivability is a huge issue. Healing Elixirs is STILL bugged as it's only healing you for 11% of max hp instead of 15%. Surging Mist is difficult to use due to the Energy cost and its healing is negligible in situations where you can't do anything but heal. Touch of Karma breaks instantly and we take so much damage passively as well.

Next issue is mobility/up-time. WW monks are probably without a doubt one of the easiest classes to kite for medium-high mobility classes like druids, hunters, rogues and maybe even mages if played right simply due to the amount of passive slows, ranged slows etc we can't catch up to anyone outside of our abilities. Disable is a pain to use and often times we need to use our only CC; Paralyze on our target to reliably catch up.

However, WW monks have the easiest time escaping in a short period of time, which is where the majority of our survivability comes from; running away. A rogue will be able to run away more reliably, but a WW monk will be able to escape better in a short period of time when it actually matters due to our portal, flying serpent kick and rolls. The problem is though that we have to use such abilities to even get some bit of up time on our target in the first place.

Basically in a world of 24/7 instant, ranged, passive slows where basically every single class has a way to create a tiny gap between us as well as clear roots, WW monks are having a really hard time.

As a final note: A well played WW monk will be beaten by a fotm melee cleave no matter how well you play. If the opponents know a single thing about CD management you'll most likely lose.

[Saverem]

Have all the nerfs made WW even worse than say, Ele Shaman now?

I just leveled an Enh Sham to 100 and am in the process of leveling my Monk now (she's 98).

I can say that they both have pros and cons. I know you asked about Ele, but Enh is much closer to WW.


Enh definitely has waaaaaay better AoE. Can't even compare. The only time the WW comes close to AoE to Enh is when I summon Xuen. Don't know if the level 100 talents make up for it though.


As far as single target DPS, I like the feel of the WW a lot more. The Enh rotation is way too over-convoluted. There are too many abilities and too many procs to keep track of. The learning curve is much higher than any other class I played thus far. With that said, you do get a lot more tricks as an Enh. You have more utility with Purge, totem buffs, 2 shields, etc. Again, they have a lot more buttons to keep track of. I had 3 bars full of abilities on my Enh to keep track of and only like 2 on my Monk.

If you're into tons of buttons and having to keep procs and such in mind, Enh is for you. I like the WW rotation a lot more though.

As far is sustained DPS, don't know which is higher. Shaman wins in burst and AoE damage, WW wins in mobility/escapes and CC.

- - - Updated - - -

Or put another way, MW is a disc priest:
- that has restrictions on his abilities (Chi cost, Stance lockout, GCD on stance change)
- that has to be in melee range to use atonement (because lol jade lightning, and waste 2 GCDs btw... oh, and no snare because reasons)
- that forgot to put offensive dispel on action bars
- that has a stronger bubble (but with longer CD)
- that can't cast his main heal while moving

EDIT: as for WW, it's certainly the worst melee spec to play atm. Not sure how they do against the worst casters though.

Uuuuh... Sorry to break it to you, but actually Disc bubble is stronger than Life Cocoon.... You're just counting PW:S, but they actually have more than just that 1 bubble that they cast...

[MrCool]

Uuuuh... Sorry to break it to you, but actually Disc bubble is stronger than Life Cocoon.... You're just counting PW:S, but they actually have more than just that 1 bubble that they cast...

I agree with you, PW:S is better than LC.
LC has bigger numbers but as I said, the CD is longer (actually, yea, much longer)
And the remainder of my post is pretty clear that DP easily outclasses MW.

[Ealyssa]

Playing BrM scumcomp is the only real option if you want agility gear on your monk in PVP

[JaoStar]

I gave up on WW in PvP. They used to be killer one vs. one but the stacking parry buff, decrease in overall avoidance, disarms gone, lack luster talents and glphs, no real self heals or bubbles, can't do it anymore time to re-roll.

Rogues even have stealth and more utility to give them more survivability, such as evasion, smoke screen, cloak of whatever. All we really have is ToK and that's about it. To me chi isn't the answer at all, makes us feel too much like rogues without the utility.

[starkey]

Was watching venruki stream 3's with his WW monk and it was painful to watch, so he switched to Brewmaster he had alot of success with druid,dk,brewmaster and dk,brew,holy pally