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  1. #1

    [ Protection ] Tank Logs Guide & Analysis ( Read OP First )

    Warriors!

    I think with all the recent logs cropping up for analysis of Protection Warrior's out there who might be doing poorly in damage done, and more importantly, damage taken, we should consolidate into a thread containing a guide on HOW to analyze your own logs. Arming those new to it, so they can avoid posting a terrible set of logs to be told "do you even shield block bro?" or worse.. We have a similar guide for Warrior (Fury, Arms, Glad ) DPS analysis created by Aurora HERE.

    Protection Warriors traditionally are one of the better tanks at reducing incoming damage. We've been the only tank at points in WOW history and it wasn't until Cataclysm that tanking abilities used Actively had the ability to reduce incoming damage. Previously, we had been limited to Shield Wall and Gearing strategies, CTC tables, and whatnot. With access to new software and reporting capability it has never been easier to identify exactly why a tank died and how they were using those new Active Mitigation abilties.

    Protection Warriors have the following abilties to reduce incoming damage:

    Active Mitigation Abiltiies:

    Shield Block
    Costs 60 Rage
    ( Blocks 100% of melee attacks, reducing damage taken by 30%, Critical Blocks reduce damage taken by 60% ).
    2 Charges, 12 second Recharge.
    Shield Block is our primary source of reduction in Melee Damage.

    Shield Barrier
    Costs between 20 and 60 Rage
    ( Dependant on Resolve, up to 25% of the Warriors Health Pool )
    Shield Barrier is our primary source of reduction in Magic Damage.

    Cooldowns:

    Healing Tonic ( 1 per fight )
    This can be a huge health bump consumable.

    Shield Wall ( 2min CD )
    Reduce all incoming damage by 40%

    Demoralizing Shout ( 1min CD ) 10yd Range
    Reduce all damage done by targets debuffed by demo shout by 20% for 8 seconds.

    Last Stand ( 3m CD )
    Increase Max Health by 30%, lasts 15 seconds.

    Enraged Regeneration ( 1min CD )
    Instantly Restore 10% HP, and an additional 20% hp over 5 seconds.

    Ravager ( 1min CD )
    In Addition to the damage Ravager does, it also provides us with 30% Parry for it's duration of 10 seconds.


    How to Analyze a Prot Warrior

    How to Log?
    Many guides have been written on overall analysis of raiders using Warcraftlogs, but this one is the best source for general advice and a good walkthrough on How to Log:
    http://www.cannotbetamed.com/evaluat...warcraft-logs/


    Prot War Basics
    - Uptime on Shield Block should be around 45%, with extra rage put into Shield Barriers. See Resources and Buff Uptime Below.
    - A Prot Warrior tanking first can chain 18 seconds of Shield Block before they need to worry about having a gap. Almost all fights have around a 30 second tank swap window, so when analyzing a tank, you should expect this 18 second coverage starting right as the fight starts or shortly thereafter.
    - Healing Tonics and Healthstones are affected by Resolve. I've seen them heal for upwards of 240k HP before. These should be used in critical situations where the tank needs to help reduce healing stress.
    - A Good prot warrior will also reduce incoming damage for their offtank, using Safeguard or Vigilance. The alternative talent in that row is usually not helpful ( mass spell reflect ), so check out the uptime on these abilties as well.


    Heroic Butcher Analysis

    I'm going to use a pug kill of Heroic Butcher I did last week for the guide. During this kill I had been comfortable that the healers were fairly overgeared and I focused on my damage done along with the usual. Heroic Butcher has 2 primary tank debuffs ( The Tenderizer and The Cleaver ). What's also important is that even when a tank doesn't have active threat, they are still taking damage from Heavy Handed. All of The Butchers melee attacks cleave into the offtank. Because of this, and the fact that you can't have 100% active mitigation time there will be large periods of time where you are just getting hit on the chin. It should also be noted that if you are not reducing incoming damage, then your OFFTANK takes more damage as well. You can also block/absorb the cleave damage.

    My Current Armory, now 6 ilvl higher ( http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...%C3%BCs/simple )

    Logs link: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done

    First i'm going to look at damage taken, to see if there are any large discrepancies.

    I've a lot less damage than my co-tank, and looking at ilvl you can see that something probably went wrong here.

    Almost all Raid Bosses have a Debuff, requiring a tank swap ( forcing us to bring 2 tanks ), since we see that large discrepancy in damage taken, Either my Co-tank was asleep and not actively mitigating, or we screwed up the tank swaps:

    On Butcher, the ability that you want to swap for is called The Tenderizer. You should swap at 2 Stacks.
    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...ability=156147

    You can see my cotank and I managed these stacks properly. You shouldn't be going to a third stack at any point. And sometimes you can avoid the second stack ( which I managed as I was taunting before bounding cleave ).

    On Butcher, there is another ability tanks need to watch out for, called The Cleaver. This ability can be avoided and if it is not avoided it will stack a bleed that does a ton of damage. Here is how we managed on The Cleaver stacks:


    Since Prot Paladins, and Prot Warriors are block tanks, they traditionally don't avoid a lot of incoming attacks ( like The Cleaver ), we instead block it, taking less damage. One trick a Prot Warrior can use is to bring Ravager to The Butcher. Using Ravager to help provide avoidance can reduce the number of stacks you take and reduce your overall damage taken significantly. You can use the events view in Warcraft logs to see just exactly when you parried The Cleaver. It's important to note that The Cleaver doesn't start applying until 12seconds in, so you should delay your ravager until that point if you are tanking first. I believe I had quite a bit more avoidance + ravager than my Paladin co-tank so I avoided The Cleaver a lot better.



    Active Mitigation Uptime

    Take a look at how often I used Shield Block and Shield Barrier. You can see that my Shield Block usage was mostly concentrated for when I was the active tank, and Barrier usage was for when I was the offtank and only getting hit by Bleed Damage from The Cleaver, and Heavy Handed Cleaving strikes.


    This is a slightly low percentage of uptime on Shield Block. I could have definitely fit in a shield block or 3 for when I wasn't the active tank, especially considering how I screwed up the taunts above. I wanted to ensure I had 2 charges ready to go for each taunt but could have done that AND had a few extra blocks. You can also see that Block coverage was good ( large blocks, means shield block charges used back to back ) and ravager was used in conjunction while I was the active tank. This definitely helped reduce bleed damage from The Cleaver stacks as I covered earlier.

    I believe Butcher is actually one of the harder fights to analyze, because Active Mitigation done by the Maintank effects how much damage the offtank will take as well. It's a brilliant design for a tank fight and most other fights are going to be a bit simpler than this one.

    Resources

    Usage of rage is an important consideration for the Prot Warrior. A Good Prot warrior will spend extra rage on barriers whenever they have it, and on a lot of fights they rage wasted will be low (but not all). Sitting Rage-Capped is not only a waste of resources, but creates added stress on healers attention and mana because that extra rage could have been spent on damage or shield barriers. Here was my rage generation/wasted numbers for this Butcher Kill:



    You can see that I spent a long period capped on rage, which were periods where I knew I would be taunting soon, and because I was using Unyielding Strikes to capitalize on dps output I was reluctant to spend rage on barriers. It's okay to pool resources before you think you will need them, but you can see there were some 10 second windows where I was capped, and generating wasted rage.

    Rage in Red, Shield Block Coverage was Brown.


    You can see my shield blocks were used whenever I started tanking ( brown ). Blocks were going off right after each "capped" phase. So I must have been saving resources for the taunt.



    Recap

    So, given the way this fight went and new information from our users, delay using ravager until 11seconds when the first Cleaver stack is attempted. Use Shield Block once when I'm offtanking once, spend my extra rage on barriers and if you are digging any deeper, you could probably respond to some of the posts in this thread .


    Advanced
    Using the Pins feature in Warcraftlogs you can actually make it obvious when you took damage from X ability and also see what Buffs you had up before it hit. This is a little more advanced, but I intervened my offtank when we had them go Guardian with a half set of Boomkin gear on, just to give Twins a shot our first time in there on normal. The offtank nearly died and it looks to me like the intervene saved the day.

    The orange line is the HP total of my offtank.
    The Green colored background is when they were affected by intervene.
    The Purple Lines are incoming Heals on the offtank
    The Yellow Line ( when intervene ends ) is where I was hit by a melee hit that probably would have killed the OT.



    Okay, you've covered the guide on how to analyze your logs, and you still want to optimize.

    WHAT TO POST

    Let us know which Boss/Phase you are having trouble with.
    Let us know if you are the actual tank, or if you are posting for your guildmate.
    Post your/their Armory
    Post Logs! Warcraftlogs links to current boss pulls you want analyzed.
    If you forgot to log those butcher pulls you did last night, go into LFR and record yourself. And then upload those logs to Warcraftlogs and give us the link, We can analyze that.

    *changes 1/14/2015*
    - Added link to General Analysis Blog and How-to-Log by Jasyla
    - Added Resources Section
    - Added Basics Section
    *changes 1/15/2015*
    - Added Ravager 12second trick for Butcher
    *changes 1/22/2015*
    - Was pointed out that the screenshots for The Cleaver and The Tenderizer were reversed. Changed this and updated info.

    - Cyclonus
    Last edited by Cyclonus-WOW; 2015-01-22 at 06:37 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Von Bosch View Post
    Warriors are hereos that draw thier super human strength from thier relentless fury and thier unstoppeble willpower to fight on til the end of days.

  2. #2
    Thanks for the post Cyclonus. This will be a great resource to tanks trying to to step up their game outside of the basic theorycrafting found on the major and more common websites. Perhaps a sticky Mr. Mods?

  3. #3
    First of all, you should add a similar guide on how one logs a fight. I think that would make this thread more available for those who want to improve.

    Very well written and I'm looking forward too see a people improve.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Inukvit View Post
    First of all, you should add a similar guide on how one logs a fight. I think that would make this thread more available for those who want to improve.

    Very well written and I'm looking forward too see a people improve.
    Great idea. I'll update this tomorrow. Def looking for feedback.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Von Bosch View Post
    Warriors are hereos that draw thier super human strength from thier relentless fury and thier unstoppeble willpower to fight on til the end of days.

  5. #5
    Amazing guide Cyclonus. This might reduce some clutter in the thread section

    You should change the shield block information to 12 sec recharge though With 6 sec recharge and 6sec duration we activate godmode!

  6. #6
    Hello Cyclonus.
    I'm posting a log from my guild on Butcher HC.
    We're not stuck on this boss but I think both tanks are stressing our healers a lot.
    Anyway, any tips are welcome.
    warcraftlogs.com/reports/WDk3gfp4tXZKyYxA#type=summary
    us.battle.net/wow/pt/character/nemesis/Angryexwife/simple
    Ty.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Sthalker View Post
    Hello Cyclonus.
    I'm posting a log from my guild on Butcher HC.
    We're not stuck on this boss but I think both tanks are stressing our healers a lot.
    Anyway, any tips are welcome.
    warcraftlogs.com/reports/WDk3gfp4tXZKyYxA#type=summary
    us.battle.net/wow/pt/character/nemesis/Angryexwife/simple
    Ty.
    Warrior is my specialty so you'll have to ask someone else for monks.

    But first of all I noticed the overusage of devastate so I immediately thought of unyielding strikes and yup it was in the logs, now this is a dps and survival decrease on single target such as butcher when sudden death would cost you no rage and even do more damage plus it would make your rotation a lot easier without needing to spam heroic strike. I'm not sure about the dps distribution after the buffs but I dont think devastate should be on top, revenge should followed by shield slam.

    I also see that only 3 shield blocks are being used over 4 minutes where the 12 sec recharge tells us you can have roughly 20 shield blocks in total. So there's room for improvement there. Demo shout wasnt used a single time during the encounter with a possible total of 4 that would reduce your total damage taken by quite a lot especially as on butcher you're always taking damage there's always moments where a CD maybe isnt needed but it does help.

    I also saw that there was a death caused by the cleave on melee groups so just keep in mind to not be near them.

    TL;DR:

    1. Dont use unyielding strikes ever unless you're very comfortable with your basic abilitys such as shield block.
    2. You should use as many effective shield blocks as possible.
    3. CD coverage could be better but it's not essential.

  8. #8
    Ty, this feedback will help a lot.
    I'm a hunter, so that's not my tea.
    But can u explain me when shield block or shield barrier?
    I think he's using Shield Barrier too much in all encounters instead of Shield block.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Sthalker View Post
    Ty, this feedback will help a lot.
    I'm a hunter, so that's not my tea.
    But can u explain me when shield block or shield barrier?
    I think he's using Shield Barrier too much in all encounters instead of Shield block.
    Shield barrier is very weak as an absorb itself. It just get even weaker if you compare it to the 30% melee reduction you get while its active. So in a short answer shield block should be used as much as possible. The only time barrier is worth using over block is in case you have incoming unblockable attacks wich can be magic damage, AE damage or just bleeds AND you are not actively tanking anything that hits hard.

    In highmaul the only boss that favors barrier usage is brackenspore on breaths, otherwise block wins on every boss.

  10. #10

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sthalker View Post
    Ty, this feedback will help a lot.
    I'm a hunter, so that's not my tea.
    But can u explain me when shield block or shield barrier?
    I think he's using Shield Barrier too much in all encounters instead of Shield block.
    On Butcher, if shield block is available, you use it over barrier. It should always be the highest priority over shield barrier on all fights, unless you're taking only magic damage, or unblockable attacks at that point in time. It's a 30% physical damage reduction on all blockable attacks for 6 seconds. Barrier is kind of shit a the moment.

    I didn't check your logs, but your tanks should be switching on 2 stacks of pulverize, which is a taunt rotation of 60 seconds. That means: Demoralizing shout is available each time you taunt, and so is ravager (if the talent is chosen) which gives 30% parry for 11 seconds. Even while not tanking, both tanks take damage, and if I'm not mistaken, the cleave damage is also blockable. This makes Shield Block a prio over barrier for the whole fight. When I'm tanking Butcher myself, I like to:

    On pull (if I am pulling) use armor pot + bloodbath + mastery on use trinket + ravager, followed by demo shout as ravager expires, build rage all this time, if I'm going to cap rage I block, but my goal is to have close to rage cap when ravager parry buff expires. I then double block for a 12s block buff and build another 60 rage for a third block (comes off CD as the 12s buff expires). So far this means I've had defensive CD's up for a total of 37 seconds. The next block at this point is not up for another 6 seconds, so I might choose to use a barrier, if I have enough rage to do so, keeping in mind that I want to have 60 rage for Block when it's available, after block you've reached 49 seconds, which means you can fit in 1 more block before other tank taunts. After this you have 1 pot left to use defensively if you wish, and on use trinket to use defensively if needed, if he has the trinket (I would also recommend only using your pot and trinket if you're actually tanking not only because you're taking more damage, but also because you'll be getting revenge procs, meaning the attack power benefits are also more useful). Can also rotate shield wall in every 2 taunts (the trinket is also 2 mins, so you can alternate trinket and shield wall).

    While not tanking, shield block is still effective, so still use it. May want to ask for an external if you get a tad too much cleaver damage.
    Last edited by Tekagi; 2015-01-14 at 07:27 PM.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Sthalker View Post
    Hello Cyclonus.
    I'm posting a log from my guild on Butcher HC.
    We're not stuck on this boss but I think both tanks are stressing our healers a lot.
    Anyway, any tips are welcome.
    warcraftlogs.com/reports/WDk3gfp4tXZKyYxA#type=summary
    us.battle.net/wow/pt/character/nemesis/Angryexwife/simple
    Ty.
    Shield Block - Use this over Barrier. Only Shield Barrier when you're not tanking or Block is already up and you're going to cap rage. In 5.4 this sort of style was fine, but now in 6.0+ Block is the go-to, barrier as you probably noticed doesn't do much.
    Tenderizer Debuff - The Warrior went to 3 stacks here, the monk was late taunting.
    The Cleaver Debuff - Monk went to 4 stacks, Warrior 3. Would have to be terrible RNG for this to not be their fault. I covered this in the original post, you can use Ravager as an avoidance CD to help with this.
    Elusive Brew Uptime - This was pretty low, and I can see they were using it while they were offtanking, which is okay as long as they have a big stack ready for when they take over tanking. Just need to generate/consume charges of this better.
    Draenic Armor Potions - Tanks are slacking on this, none used on the kill at all.
    Healthstone - Start tracking your Resolve ( weakaura/tmw addon ) and use Healing Tonics instead. This one healed for 66k which means it was used with next to no resolve. Take some damage first if you're going to use, and then use a tonic, it'll heal 200k hp.
    RL TIP: PW:Barrier and Smoke Bomb - Healers are doing a ton of lifting here, ( i want to steal them ), but you could have them use Smoke bomb and PW:Barrier to reduce damage on the groups soaking cleave stacks. Line up Major CD's ( tranq, HTT, etc ) right after bounding cleave and reduction CD's for the regular stacking cleave.

    Like the other posters said, use CD's more. Demo, Shield Wall, Last Stand etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tekagi View Post
    Great stuff
    I think this is great feedback. The usage of Block after Ravager and armor pot expires sounds like it might be a reduction in damage overall instead of doing the usual 18s block window on pull, but would have to be tested before I'd recommend delaying block.
    Last edited by Cyclonus-WOW; 2015-01-15 at 02:27 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Von Bosch View Post
    Warriors are hereos that draw thier super human strength from thier relentless fury and thier unstoppeble willpower to fight on til the end of days.

  13. #13
    Overall, very good guide, well done! One minor thing you should change is "You can also see that Block coverage was good ( large blocks, means shield block charges used back to back ) and ravager was used in conjunction while I was the active tank.". This is not correct, ideally you want to use ravager during your shield block downtime while you are the active tank, not stack it with shield block.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclonus-WOW View Post
    I think this is great feedback. The usage of Block after Ravager and armor pot expires sounds like it might be a reduction in damage overall instead of doing the usual 18s block window on pull, but would have to be tested before I'd recommend delaying block.
    A better option is probably to do 2 shield blocks, then ravager, then another 2 shield blocks (or 1 block, then demo shout to get it regenning its cd faster too...). That way the ravager still gets into your pot duration and you will get out more shield blocks over the fight duration. Only time this would be bad is when the fight duration is exactly long enough that delaying the first ravager by 12seconds loses you out on an entire extra cast in the last 12seconds of the fight.

    At a quick check, doing that would be:
    12sec of block (2 casts, 1charge back as block drops off),
    10sec ravager,
    6sec block (1cast, 1 charge back 2 sec into the block duration),
    8sec demo shout (1charge of block back exactly as demo shout ends),
    6sec block (1cast, 6sec cd left on next block).

    Which is a total of 42seconds of chained cds, while keeping ravager in your potion window.
    Last edited by willowywicca; 2015-01-15 at 03:22 AM.

  14. #14
    Interesting. I use ravager right away to keep my Cleaver stacks down. How do your Cleaver stacks look doing that strat?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Von Bosch View Post
    Warriors are hereos that draw thier super human strength from thier relentless fury and thier unstoppeble willpower to fight on til the end of days.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclonus-WOW View Post
    Interesting. I use ravager right away to keep my Cleaver stacks down. How do your Cleaver stacks look doing that strat?
    I don't tank the first Cleavers since my offtank is a prot paladin and his dps was making him pull aggro easily at the pull either way. So I can't speak from personal experience as such.. however a quick check of our logs is showing me that the first cast of The Cleaver only comes after 12-13seconds into the fight (on Mythic.. presumably the same on others too then). So actually what I said is a perfect match for that too then..

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by willowywicca View Post
    I don't tank the first Cleavers since my offtank is a prot paladin and his dps was making him pull aggro easily at the pull either way. So I can't speak from personal experience as such.. however a quick check of our logs is showing me that the first cast of The Cleaver only comes after 12-13seconds into the fight (on Mythic.. presumably the same on others too then). So actually what I said is a perfect match for that too then..
    Awesome. Ravager at 12 seconds then
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    Quote Originally Posted by Von Bosch View Post
    Warriors are hereos that draw thier super human strength from thier relentless fury and thier unstoppeble willpower to fight on til the end of days.

  17. #17
    So speaking of butcher we killed it the other night on mythic for our first time and I'm rather dissapointed with the dps I managed to push seeing as I did even more dps on heroic before the massive buffs.

    M Butcher here I did 26.4k and ranked pretty low so I know there's room for improvement, I even went with crit enchants and BA weapon for this boss just to push dps.

    H Butcher 27.2k pre buffs with full mastery and bleeding hollow on wep.

    Now the biggest reason I see is the heavy usage of execute in the H kill and I couldnt do that on M because of the heavy incoming damage. The kill timer obviously is 1min longer wich lower dps quite a lot. The second trinket/potion use could be delayed to line up with BB and ravager so I guess that's also something to keep in mind.

    Other than that, is dps on butcher so dependant on spamming execute at the end hoping for massive crits? And is it really worth using crit enchants over mastery? Give detailed explanations please.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Dexyn-eu View Post
    So speaking of butcher we killed it the other night on mythic for our first time and I'm rather dissapointed with the dps I managed to push seeing as I did even more dps on heroic before the massive buffs.

    M Butcher here I did 26.4k and ranked pretty low so I know there's room for improvement, I even went with crit enchants and BA weapon for this boss just to push dps.

    H Butcher 27.2k pre buffs with full mastery and bleeding hollow on wep.

    Now the biggest reason I see is the heavy usage of execute in the H kill and I couldnt do that on M because of the heavy incoming damage. The kill timer obviously is 1min longer wich lower dps quite a lot. The second trinket/potion use could be delayed to line up with BB and ravager so I guess that's also something to keep in mind.

    Other than that, is dps on butcher so dependant on spamming execute at the end hoping for massive crits? And is it really worth using crit enchants over mastery? Give detailed explanations please.
    Comparing you to the top parse for Prot Warriors ( Manager ) on Mythic Butcher right now shows some interesting stats.

    Damage Done by Source:
    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...,4&fight=40,19

    Manager used Unyielding Strikes. Which when parsing for Single target dps is the top damage done.
    You both had a very similar number of Revenge/Shield Slams, Managers hitting for more.
    Manager did execute a few times.

    I supposed Manager might have been a bit irresponsible, but it shows that they took less damage, 20% less uptime on The Cleaver stacks, even considering they 15 stacks of Cleave / 30 Gushing Woundss that you didn't. I'm sure they're using some sort of different strat here. They had the tank stacked with others for the Frenzy phase or something.

    They used Mark of the Thunder Lord, which is more crit/parry and potentially more revenge damage ( though you two lined that up ).

    You should have also used your mastery trinket a second time. Line it up with the lust/draenic pot obv.

    I don't think you did that bad, and Manager has 8 ilvl on you. Which would explain why everything they did hit harder. You could favor the Crit build like they did and you'd probably be in the top few percent. I checked and the trinkets he has on now, Bottle and Pol's, and confirmed these are what were used on that fight, his had leech which is in his healing log.
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...nager/advanced

    I ran your gear through sims between the talents on a Patchwerk fight and it looks like you're already nailing it for your gear.
    Last edited by Cyclonus-WOW; 2015-01-19 at 07:49 PM. Reason: wordcraft
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    Quote Originally Posted by Von Bosch View Post
    Warriors are hereos that draw thier super human strength from thier relentless fury and thier unstoppeble willpower to fight on til the end of days.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclonus-WOW View Post
    I ran your gear through sims between the talents on a Patchwerk fight and it looks like you're already nailing it for your gear.
    Just curious, how many stacks of US are you dumping at in that sim?

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by booi View Post
    Just curious, how many stacks of US are you dumping at in that sim?
    Using the default APL. So i'm seeing this line:
    actions.prot+=/heroic_strike,if=buff.ultimatum.up|(talent.unyielding_strikes.enabled&buff.unyielding_stri kes.stack>=6)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Von Bosch View Post
    Warriors are hereos that draw thier super human strength from thier relentless fury and thier unstoppeble willpower to fight on til the end of days.

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