WW Monk PvP: *new* 4 set bonus

[SnorlaxJeng]

@Totaltotemic

I'm saying it is not bad compared to the pathetic 4p bonus we have now. But surely it IS pathetic that this is the best they could come up with. Sure you can stay in your own dream world Totaltotemic. But this doesn't change the fact that this changes WILL DO NOTHING AT ALL to pull WW monk up in representation. It's something doesn't cut it, its like telling your boss you tried hard enough, spend expenses and only got the customer's business card instead of signing a deal.

@Norbeard

Even if using 1 stack of TeB allowed the 10 stack effect to refresh back to 20s, it is in all sense a bad game design. And that is viewing it from an optimistic point of view. Defensive should never be tied into CDs unless you're a healer, it is one step forward 2 step back in the case of DPS. Remember back when the day Treant form for druids had -50% move speed? This is basically like that. Sure it is a buff, by why the hell can't they tie it to somewhere else... Expel hard, Lvl 30 Talents, Fist of Fury (bad still but a tier better than TeB), ToK (after reflect), Fortifying Brew, Nimble Brew. I'll take 20% reduction any time but not at the cost of having to blow my CDs. Sure it is not hard getting 10 stacks of TeB, that's if you can stay on a target constantly, which sadly is not the case for WW monk as of now.

[Terahertz]

Yes, buffing our defense in PvP fits right into the definition of slap in the face.

Aside from that: Do we know how this buff actually works? It seems to be seperate from the TeB buff since it has different duration. Might this be a stackable buff that gets renewed every TeB usage and with added stacks?

cheers

I don't know. You people aren't even reading posts it seems. I explained why it's a slap in the face, jesus christ.

It works exactly as it says it does; each stack of TeB used gives you a 2% damage reduction, capping at 10 stacks. So when you use 10 stacks of TeB to do damage, you get a 20% damage reduction as well for 20 seconds. It really isn't that hard to understand.

[Deleted]

I don't know. You people aren't even reading posts it seems. I explained why it's a slap in the face, jesus christ.

It works exactly as it says it does; each stack of TeB used gives you a 2% damage reduction, capping at 10 stacks. So when you use 10 stacks of TeB to do damage, you get a 20% damage reduction as well for 20 seconds. It really isn't that hard to understand.

Yes you explained why, I just think you´re talking nonsense. But I suspect this won´t get us anywhere so let´s drop that ball. As to how the dmg reduction will work: How do you know that it works as you say and not as I suggested it will? I don´t think stacks will be added either, but how come you seem to be sure about it? Anyways we´ll have to see how everything plays out once 6.1 hit regular realms for a few weeks and I´ll postbone my opinion until then. Have a good day sir.

cheers

[SnorlaxJeng]

Just tested it on PTR it is just as advertised, popping it at 10 stacks gives you the buff called "Fortitude of Xuen" Xuen Icon giving 20% dmg reduction, popping TeB again refreshes the buff to the amount of stacks that was consumed so if you have 20% up and consume a 6 stack you will be 12% for 20s. Never understood why they haven't changed TeB to have a 20s CD... 5s CD is stupid cause there is no reason for you to pop it any earlier than that. Hurricane strike still sucks even with the 25% buff, TeB10 + on use PvP trinket, + Procs only average for around 70k dmg at 641 base PvP iLvl. FoF still does way more around 90k. And this is considering I pop it only when I have Tiger Strike procs up. But yeah good luck waiting for that 6% proc chance window since we don't even last long enough.

[Deleted]

Just tested it on PTR it is just as advertised, popping it at 10 stacks gives you the buff called "Fortitude of Xuen" Xuen Icon giving 20% dmg reduction, popping TeB again refreshes the buff to the amount of stacks that was consumed so if you have 20% up and consume a 6 stack you will be 12% for 20s. Never understood why they haven't changed TeB to have a 20s CD... 5s CD is stupid cause there is no reason for you to pop it any earlier than that. Hurricane strike still sucks even with the 25% buff, TeB10 + on use PvP trinket, + Procs only average for around 70k dmg at 641 base PvP iLvl. FoF still does way more around 90k. And this is considering I pop it only when I have Tiger Strike procs up. But yeah good luck waiting for that 6% proc chance window since we don't even last long enough.

Sad to hear, but as expected I guess.

[Totaltotemic]

I'm saying it is not bad compared to the pathetic 4p bonus we have now. But surely it IS pathetic that this is the best they could come up with. Sure you can stay in your own dream world Totaltotemic. But this doesn't change the fact that this changes WILL DO NOTHING AT ALL to pull WW monk up in representation.

I'm not the one living in a dream world here. There is no set bonus in the entire game that has the kind of impact you want a set bonus to have because it would be picked up and used in the entire rest of the game if it was any better than that. You're just whining that a single set bonus won't make WW good, but the answer isn't that the set bonus needs to single-handedly carry WW into the top 100. What you should be talking about is other changes, not constantly wishlisting for a set bonus that would break the game if people could access it outside of PvP.

Some of the suggestions I've seen like making the set bonus a passive 20% damage reduction are an absolute joke. That won't fly and you know it. Why is the entire conversation of WW in PvP centered around set bonuses when no one has set bonuses that have as enormous of an impact WW needs to get to being good? The fact that they won't be worthless now should be enough on the set bonus issue, move on and talk about something they will actually change instead of harping on something they will never do.

[Emerya]

What you should be talking about is other changes, not constantly wishlisting for a set bonus that would break the game if people could access it outside of PvP.

For what it's worth, they shouldn't work outside of PVP anyway. I don't know why they even put the slightest effort into trying to "balance" them for PVE. Just apply the WW 2pc treatment to every bonus and don't make them work if you're not in PVP combat. They've already said it doesn't matter if people abuse them for PVE world bosses and such through PVP combat - the instanced PVE is what matters anyway.

[Totaltotemic]

For what it's worth, they shouldn't work outside of PVP anyway. I don't know why they even put the slightest effort into trying to "balance" them for PVE. Just apply the WW 2pc treatment to every bonus and don't make them work if you're not in PVP combat. They've already said it doesn't matter if people abuse them for PVE world bosses and such through PVP combat - the instanced PVE is what matters anyway.

Yeah, and if that's the way it was set up it would be perfectly fine to argue that all PvP balance should just be done in set bonuses, but then we get into the same territory that they refuse to go into which is balancing abilities differently in PvP and PvE. If we assume that they're not going to exclusively balance for PvP without regard to PvE, then we have to find things that can be changed that won't affect PvE at all.

Things like:

Touch of Karma 20 yards baseline (I still don't get why a defensive ability requires being in melee range to use)

Paralysis up to 6 seconds (4 seconds at a 20 yard range is a joke, takes half the duration of it to get in range of a healer, use the GCD, and go back to the target. Cyclone is 6 seconds and has no CD, so Paralysis should obviously be 6 seconds trading being instant for the CD)

Touch of Death CD reduced to 20 seconds if it fails to kill the target when used on a player (already has player-only functionality, and losing the only execute for 3.5 minutes if an immunity or Cheat Death happens is just stupid)

Leg Sweep cannot be Dodged (seriously the 20% chance to just not get stunned that every Agi class has is stupid, the only stun in the game that can be dodged)

Fix Healing Elixirs to actually heal 15% of health (FFS it's what it says on the tooltip)

Transcendence: Transfer should clear all snares and roots (it's another cooldown, but opens up some offensive options for Transcendance that still eats 2 GCDs to break out of a root, could also be immune to snares and roots for 2 or 3 seconds but that might be a bit much)

Sparring should come back in some form, maybe that could be the 4p bonus if it had the spell deflect part on it too.


These are all things that have almost zero impact on PvE, don't require spells to work differently in PvP than PvE (except for ones that already do), don't require glyphs, and don't require set bonuses. Those would be good changes, not a set bonus that gives you a pony and a golden goose at the same time.

[Mcsauce]

i completely agree and posted a similar thread the other day with changes i though were absolutely needed that in no way effected PvE damage.

karma back to 100% baseline (i know new 4 set but should be baseline)
FoF 5 yd range baseline
ToD no chi cost Baseline
Karma 20 yd range Baseline
roll/FSK remove snares Baseline
small boost to healing surge...small boost like 10%-20%
small damage reduction via jab (similar to ret/enh 15% reduced damage taken every jab)-could even be a glpyh like ret/enh
above would make up for losing sparing which i didnt realize how needed it was till it was gone

i think that would help make WW more sturdy to the point of being viable again.
obviously there are other issues but all classes have issues these are just glaringly obvious fixes that need to happen.