6.1 Mage changes

[oraz4000]

Comedy show

Frost gets a ~2.5% nerf in PVE for no reason at all and arcane gets left untouched?

[ssviolett]

Gotta love blizzards logic. I guess we should be expecting RoP nerfs prior to 6.2.

/facedesk

As usual Blizzard logic is beyond understanding.

From my last Imperator log MI did 12-13% of total DPS. So 15% nerf is about 1,9-2% dps nerf.

Honestly, I don't get it. Are mages too good to be nerfed? Arcane probably is (though there is actually only one boss where Arcane can shine), but Frost from middle of Simcraft?

Also, tbh I can imagine using RoP on Imperator where you move constantly ...

[Methusula]

You guys do realize this isn't the ptr patch with the big changes, right? Next patch is the one with all the changes. I don't think the sky is falling quite yet.

[Deleted]

Mages are in a very good spot at the moment.
On almost every fight we are king in mititagting things and do still very good dps, so i dont understand the /cry about mages are in a bad spot.

Butcher Mythic: You can cheese the complete Bounding Cleav mechanic with Ginvis Solosoaking and do insane DPS
Tectus Mythic: Fire is absolute King of the Hill here
Brackenspore Mythic: You can reduce your infesting spores damage with Iceblock, Ginvis by a huge amount and still do good/very good dps
Koragh Mythic: Ginvis if Expel Magic: Frost is cast on you to prevent the Orb from spawning, Iceblock critical Shadowdebuffs and still good DPS
Margok Mythic: You can cheese almost every mechanic with Evanesce/blink/ginvis. You can mitigate Novadamage completely in Phase 1 only by unsing Evanesce every nova. You are imune to branded damage if you are on branded duty. We have the most options in DPS on this fight, if your Raid needs AOE for small adds go fire, if you need good dps on big adds and you are not on branded duty go arcane and frost shines in the Second intermission with TV and is overall very good on big adds (that are the most important thing on this boss).
On the Nova in Phase 2 and 3 you can Blink -> Evanesce -> Blink to mitigate complete damage and still soak every second Branded 7th stack with Ginvis (stand near the Tank with Ginvis in phase 2).
in Phase 4 you can soak the last hit of the Glimps with Evanesce, ginvis the explosion of Gaze or mitigate the 2nd big AOE almost completely with ginvis.

[oraz4000]

Mages are in a very good spot at the moment.
On almost every fight we are king in mititagting things and do still very good dps, so i dont understand the /cry about mages are in a bad spot.

Butcher Mythic: You can cheese the complete Bounding Cleav mechanic with Ginvis Solosoaking and do insane DPS
Tectus Mythic: Fire is absolute King of the Hill here
Brackenspore Mythic: You can reduce your infesting spores damage with Iceblock, Ginvis by a huge amount and still do good/very good dps
Koragh Mythic: Ginvis if Expel Magic: Frost is cast on you to prevent the Orb from spawning, Iceblock critical Shadowdebuffs and still good DPS
Margok Mythic: You can cheese almost every mechanic with Evanesce/blink/ginvis. You can mitigate Novadamage completely in Phase 1 only by unsing Evanesce every nova. You are imune to branded damage if you are on branded duty. We have the most options in DPS on this fight, if your Raid needs AOE for small adds go fire, if you need good dps on big adds and you are not on branded duty go arcane and frost shines in the Second intermission with TV and is overall very good on big adds (that are the most important thing on this boss).
On the Nova in Phase 2 and 3 you can Blink -> Evanesce -> Blink to mitigate complete damage and still soak every second Branded 7th stack with Ginvis (stand near the Tank with Ginvis in phase 2).
in Phase 4 you can soak the last hit of the Glimps with Evanesce, ginvis the explosion of Gaze or mitigate the 2nd big AOE almost completely with ginvis.

What does that have to do with the topic at hand? a pointless nerf is a pointless nerf.

[Methusula]

I stand corrected. The official notes apparently are the earth shaking changes they were talking about. Fantastic...

[Deleted]

Complete horse hockey they nerf MI for Frost, if your concerned RoP isn't keepin pace, then buff that pile of steaming kaka so people who hate it aren't forced to use it.

Your suggestion is kind of irrelevant because it will have a similiar nerf to the balance of that tree. You get the same annoying result.
I don't believe they did the mirror image nerf because they wanted to nerf PVE Frost. Maybe they wanted to change the balance of that tree or reduce burst in pvp because of the Deepfreeze change.

- - - Updated - - -

I stand corrected. The official notes apparently are the earth shaking changes they were talking about. Fantastic...

Didn't get my hopes up for mechanical improvements so wasn't dissapointed by the amount of class changes. I've been their before....too often.

Am disapointed about no actual new content like 5.1 offered. It's all just tweaks and small additions to what we already have, that's very dissapointing. Blackrock Foundry is not part of 6.1. That is still part of the 6.0 content like all previous expansions had more raids. Else thats some desceptive pr-management because they knew they created not enough content, was effective though.

[Deleted]

What does that have to do with the topic at hand? a pointless nerf is a pointless nerf.

the tears about "reroll Warlock mimimi" maybe?

Frost get a nerf with the MI change, by about 1,5% so no big deal. they dont want to force a spec to use only one talent and the easy way was to nerf MI to bring them align with the other two.

[Deleted]

https://twitter.com/warcraft/status/558792008714559488
It's just the first round of changes (that's what 'initial' means). More to come. Ppl overreactiving like it's the final list.

[Alvito]

Looks like we're being forced into RoP now. Cool, that's just what I wanted...

All 3 specs using the same piece of crap talent. If one choice is the only real option for all 3 groups something is wrong. Blizzard shitting the bed once again on balance.

[Deleted]

https://twitter.com/warcraft/status/558792008714559488
It's just the first round of changes (that's what 'initial' means). More to come. Ppl overreactiving like it's the final list.

Meh I always find the people who are saying others are overeacting or crying more annoying, their insulting fellow posters. It's been just the 2e page and it feels like their have been just as many who call out cryers as those who are too negative.

BTW I hope your right that their initial. I'm mainly hoping for some actual content.

[Deleted]

Why is IF boring compared to MI? 1 button every 2 minutes vs 0 buttons ever. All the talents are shit.

Yeah but to be fair it's not like the entire spec (or class really) overall is boring, like say arms warriors. MI vs RoP vs IF doesn't impact that either way.

I mean, im certainly not enthusiastic about this, but really the only fight that really changes for us is Butcher; in BRF it doesn't look like there are many fights where you can get that kind of RoP uptime anyway.

[mrgreenthump]

Changed the title of this thread to suit the discussion more.

-----

Another trash patch for mages. Why the fuk warlocks have so much love and mages do not. They tweak like every fuking talent for warlock. Fuk this.

Please be more constructive when posting.

[Recom]

Sure Warlocks are the best class ever EU wolrd universe, that's why it's been at the bottom of the DPS meter since WoD. They needed the change just like mage needed a change with 6.0, but now we're are 95% fine, no need to take the pitchfork just yet.

I think you guys are overreacting to the MI nerf, it will be worse than RoP in single target stand still fights which it should be. It will be worse than RoP or IF for aoe which it should be. It may be on par with IF in single target we'll have to see the sims.
BUT it's still going to be far superior on bosses with a "burst" phase, be it with or without a damage buff.

All in all, different talent for different scenarios. That's how they wanted talents to be, if you don't like it it's your goddamn problem.

[Nitros14]

I'm down with frost being the best in raids as soon as fire and arcane become great pvp specs.

Until then...

[Wilderness]

Meh I always find the people who are saying others are overeacting or crying more annoying, their insulting fellow posters. It's been just the 2e page and it feels like their have been just as many who call out cryers as those who are too negative.

BTW I hope your right that their initial. I'm mainly hoping for some actual content.

But a lot of it is too negative, and without reason. Its still early in the PTR, so nothing is final yet, and even if it was applied tomorrow its a small nerf. Sure, its a bit annoying, and I don't really think Frost needed a nerf (but again, this is early PTR so we don't know everything), but its hardly worth getting upset about. A 15% nerf to an ability that does 12-15% of your damage is not game-breaking.

[Deleted]

But a lot of it is too negative, and without reason. Its still early in the PTR, so nothing is final yet, and even if it was applied tomorrow its a small nerf. Sure, its a bit annoying, and I don't really think Frost needed a nerf (but again, this is early PTR so we don't know everything), but its hardly worth getting upset about. A 15% nerf to an ability that does 12-15% of your damage is not game-breaking.

Except for about 2 i didn't find it too negative. You need to give negative feedback if you don't like it and do it every stage else it's too late.

On the Blizzard forums people are complaining mainly due to pvp, it seems pvp is a horrible experience even if frostmage is in one good comp for arena. So they see mage nerf and Hunter buffs the most hated class for mages . In pve it's probably split between the situation of frost compared to fire and arcane in upcoming raid and the balance of that tree.

Making an argument like A 15% nerf to an ability that does 12-15% of your damage is not game-breaking. Results in me saying okey lets nerf RoP by 20% it's not going to be game-breaking :P

To me anyone who makes a simplistic post talking about the crying is just insulting everyone who gives negative feedback and feels like their not contributing to the discussion. Because I value negative criticism more than people saying everything is fine, I can handle overdramatasized posts and just filter out the essence. I'm okay with people being insulting to blizzard, they arn't joining in on the discussion so no harm. Besides they are higher in the hierchy. I don't really like it when people are making it too personal and be negative to developers.

PS: think ill but out now of this part of the discussion, think i've about said all I could do so see if others can give more input. Mainly expecting a quantifyable result in the current points that have been raised.

[Deleted]

Wouldnt if be cool if Blizzard uses players on a test realm to test things in the game before they go live? I could see that be a future thing.

[Wilderness]

Except for about 2 i didn't find it too negative. You need to give negative feedback if you don't like it and do it every stage else it's too late.

There's negative feedback, and then there's just spewing rhetoric. A lot of the negativity was just things like "now MI is 100% useless" "now I'm forced into RoP" "time to reroll warlock" etc etc. That's not feedback, that's overreaction, pure and simple.

Raising questions as to why would you nerf frost mages, who aren't standing head and shoulders above the pack? That's a valid question, but also not one that will be answered until we see where they want balance to end up towards the end of the PTR cycle. Its fine to say "I don't like this change, my frost mage doesn't seem all that strong as it is". But "MI is now 100% useless"? That's going over the top.

[Deleted]

Arcane
Presence of Mind can now be applied to Polymorph spells.
Fire
Fireball now replaces Frostfire Bolt for Fire Mages.
Frost
Deep Freeze's stun effect now always breaks on damage from Ice Lance, but no longer has a chance to break from other damage sources.
Talents
Blast Wave (Fire) now has a 3-second cooldown.
Ice Nova (Frost) now has a 3-second cooldown.
Supernova (Arcane) now has a 3-second cooldown.
Glyphs
Glyph of Frostfire Bolt has been replaced with Glyph of Ignite. Glyph of Ignite causes Ignite to also reduce the target’s movement speed by 40%.
Armor Sets
PvP 2-piece set bonus for Frost Mages has been redesigned. Cone of Cold now leaves behind a patch of ice on the target area slowing any enemies caught within it by 50% for 6 seconds.
PvP 4-piece set bonus for Frost Mages has been redesigned to increase Frostbolt damage by 30% against unsnared targets, and increases Frostbolt damage by 50% against snared targets.

Wow the Deep Freeze change is really really strong for PvP. A 6 second stun now allowing for 2 guaranteed Ice Nova Shatter combos with a Shatter Ice Lance at the end... That's insane burst..