Thread: jaina build

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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    Yeah, this conversation is really supporting the, "Just a great pubstomper" theory.
    And pubstompers are bad game design.
    "It's 2013 and I still view the internet on a 560x192 resolution monitor!"

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by NoiseTank13 View Post
    And pubstompers are bad game design.
    They're not. If you suck at the game, there should be something that shoves that fact into your face all the time.

  3. #23
    The Insane apepi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brazorf View Post
    oh joy and here I was entering this thread looking to see a discussion on Jaina's build
    Well...you know...Thrall kissed Jaina in a tree so....
    Time...line? Time isn't made out of lines. It is made out of circles. That is why clocks are round. ~ Caboose

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Lesane View Post
    They're not. If you suck at the game, there should be something that shoves that fact into your face all the time.
    There's already something that gets rubbed in your face for sucking- the respawn/defeat screen.

    Having a Hero(s) whose only strength is punishing new/low skill players, and has greatly reduced impact against opponents of better skill, does not strike me as a Hero that is sustainable in the game. Zeratul is her melee equivalent, but even he has better team presence.

    People who argue for pubstomper characters just strike me as people who don't want challenges/be challenged in game.

    Also to remain on topic, I like talenting Frostbolt and getting WE for constant damage.
    "It's 2013 and I still view the internet on a 560x192 resolution monitor!"

  5. #25
    To the topic:

    Jaina build that I run:
    1: Deep Chill - helps You to get the target or to escape.
    4: Envenom - there's no need to explain.
    7: Frostbitten - highly increases the damage.
    10: Both ulties are good, however Ring of Frost needs synergy with Your team. I mostly choose Water Elemental, though.
    13: Sprint - You need that escape, really.
    16: Depends on Your opponents. I choose mostly between Northern Exposure to increase even more my burst or Numbing Blast to improve my ganging.
    20: Blink - You are immortal now ;-)


    About the cryout on Thrall:
    This hero is only strong if there's no CC around, so mostly staying behind and waiting for opponents to take their CDs up. But yeah, if he gets into the fight and is played well he is like a train. Can easly solo anyone.
    Imho this character does not require nerf, yet.


    I am a menace to my own destiny.

  6. #26
    Pit Lord Anium's Avatar
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    Ah the Lux of HotS, BRACE YOURSELF!

  7. #27
    I just fought a Nova/Zeratul in unranked so I figured wtf why not try Iceblock..holy shit it worked really well. Saved me everytime I used it.
    Hi Sephurik

  8. #28
    When i first played jaina i was using a squishy ranged build so i could stay as far back as possible from fights, but her skill cd's were always a problem for me. So yesterday i tried a new build.

    Winters Reach + Frost shards so i could stay back in fights and hit up to 2 heroes applying chill. Ice lance also works well because if they are already chilled by her other abilites and you hit 2 players its almost ready to be used again.

    Her ultimate is a toss up for me atm, ive only used this build in 2 human matches so far so havent played with the ulti enough.

    Icy veins is awesome because of the frost shards and ice lance talents making her frost bolt pretty much spammable and her other abilites not far behind, really good for aoe in team fights.

    Ice Barrier is also a must have, With icy veins popped and hitting multiple targets you may still die but ur gonna surprise players with how long u stay up and how close you get to killing them, really helps when players are grouped up.

    And iono about the last talent, i took the mount one in my last match just because =p

  9. #29
    The Lightbringer Proskill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anium View Post
    Ah the Lux of HotS, BRACE YOURSELF!
    lux > jaina anytime

  10. #30
    If your entire team is focusing Thrall and chaining stuns on him and kiting him then YES he dies, that does not in any way excuse him from being OP, which he clearly is.

    Even worse than his damage is is ridiculous self healing.
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  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    If your entire team is focusing Thrall and chaining stuns on him and kiting him then YES he dies, that does not in any way excuse him from being OP, which he clearly is.

    Even worse than his damage is is ridiculous self healing.
    If he was clearly OP, he would probably be played a lot more in tournaments and such. He's a strong pick, but so are both Zeratul and Kerrigan. He can only self heal well if he can get to a target. A warrior such as Arthas or Stitches peeling him can keep him shut down pretty hard.

    Edit: I have yet to find a build with Jaina where I don't feel too squishy where I'd rather be playing Falstad or Valla. That being said, I have seen coordinated teams peel like monsters for her and her blow everything up.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valedus View Post
    If he was clearly OP, he would probably be played a lot more in tournaments and such. He's a strong pick, but so are both Zeratul and Kerrigan. He can only self heal well if he can get to a target. A warrior such as Arthas or Stitches peeling him can keep him shut down pretty hard.

    Edit: I have yet to find a build with Jaina where I don't feel too squishy where I'd rather be playing Falstad or Valla. That being said, I have seen coordinated teams peel like monsters for her and her blow everything up.
    Peel teams are super amounts of fun. Protect The Hammer is a ridiculous comp that Jaina slots REALLY well into - we run with Muradin, Chen, BWing, Jaina and Hammer. Our two damage dealers throw out unrelenting poke from the backlines while slowly rolling forwards in an unstoppable advance and they almost impossible to get to
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  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Valedus View Post
    If he was clearly OP, he would probably be played a lot more in tournaments and such. He's a strong pick, but so are both Zeratul and Kerrigan. He can only self heal well if he can get to a target. A warrior such as Arthas or Stitches peeling him can keep him shut down pretty hard.
    Zeratul is borderline OP himself. Kerrigan is a decent hero but nothing horrifying.

    I can't speak of tournaments but last night every team we vs'ed had a Thrall. He ain't in the free rotation either.
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  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    If your entire team is focusing Thrall and chaining stuns on him and kiting him then YES he dies, that does not in any way excuse him from being OP, which he clearly is.

    Even worse than his damage is is ridiculous self healing.
    If he was OP he would be a 100% pick/ban in every competetive game like Stitches and Tychus are, but that's not the case. Thrall is powerful, but not OP. The thing is that if you know how to deal with Thrall you would never consider him OP, but if you are playing against people who don't know how to deal with him he can get out of hand. However, I think the solution just lies in people L2Ping rather than nerfing Thrall. If you nerf Thrall he would become a second Nova.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    Zeratul is borderline OP himself. Kerrigan is a decent hero but nothing horrifying.

    I can't speak of tournaments but last night every team we vs'ed had a Thrall. He ain't in the free rotation either.
    Kerrigan is more horrifying than Thrall, she's just a lot harder to play. I believe Kerrigan had a 100% win rate in the most recent Kings of the Storm tournament.

    Melee assassins are pretty much Kerrigan = Zeratul > Thrall > Illidan in terms of strength. Illidan and Kerrigan just require a lot more baby sitting whereas Zeratul and Thrall are decent enough by themselves. That doesn't mean they are stronger than Kerrigan though.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Lesane View Post
    If he was OP he would be a 100% pick/ban in every competetive game like Stitches and Tychus are, but that's not the case. Thrall is powerful, but not OP. The thing is that if you know how to deal with Thrall you would never consider him OP, but if you are playing against people who don't know how to deal with him he can get out of hand. However, I think the solution just lies in people L2Ping rather than nerfing Thrall. If you nerf Thrall he would become a second Nova.
    No I disagree, the existence of a possible counter under the right circumstances does not excuse an OP hero. He needs either less burst or less self healing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lesane View Post
    Kerrigan is more horrifying than Thrall, she's just a lot harder to play. I believe Kerrigan had a 100% win rate in the most recent Kings of the Storm tournament.

    Melee assassins are pretty much Kerrigan = Zeratul > Thrall > Illidan in terms of strength. Illidan and Kerrigan just require a lot more baby sitting whereas Zeratul and Thrall are decent enough by themselves. That doesn't mean they are stronger than Kerrigan though.
    I have never had a problem with Kerrigan.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    The big difference with Kerrigan is that she has a stun and a pull, both baseline. She can really ruin peoples' day beyond simply "doing damage".
    If she could rip your face off during that stun/pull combo she'd be a problem, but IMO it's little more than a nuisance. That is if we're talking 1v1, obviously she has strengths in the right comp.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
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  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    No I disagree, the existence of a possible counter under the right circumstances does not excuse an OP hero. He needs either less burst or less self healing.
    It's not a possible counter or circumstance dependent. You just need to make sure he doesn't get in melee range or stun him if he does, which is really not that impossible to do since he has no gap closer like the other melee assassins. He's not OP because he has a very obvious vulnerability, it's just that most people suck too much to exploit it, just like with Nova. He is not like Nazeebo who demands a stun/knockback to be dealt with or else gets out of hand. Roots and slows are super effective on Thrall, much less so on other heroes. It's pretty much impossible to have a team comp that has nothing to stop Thrall, while with a hero like Nazeebo that's very much a possibility. If you lower his healing or damage he'd be useless. Thrall is also the easiest melee assassin to play in the game.

    Thrall is definitely strong and good, but not OP. He's only OP against bad players, but that shouldn't mean that he needs a nerf. It just means that those players should L2P. If you don't do anything to deal with Thrall, you deserve to be melted in 2 seconds by his Windfury.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    I have never had a problem with Kerrigan.
    Kerrigan is much harder to play than Thrall, that's why. A decent Thrall will be more scary than a decent Kerrigan, but a good Kerrigan is more scary than a good Thrall. CC is strong in this game, and Thrall only has a single target root that's not that easy to land all the time and his ult.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    If she could rip your face off during that stun/pull combo she'd be a problem, but IMO it's little more than a nuisance. That is if we're talking 1v1, obviously she has strengths in the right comp.
    She kinda does if she has the correct spec. You're gonna eat two of those combo's in succession and most likely Envenom if she even needs that to finish you off. It's pretty much like a vanilla WoW rogue stunlock. If she lands the first stun, you're dead unless you get help.

  17. #37
    Thrall is so OP, I don't really care what random competitive people are banning or picking. Its like when people said Arthas is so op and banned, guess what they didn't change him and I'm now rank 26 (still haven't played much ranked) and haven't seen a SINGLE Arthas. Not one. Thrall 1v1s anyone, 2v1s most people late game, solos camps easily, and has incredibly strong ults. Ult Stun 2-3 people, bolt in and 1shot a squishy and proceed to wreck whatever is close while your team engages. He can burst people in 2 seconds and go from 30% to full in that 2 seconds (literally watched one do it at lvl 19 yesterday).

    OT: Jaina is good if she is well played, but a decent or bad Jaina is a huge detriment to the team. She can turn fights around well but she is easily countered if you are even slightly out of position.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gandrake View Post
    I like how when people complain about getting killed by kill shot which can have a 43 yard range, no resource cost, and can be used again if it doesn't kill and everyone says WELL, HEY, YOU KNOW, IT IS CALLED KILL SHOT
    but when a warrior does it, clearly the ability's name is "useless wet noodle piece of shit strike with an exorbitant rage cost that should do the same damage as MS"

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Hand Banana View Post
    Thrall is so OP, I don't really care what random competitive people are banning or picking. Its like when people said Arthas is so op and banned, guess what they didn't change him and I'm now rank 26 (still haven't played much ranked) and haven't seen a SINGLE Arthas. Not one. Thrall 1v1s anyone, 2v1s most people late game, solos camps easily, and has incredibly strong ults. Ult Stun 2-3 people, bolt in and 1shot a squishy and proceed to wreck whatever is close while your team engages. He can burst people in 2 seconds and go from 30% to full in that 2 seconds (literally watched one do it at lvl 19 yesterday).

    OT: Jaina is good if she is well played, but a decent or bad Jaina is a huge detriment to the team. She can turn fights around well but she is easily countered if you are even slightly out of position.
    Yeah, rank 26 and never saw an Arthas? Calling bullshit on that one. Arthas lost resurgence so he did get changed somewhat. Just because Thrall 1v1's most people doesn't mean he's OP. Illidan and Chen did the same before. Illidan can still 1v1 Thrall if he times his Evasion with WF. If you get 2v1'd by Thrall you're doing it wrong. Soloing camps easily, not that different from Illidan or a plethora of other heroes there. His ults are strong yes, but it's not like he has the only strong ults in the game and they're far from the most OP ults. He also can't go from 30% to full in 2 seconds without external heals. Unless he went for the 5 target CL build and hit 5 targets with his CL, coupled with on-use D, and the 2 WF talents at 13 and 16, which means he has to give up Battle Momentum and WF CD reduction. So basically, that's only possible if there's 5 targets to CL, and he gets into melee range and gets a full WF off and activates his D manually which requires a specific build that makes him lose damage.

    Also, I'd put more trust in the competetive scene than random picks at Hero League. You can't pick what you don't own, and some people just refuse to play anything other than their beloved Nova or Abathur. Hero League is hardly representative of what is good and what isn't.

    Thrall just excels at unorganized games. That doesn't make him OP.



    Good night, sweet warchief.

  19. #39
    Immortal Nikkaszal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lesane View Post
    Yeah, rank 26 and never saw an Arthas? Calling bullshit on that one. Arthas lost resurgence so he did get changed somewhat. Just because Thrall 1v1's most people doesn't mean he's OP. Illidan and Chen did the same before. Illidan can still 1v1 Thrall if he times his Evasion with WF. If you get 2v1'd by Thrall you're doing it wrong. Soloing camps easily, not that different from Illidan or a plethora of other heroes there. His ults are strong yes, but it's not like he has the only strong ults in the game and they're far from the most OP ults. He also can't go from 30% to full in 2 seconds without external heals. Unless he went for the 5 target CL build and hit 5 targets with his CL, coupled with on-use D, and the 2 WF talents at 13 and 16, which means he has to give up Battle Momentum and WF CD reduction. So basically, that's only possible if there's 5 targets to CL, and he gets into melee range and gets a full WF off and activates his D manually which requires a specific build that makes him lose damage.

    Also, I'd put more trust in the competetive scene than random picks at Hero League. You can't pick what you don't own, and some people just refuse to play anything other than their beloved Nova or Abathur. Hero League is hardly representative of what is good and what isn't.

    Thrall just excels at unorganized games. That doesn't make him OP.



    Good night, sweet warchief.
    Winrate with Thrall in Quick Match is unbelievably high

    Winrate in Ranked is more reasonable seeing as people know, like, how to play, and how to counterpick him.

    He's a pubstomper.
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  20. #40
    Because you can drop 13212 mines with a single Q. Kappa

    Oh wait. You drop 3 or 5 mines and by the time they arm, you're dead. Pls.
    My nickname is "LDEV", not "idev". (both font clarification and ez bait)

    yall im smh @ ur simplified english

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