jaina build

[Hand Banana]

Yeah, rank 26 and never saw an Arthas? Calling bullshit on that one. Arthas lost resurgence so he did get changed somewhat. Just because Thrall 1v1's most people doesn't mean he's OP. Illidan and Chen did the same before. Illidan can still 1v1 Thrall if he times his Evasion with WF. If you get 2v1'd by Thrall you're doing it wrong. Soloing camps easily, not that different from Illidan or a plethora of other heroes there. His ults are strong yes, but it's not like he has the only strong ults in the game and they're far from the most OP ults. He also can't go from 30% to full in 2 seconds without external heals. Unless he went for the 5 target CL build and hit 5 targets with his CL, coupled with on-use D, and the 2 WF talents at 13 and 16, which means he has to give up Battle Momentum and WF CD reduction. So basically, that's only possible if there's 5 targets to CL, and he gets into melee range and gets a full WF off and activates his D manually which requires a specific build that makes him lose damage.

Also, I'd put more trust in the competetive scene than random picks at Hero League. You can't pick what you don't own, and some people just refuse to play anything other than their beloved Nova or Abathur. Hero League is hardly representative of what is good and what isn't.

Thrall just excels at unorganized games. That doesn't make him OP.

I wish I was joking lol. Arthas is just not that good compared to stitches or chen. Stitches is generally #1 pick or close to it, other team warrior is often ETC, Chen, or no warrior at all. Seen quite a few Anub's as well. I actually see many many games of no warriors if the other team gets stitches first.

I'm just not seeing how thrall is not OP. All of these magical outplay scenarios against him when all he has to do is into melee range with nearly anything to win. I put stock into Hero League because thats what I am playing. I am not playing "pro" stuff even though its still in beta, I am playing hero league, generally running with 3-4 people in a group. Thrall is just a 1 man army, he excels at too much. Amazing sustain, solos camps better than any other assassin, is unbeatable in 1v1 (never seen an illy even come close, could be bad illys though I suppose. Again, if you outplay thrall magically as if he braindead), has really strong ults, and nuts burst. If the entire game were just a big 5v5 zergfest with all ranged heroes then yea thrall might be bad, but its not.

Sorry I'm kinda throwing this off of Jaina, I just don't get when I play ranked matches then come on here and people say the polar opposite of whats actually happening in ranked gameplay. Maybe if I get to rank 10 or better it might change, who knows.

Edit: You know what, I think I did see an Arthas or 2. Not memorable enough I guess but I have seen at least one I'm pretty sure now.

[Nikkaszal]

Are you missing the plethora of posts saying "CC or displace when he starts Windfury, or kite"? Thrall only 1vX's people who have no idea how to play against a Thrall. Warriors get all up in his grill and go "ho ho I'm a Warrior I can tank this just watch me HO JESUS FUCK WHAT THE SHIT" because they don't know that they should not try and duel a Thrall.

Thrall only sustains while attacking. Poke him from range, CC when he gets into melee then burst him down. Counterpick with Illidan (Evasion > Windfury), Muradin (Haymaker him out of the fight), Stitches (Hook pick -> Gorge = dead Thrall), Hammer (with knockback mines and mine field), Lili (Blinding Wind > Windfury. In a HILARIOUS way).

But above all, don't be bad. Dodge his wolf. Don't try to 1v1 him in melee. Stay with your team.

[Lesane]

Because you can drop 13212 mines with a single Q. Kappa

Oh wait. You drop 3 or 5 mines and by the time they arm, you're dead. Pls.

Yes, because obviously as Sgt. Hammer you should drive into melee range of Thrall and try to facetank him while you auto-attack instead of fortifying a position with mines. The clip is just funny, but it's a perfect example of how Sgt. Hammer should be played and it shows that Thrall is not unbeatable 1v1. Nearly all ranged characters can kite Thrall and prevent him from getting into melee. You don't need to 1v1, fleeing is good as well. At least you can run from Thrall, if you have to 1v1 an Illidan there's no escape once he's in Q range.

I wish I was joking lol. Arthas is just not that good compared to stitches or chen. Stitches is generally #1 pick or close to it, other team warrior is often ETC, Chen, or no warrior at all. Seen quite a few Anub's as well. I actually see many many games of no warriors if the other team gets stitches first.

I'm just not seeing how thrall is not OP. All of these magical outplay scenarios against him when all he has to do is into melee range with nearly anything to win. I put stock into Hero League because thats what I am playing. I am not playing "pro" stuff even though its still in beta, I am playing hero league, generally running with 3-4 people in a group. Thrall is just a 1 man army, he excels at too much. Amazing sustain, solos camps better than any other assassin, is unbeatable in 1v1 (never seen an illy even come close, could be bad illys though I suppose. Again, if you outplay thrall magically as if he braindead), has really strong ults, and nuts burst. If the entire game were just a big 5v5 zergfest with all ranged heroes then yea thrall might be bad, but its not.

Sorry I'm kinda throwing this off of Jaina, I just don't get when I play ranked matches then come on here and people say the polar opposite of whats actually happening in ranked gameplay. Maybe if I get to rank 10 or better it might change, who knows.

Edit: You know what, I think I did see an Arthas or 2. Not memorable enough I guess but I have seen at least one I'm pretty sure now.

Arthas is definitely not as good as Stitches but he's miles better than Chen. Chen is trash since they nerfed his ult. He just has nice damage to punish ranged assassins, but you don't get that until 16 while Arthas gets crazy damage at 4, and all of Chen's survivability is interruptible now. He will never be able to main tank as well as any other warrior besides Sonya and Diablo. You must've gotten a shitload of weird matches if you made it to 26 and never saw Arthas or even had a bunch of matches without any warrior. I've never seen a match so far where there's no warrior or support on either team.

There are no magical outplay scenarios. Thrall wrecks people if he can get in melee, and can sustain himself pretty well. The keywords are "if he can get in melee", which is rather easy to avoid if you know what you're doing. He has no gap closer and his wolf is not that hard to dodge. Even if you fail to keep him out of melee, hard CC and/or burst will still put a quick end to him. Much like Illidan, his survivability comes from actively attacking. Prevent him from doing that, and it's an easy kill. He also doesn't solo camps as well as Illidan, unless you want to burn through all your mana or go for a crappy non-Envenom build. The only thing is that he can solo the boss camp at a decent pace late game. Illidan is the prime 1v1 hero, it's just that most Illidans are terrible because he's much harder to play than Thrall. He's not unbeatable 1v1 unless you're just gonna try to tank his damage and out-trade him.

Thrall is a double edged sword, if you get into the situation where he shines, you will really shine. If you get into other situations where he doesn't shine, he's invisible and a non-factor. Thrall is fine the way he is, he's strong but not OP. If he gets nerfed he'll be useless and he'll just join the bench of melee assassins who are good but just aren't good enough like Illidan and will never see play outside some trump card setups anymore. Kerrigan and Zeratul are better already.

[Deleted]

I buff blizzard as much as I can, best damage spell, and increased range CoC. I run with water elemental instead of ring of frost. It's the build that works best for me, things die :P

[Mormolyce]

Arthas is a good solid tank sure (plays quite smoothly too), but personally I consider him weaker than Stitches (shudder) or Muradin or a really good Chen.

You just need to make sure he doesn't get in melee range or stun him if he does, which is really not that impossible to do

Um, it absolutely is if you are either melee or not a hero with a stun. That is NOT balance.

Winrate with Thrall in Quick Match is unbelievably high

Winrate in Ranked is more reasonable seeing as people know, like, how to play, and how to counterpick him.

He's a pubstomper.

If everything that isn't picked for every Ranked match is a pubstomper then yeah great call him that. It is not a lack of skill though, you cannot counterpick Thrall in a non-Ranked game, he simply eats half the Heroes in the game alive and there is nothing they can do about it regardless of their skill. They don't have the tools to stop him and he is insanely powerful if he isn't shut down. That is bad balance.

Are you missing the plethora of posts saying "CC or displace when he starts Windfury, or kite"? Thrall only 1vX's people who have no idea how to play against a Thrall.

You DO realise not every hero can CC, displace or kite right? I guess you're just a noob if you don't counterpick Thrall every match, no matter what. Bye bye every melee hero in the game.

[Lesane]

Um, it absolutely is if you are either melee or not a hero with a stun. That is NOT balance.

It's a team game. Yeah, if you are 5 melee without stuns Thrall will destroy you. Chances of that happening are almost non-existent though.

If everything that isn't picked for every Ranked match is a pubstomper then yeah great call him that. It is not a lack of skill though, you cannot counterpick Thrall in a non-Ranked game, he simply eats half the Heroes in the game alive and there is nothing they can do about it regardless of their skill. They don't have the tools to stop him and he is insanely powerful if he isn't shut down. That is bad balance.

He's a pub stomper because he is insanely strong against people that have no idea how to deal with him, just like Nova (before the last patches). When I first started playing I always saw people crying before the game even started if the enemy team had a Nova about how OP she is and what not. Once I climbed in MMR that sentiment quickly faded. It's the same with Thrall. Just played a game, only our Valla complained about Thrall which has more to do with him missing his RoV's and getting deleted afterwards. The higher the MMR, the less people you see crying about Thrall and he doesn't really dominate as much there anymore. Thrall is a balanced hero, so was Nova before the Thrall patch.

Also, the game shouldn't be balanced around non-ranked games. Even then, most people are just stupid and try to duel Thrall. Guess what, he excels there, so don't do it. You don't have to fight anyone 1v1 unless you are caught.

You DO realise not every hero can CC, displace or kite right? I guess you're just a noob if you don't counterpick Thrall every match, no matter what. Bye bye every melee hero in the game.

It's a 5v5 game. Even if you can't stun or kite him, someone else on your team probably can. Just like with WoW, this game isn't balanced around 1v1.

[Nikkaszal]

Arthas is a good solid tank sure (plays quite smoothly too), but personally I consider him weaker than Stitches (shudder) or Muradin or a really good Chen.



Um, it absolutely is if you are either melee or not a hero with a stun. That is NOT balance.



If everything that isn't picked for every Ranked match is a pubstomper then yeah great call him that. It is not a lack of skill though, you cannot counterpick Thrall in a non-Ranked game, he simply eats half the Heroes in the game alive and there is nothing they can do about it regardless of their skill. They don't have the tools to stop him and he is insanely powerful if he isn't shut down. That is bad balance.



You DO realise not every hero can CC, displace or kite right? I guess you're just a noob if you don't counterpick Thrall every match, no matter what. Bye bye every melee hero in the game.

If you're on your own and you come across Thrall, run away. Simple.

But the game isn't balanced around 1v1. It's about teamfights. And if your team has no CC whatsoever to deal with it, you would have been proper fucked against MANY heroes.

Don't forget that Thrall doesn't truly shine until 13/17 when he gets double stacks and triple hit. At that point, if you're running without your team you're just begging to die anyway

[Mormolyce]

How about this?

New Hero: Thesaurus Rex
Q ability: Instantly kill any hero whose name begins with a consonant. 6 second cooldown.
Passive trait: Any damage taken from a hero whose name begins with a vowel results in instant death.

Yay, balanced. It's a team game, L2P noob!

If you're on your own and you come across Thrall, run away. Simple.

"His counter is, you run away from him and hope someone else kills him".

[Nikkaszal]

How about this?

New Hero: Thesaurus Rex
Q ability: Instantly kill any hero whose name begins with a consonant. 6 second cooldown.
Passive trait: Any damage taken from a hero whose name begins with a vowel results in instant death.

Yay, balanced. It's a team game, L2P noob!



"His counter is, you run away from him and hope someone else kills him".

Yeah just like any squishy who spots a Zera/Nova in cloak, or an Illidan, near them when they're on their own is going to GET THE FUCK OUT OF THERE posthaste. Because they are very VERY strong 1v1 but get blown up when CC'd and bursted.

Like... Thrall...

[Nerraw]

Anub'arak has a win rate about equal to Thrall's, I don't hear anyone crying about him.

Very few people actually know how to play him. When I don't play him myself, I see him maybe once every 40 or 50 matches.

[Lesane]

How about this?

New Hero: Thesaurus Rex
Q ability: Instantly kill any hero whose name begins with a consonant. 6 second cooldown.
Passive trait: Any damage taken from a hero whose name begins with a vowel results in instant death.

Yay, balanced. It's a team game, L2P noob!



"His counter is, you run away from him and hope someone else kills him".

I know you're being sarcastic but that's hardly comparable. Thrall being strong against people 1v1 doesn't mean he insta kills you and him being weak vs CC/kiting doesn't mean he insta dies vs that.

The thing is people calling for nerfs on Thrall, who is balanced at high level play, will eventually ruin this game. If any hero that is on the strong side in pub games has to get nerfed, there will never be new heroes that are viable for high level play and that severely limits how fun the game can be. One of the biggest weaknesses of HotS right now is that there are very few heroes and of those available, a big amount just aren't viable outside of low MMR quick matches.

[Deleted]

Okay. This has gone from Jaina's build to discussing anything BUT Jaina's build. So it is time to retire this thread.