MMORPG with challenging non-endgame PvE content?

[Enitzu]

FATE grinding got nerfed a while back. Dungeons are pretty much the way to go now. Good while it lasted I suppose.

Also depends on what you mean by "challenging", just because it's soloable doesn't mean it's "not challenging". Most of it is easy enough, but some of the solo instance stuff can wipe you if you aren't careful.

You are right challenge is not dependant on group or solo. However, even the solo instance stuff is not challenging. So long as you follow the basic healer > ranged > melee kill order it is pretty simple throughout the game. Don't stand in aoe's and win.

Dungeons are the way to go for leveling. But with 30+ min Qs you spend most of your time as a dps fate grinding. Usually by the time I finish 1-2 dungeons I'm ready to log from boredom. It's just not a very immersive game. If they wanted to make a game like this where you level every class on 1 character then they should have put more repeatable quests for every level range besides the leve's or just take the cap off of leve's completely. Or hell this is a Japanesse MMO, make mob grinding more worth it. I would even be ok with that, but as it stands now it's a huge waste of time outside of an 8 man group doing chains for 2k xp per kill

[SodiumChloride]

You are right challenge is not dependant on group or solo. However, even the solo instance stuff is not challenging. So long as you follow the basic healer > ranged > melee kill order it is pretty simple throughout the game. Don't stand in aoe's and win.

Dungeons are the way to go for leveling. But with 30+ min Qs you spend most of your time as a dps fate grinding. Usually by the time I finish 1-2 dungeons I'm ready to log from boredom. It's just not a very immersive game. If they wanted to make a game like this where you level every class on 1 character then they should have put more repeatable quests for every level range besides the leve's or just take the cap off of leve's completely. Or hell this is a Japanesse MMO, make mob grinding more worth it. I would even be ok with that, but as it stands now it's a huge waste of time outside of an 8 man group doing chains for 2k xp per kill

Still you have to use your head and can't just face roll though them while watching Netflix.

Kill order varies, sometimes you got to leave specific mobs alone and let the NPCs tank those while you take out the others - however you can over do it though and the NPCs die with you shortly after.

There is a limit to how difficult they can make them. Games should be challenging but never frustrating. Overdo the difficulty and players will just give up and play something else - this isn't the NES/SNES era anymore where as a kid you are lucky to get a game per month or a rental a week, optical discs are way cheaper to manufacture and let's not forget online delivery, players aren't going to put up with BS like in the past (where they are stuck with a game).

[May90]

I am kind of in the same boat here. I haven't been able to find any game lately that pushes me to even think about what I am doing. Most of them you can level one handed watching tv hitting the same 2-3 buttons over and over. It's pretty much gotten to the point where I am playing multiple games because I get bored with them so quickly.
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If you happen to find a good one let me know however. I am looking to find a game to sink time into. Or if people with the same mindset want to drop some time into P99 msg me and I may think about it

So far haven't found such MMOs, but there are some single player RPGs that can be quite challenging on the hardest settings. Dragon Age series is very hard on Nightmare if you've never played similar Bioware games (like Baldur's Gate) before, especially the latest game, Inquisition, which is quite similar to MMOs in many aspects and is very hard if you do all the content at the level you are supposed to - and all 3 games will take a huge time to complete, especially on a completionist walkthrough. From older games, user-made content for Neverwinter Nights is so huge, it will probably take a few years to play just through 5% of the best ones; very addicting game and very challenging to if you play the right modules, if you can overlook the graphics and the camera that is a total mess. Although the challenge there comes more from a minimax build knowledge rather than from the combat itself which is fairly simple.

I think I understand why MMOs today are not made to have challenging leveling. The problem is group vs solo balance. Unless you use a system like in Diablo where mobs scale with the size of a group, two people leveling together will always have a much easier time than one. If you balance the game such that it is fairly challenging for 2 people playing together, then solo will be too hard for most people and many people will give up on the game. If you balance it so a solo player can do the content, then it will be incredibly easy for a group play, and, to not discourage solo players, you have to make it a cakewalk for everyone, so no one gets discriminated. Single player games are different, they may have many difficulties, including brutal ones, since the amount of players in your party is, well, always one. Again, you can use a system similar to Guild Wars 2, where world bosses become stronger if there is more players in the vicinity - but that system would be very hard to balance, and I wouldn't say GW2 did it well, large groups still have a much easier time than small ones.

So, I think, for the time being I will just immerse myself into single player RPGs again (I've yet to play through Witcher series, for example) on hardest difficulties or with mods making games more difficult, if they are not difficult enough in themselves.

[Badl1fe]

Age of Conan. It's still a great looking game. The main reason people don't like it is the VERY different combat system. It's a combo system on every melee class. Casters are normal cast bar type. Healing is pretty boring. All healers have 3 heals and that's it. But they aren't targeted heals, they are all AoE. Leveling can be quite brutal. And if you play on the PVP server expect to be murdered repeatedly. Not by high levels mind you, just by anyone. The end game stuff is pretty cool. Raids are odd. They are stand there and fight for the most part, but each one has an odd mechanic. The only reason I don't play anymore is the dwindling player base. Most of the guild I know of back in the day are all gone. Replaced by non english speaking guilds. Thats not a bad thing, but I only speak english so there isn't much community for me.

[Acidbaron]

Albion Online matches your description, there are a few mmo's coming up that are around that.

Do take note that this type of game requires just as much effort as raiding weekly if not more to get anywhere as it's build around guild structure, alliances and so on for a large part and sitting by idle won't get you into any of the fun events, solo unless you're a person with great insight into markets you won't achieve much.

Personally i know a large guild that played albion during beta, i passed on it and waiting till crowfall comes out to get my feet wet again in the whole MMO frenzy. Seeing it offers fun combat due to in guild testimonies of alpha players (only bought up to beta access to prevent burn out) and constant contest with scenarios offering new rules forcing guilds to adapt to win the new world and not just always relying on the same choke points and tactics. Even allowing you to just focus on crafting with one character since you get like 3 slots.

Do find people often asking for something different generally don't ask long in sandbox games, depends on your background experience, network and personal stamina.

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So, I think, for the time being I will just immerse myself into single player RPGs again (I've yet to play through Witcher series, for example) on hardest difficulties or with mods making games more difficult, if they are not difficult enough in themselves.

Quite a few RPG's out that will last you some time besides the witcher 3, which you won't finish fast unless you rush it but isn't really that difficult due to power creep you have. Divinity: Original Sin, Pillars of Eternity, Wasteland 2, shadowrun etc, quite a few in that genre came out the last years.

If you are looking for challenging co-op, vermintide would be my current recommendation also on sale currently.

[Darsithis]

Don't necro old threads. Also, please use the Find/Suggest a Game sticky in this forum.