1. #1

    Quality of Life changes for WW

    Post any ideas.

    -Clones inherent your RSK/TP buffs/debuffs. It blows that the first thing you need to do after clones, is spend 2 GCD's on single target when all you really want to do is FoF/ChiEx. This is just dumb

    -FoF being interrupted by knockbacks

    -Clones FoFing and not moving while having the glyph. No damage whatsoever if the adds/cleave targets move slightly

    -Tigers Lust being on GCD. If you're too close for a roll but just the right distance for a Tigers Lust, its highly annoying to have that

    -Having to spend a full minute building Chi prior to boss encounter to maximize DPS. We should start with full chi at the start of fights if this was intended.

    -SCK/RJW Chi generation. It was okay when we had loads of energy regen, but now it just seems like theres better options because of how chi starved you can get from using them.

  2. #2
    Generally agree, but the biggest QoL improvement would be:

    make an alternative SEF mode, when it just puts a clone on any enemy in range. This would help a lot when there are multiple mobs of the same priority and you wouldn't need to check which one you actually put a clone on (ye, ye I know and use the addons and auras, but it's still not convenient, when there are 8+ mobs stacked at the same time).

    TO be more precise - if there are no clones up, when you click the button it puts a clone on an enemy, which is not your target and which doesn't have the clone up. So once your clone dies, you can do the same. However, if your target dies - you will still need to watch which enemy you are attacking (i.e. so that it is not the mob which you have put your clone on). This is an ALTERNATIVE mode of SEF, so that you choose which one you want to use (through Glyph for example).

    This will improve our AoE a bit, as in the same scenario Balance Druid just hits Starfall button and pummels everything within 20y range.

  3. #3
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by exshinra View Post
    Post any ideas.

    -Clones inherent your RSK/TP buffs/debuffs. It blows that the first thing you need to do after clones, is spend 2 GCD's on single target when all you really want to do is FoF/ChiEx. This is just dumb
    Dont really have a problem with that tbh, sure it will make our live a bit easier but its not really something they should put their dev time into imo.

    Quote Originally Posted by exshinra View Post
    -FoF being interrupted by knockbacks
    This can actually be pretty annoying, but if you plan it right you can use FoF around knockbacks.

    Quote Originally Posted by exshinra View Post
    -Clones FoFing and not moving while having the glyph. No damage whatsoever if the adds/cleave targets move slightly
    This! Its really really annoying! Specially since a lot of bosses move around. If we have glyph than clones that are our "copies" should be able to do same.

    Quote Originally Posted by exshinra View Post
    -Tigers Lust being on GCD. If you're too close for a roll but just the right distance for a Tigers Lust, its highly annoying to have that
    I guess, not really, maybe, FSC > Tigers lust in those cases.

    Quote Originally Posted by exshinra View Post
    -Having to spend a full minute building Chi prior to boss encounter to maximize DPS. We should start with full chi at the start of fights if this was intended.
    Dear god this!!!! It so so so annoying! Adding that your tanks do short countdown so you cant even preplan to be full chi and your opener needs to change because of it. Only thing i am scared is that instead of letting us be full chi before pull they will just take pooling chi prepul all together.

    Quote Originally Posted by exshinra View Post
    -SCK/RJW Chi generation. It was okay when we had loads of energy regen, but now it just seems like theres better options because of how chi starved you can get from using them.
    Not really, RJW/SCK paired with clones provide OP cleave as it is. There is no need to add more chi to it.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by exshinra View Post
    -Having to spend a full minute building Chi prior to boss encounter to maximize DPS. We should start with full chi at the start of fights if this was intended.
    Absolutely. There is always someone going afk for 5 minutes before a boss pull aswell.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Basilmoyh View Post
    Absolutely. There is always someone going afk for 5 minutes before a boss pull aswell.
    If anything, they could double chi's decaying time so you only have to do 2.5 (3) expel harms to get full chi before pull.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by exshinra View Post
    Post any ideas.

    -Clones inherent your RSK/TP buffs/debuffs.

    -FoF being interrupted by knockbacks

    -Clones FoFing and not moving while having the glyph.

    -Tigers Lust being on GCD.

    -Having to spend a full minute building Chi prior to boss encounter to maximize DPS.

    -SCK/RJW Chi generation. .
    Inheriting FoF glyph for clones, TP inheritance would both be nice, and I don't have a problem with them - except they also go in the same direction of indirectly buffing aoe. We don't have a problem there, what we need is competitive damage on the non-niche fights. If we stayed identical on our aoe + cleave, we would be fine if we didn't flat out get dicked on whenever a single target fight came up.

    The FoF knockback thing, and lust on the gcd are both annoying, would definitely be nice.

    omfg pre-chi, yes - should just work like soul shards, regen slowly to max when ooc when specced WW.

    SCK/RJW - I really think a lot of balancing could be done by reducing jab costs, and leaving the aoe abilities where they are. Our aoe isn't op right now, but it isn't terrible either (on sustained fights). I would rather be jack-of-all-trades, middle of the pack no matter what rather than have a cleave-centric niche - we have seen what happens when you are specialised for that.


    Quote Originally Posted by Viggen2012 View Post
    Generally agree, but the biggest QoL improvement would be:

    make an alternative SEF mode, when it just puts a clone on any enemy in range. This would help a lot when there are multiple mobs of the same priority and you wouldn't need to check which one you actually put a clone on (ye, ye I know and use the addons and auras, but it's still not convenient, when there are 8+ mobs stacked at the same time).
    ...
    This will improve our AoE a bit, as in the same scenario Balance Druid just hits Starfall button and pummels everything within 20y range.
    I don't agree - from my point of view, the reason we got nerfed into the ground was our damage floor being too high - It doesn't take much skill to keep SEF up, and suddenly you topped meters at the start of WoD no matter how bad you were.

    If you look at damage by class over the nerf-bonanza this is shown as soon as you look at the breakdowns for low% parses. We were miles ahead at low-skill, but at the competitive edge, things were a lot less dramatic.

    I would prefer changes that raise the skill ceiling, and preferably keep the damage floor at minimum skill low - or closer to other classes, so that the same thing doesn't happen.
    Last edited by rijn dael; 2015-02-09 at 11:24 PM.

  7. #7
    High Overlord Laeahndria's Avatar
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    Warcraft Devs finally responded to one of my tweets...

    "No, this is intended. Floating Butterfly only benefits yourself"

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by rijn dael View Post
    I don't agree - from my point of view, the reason we got nerfed into the ground was our damage floor being too high - It doesn't take much skill to keep SEF up, and suddenly you topped meters at the start of WoD no matter how bad you were.

    If you look at damage by class over the nerf-bonanza this is shown as soon as you look at the breakdowns for low% parses. We were miles ahead at low-skill, but at the competitive edge, things were a lot less dramatic.

    I would prefer changes that raise the skill ceiling, and preferably keep the damage floor at minimum skill low - or closer to other classes, so that the same thing doesn't happen.
    I agree about the skill ceiling, but at this moment, the skill ceiling for WW is kind of high already (there may be 2-3 specs that require higher skill). However, it is NOT easy to keep SEF up, when there are multiple not_so_high HP adds coming. Of course, you can do that on fights like Maidens or Kag'raz, but for example on Furnace or even Operator - it is really hard to reach 100% effectiveness for AoE.

    Another point is that SEF has a cooldown, which means you cannot get your clones up immediately, removing the CD would also help us a bit IMO.

    P.S. If you look at statistics from BRF - there is no difference between the gap on 50% and 90% percentiles, we are somewhere around 80-82, while Balance is 93-95, demolock is 90-92, etc.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Laeahndria View Post
    Warcraft Devs finally responded to one of my tweets...

    "No, this is intended. Floating Butterfly only benefits yourself"
    w00t? that's funny. I hope this guy plays WW one day then.

  9. #9
    FoF is annoying as shit to use, particularly when taking TEB into account. Sometimes you can't time your FoF at the end of your TeB duration because you'll be interrupted/have to move/have to hit another ability during the channel. I just don't think a long, interruptible channel on a melee class is a good idea at all (Particularly when it's your highest DPS ability), and it's pretty ludicrous we have to glyph it to use while moving. Some people might think it adds to the "Skill ceiling" of the class to have to work around the various things that can screw up your FoF timing, but I just find it more mechanically clunky than challenging.
    Last edited by Rixxis; 2015-02-10 at 04:53 PM.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Laeahndria View Post
    Warcraft Devs finally responded to one of my tweets...

    "No, this is intended. Floating Butterfly only benefits yourself"
    I really had to stop myself from just tweeting "Go fuck yourselves", because holy shit they're either intentionally not fixing QoL things for WW(and a LOT of other specs) or just have absolutely no idea what they're talking about. Getting really sick of how the devs have been treating feedback and the concerns of the community lately.

    OT: I agree with all of those, although I hadn't even considered the "aimbot" SEF. RJW/SCK don't really need more Chi generation, but I do agree that ChiEx + RJW feels painfully slow to play with. Like, current Arms level of slow.
    Last edited by Tradu; 2015-02-10 at 04:53 PM.
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  11. #11
    Herald of the Titans Hinalover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkinspiration View Post
    Not really, RJW/SCK paired with clones provide OP cleave as it is. There is no need to add more chi to it.
    The problem with the 1 chi, especially when not specced into RJW, makes the AOE rotation extremely cumbersome on 3 or more targets. It becomes more apparent with Chi Explosion. You spend most of your chi generated keeping RSK's debuff and Tiger Power buff up. You actually don't spend a whole lot of chi for Chi Explosion, which defeats the purpose of the rotation. For a fight like Operator Thogar, where you have a lot of adds, but the fight is mostly a single target fight, you want the CHi Explosion, but not Rushing Jade Wind.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Laeahndria View Post
    Warcraft Devs finally responded to one of my tweets...

    "No, this is intended. Floating Butterfly only benefits yourself"
    Wow. I mean I could understand if it was something technical that prevented it, but being intended? I do not approve.

  13. #13
    High Overlord Koohii's Avatar
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    -FoF being interrupted by knockbacks
    Does Bladestorm suffer from anything like this? I can't recall it does, so why does our hardest hitting ability have to be a channeled spell that can be interrupted, knocked back, can be wasted if not glyphed, (This is mandatory, every fucking boss moves) on a MELEE class. They could just make it like hurricane strikes and redesign HS to something new.

    -Clones FoFing and not moving while having the glyph. No damage whatsoever if the adds/cleave targets move slightly
    Was mentioned from a "not dev" that this was intentional. Really? No really, why in the flying fuck of fucks would this be intentional. It's just a cop out for "We're too lazy to code it in" so middle finger to you all.

    Not to mention how damn fragile the clones are to begin with, or how buggy it is. (I had to go up top on Blackrock and had to make a cancel aura macro so they would stop being stuck on the balcony when I jumped even though everything was dead, they stayed there.)

    -Having to spend a full minute building Chi prior to boss encounter to maximize DPS. We should start with full chi at the start of fights if this was intended.
    I HATE THIS WITH A PASSION! Hate Hate Hate it. Every wipe I have to mash the release button and be the first one to the boss so I can eat quick and start mashing expel. Fuck getting a drink, or a quick piss break or whatever, nope, stuck mashing Expel. A lot of times I don't even get my full bar cause Expel is on CD and the tank is then starting the CD pull, so I'll only have 3-4 chi banked.

    Overall I don't expect much anymore. I've lost all trust with them and this class and I don't see things getting better.

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  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Koohii View Post
    Does Bladestorm suffer from anything like this? I can't recall it does, so why does our hardest hitting ability have to be a channeled spell that can be interrupted, knocked back, can be wasted if not glyphed, (This is mandatory, every fucking boss moves) on a MELEE class. They could just make it like hurricane strikes and redesign HS to something new.
    Bladestorm isn't a channel, it's just a buff that disables everything else from being used(except Shouts), so that's how it avoids being interrupted. No idea how hard it can be to code FoF to only stop channeling if the player manually cancels it.
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  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Viggen2012 View Post
    I agree about the skill ceiling, but at this moment, the skill ceiling for WW is kind of high already (there may be 2-3 specs that require higher skill). However, it is NOT easy to keep SEF up, when there are multiple not_so_high HP adds coming. Of course, you can do that on fights like Maidens or Kag'raz, but for example on Furnace or even Operator - it is really hard to reach 100% effectiveness for AoE.

    Another point is that SEF has a cooldown, which means you cannot get your clones up immediately, removing the CD would also help us a bit IMO.
    I think you are misunderstanding me a bit there - I am not trying to say that WW is too easy to play well, I mean that too much of its damage is baseline, and as you improve at WW, you gain disproportionately smaller amounts of dps benefit compared to other classes. We are undertuned in general, but we also have too much damage tied up in things you can't screw up.

    The SEF cd is fine, prevents a lot of accidents :P - in general I can't understand maintaining SEF as 'hard' though. A weakaura to track stacks, and whether your mouseover has it, and tada, you are an expert. Congrats, you will now do great (or what used to be great dps, and is now mid-pack dps) on every sustained cleave fight, no matter how badly you stuff up the rotation.

    Anyway, this easy-to-hit base damage is what I see as a large motivation behind our nerfs - you see us dominating on medium skill percentiles early on in HM, even though on the competitive percentiles we were not that far ahead, and similar to many others who weren't touched (ret f.e.) at those levels. The first 1-2 nerfs brought that higher level into alignment with the rest of the pack, but they kept nerfing till the bottom level was where they wanted, and that has screwed over the class at a competitive level.

    tl;dr I like challenging rotations, and obviously I like being rewarded for pulling them off. SEF is too easy to use, making it hard to be balanced across the ranges of skill for all players when blizzard seeming won't nerf it or CX.
    Last edited by rijn dael; 2015-02-11 at 12:15 AM.

  16. #16
    roll back some of those single target nerfs

  17. #17
    Deleted
    I'd like to see improvements to the funcionality of SeF. There's not much else that really needs improving.

  18. #18
    and to think WW was one of the most fast paced and exciting specs in SoO and the best DPS Spec ever (imo) with RoRo in ToT xD now its a slow piece of shit where you put it twice the work for half the reward at speeds making arms feel like a god damn racecar its almost like blizzard doesn't want people to play monks, or maybe they just wanna fuck with us ya know? make us super strong for a few weeks then TO THE FUcKING GROUND not to mention the retarded reasoning of (hurr you use da energy gotsta be slow) you know? like if i wanted a slow energy based dps I'd play a feral or a mut rogue I spent a ton of time money and energy power leveling my monk because WW was fast paced and exciting in MoP and now its slow and terrible

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