Crimson Tempest on Iron Maidens?

[Watsono]

Hi guys, first post here.

I was wondering whether or not using CT on Iron Maidens would be a dps increase. I've read that ideally if it's constantly kept up on all 3 targets it'd be an increase, but with bombs being every where and you getting caught out of place, not to mention if you're sent over to the ship, i'm not 100% sure it's worth it. HELP IS APPREICIATED~

[Deleted]

Hi guys, first post here.

I was wondering whether or not using CT on Iron Maidens would be a dps increase. I've read that ideally if it's constantly kept up on all 3 targets it'd be an increase, but with bombs being every where and you getting caught out of place, not to mention if you're sent over to the ship, i'm not 100% sure it's worth it. HELP IS APPREICIATED~

Here you can find the logs of guys who didn't use CT on Iron Maidens:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/ranking...ilities.121411

As you can see, not using CT at all is quite ok.

[Athonel]

Assuming you're running combat? Don't bother with CT. It's a marginal dps increase at best, and that's typically only with a LOT of adds that stay alive for the full duration.

CT won't be worth it for assassination until they make it proc venomous wounds on 3 targets (that will probably not ever happen), and it is only viable for sub as a CP dump when there are lots of adds that will live full duration and you aren't focusing one.

Basically, don't CT unless you're on trash.

[Oggiva]

Use CT if you play subtlety. Don't use it if you play any other spec.

[Deleted]

I was sure keeping CT debuff up on 3 targets was superior - but guess not.

[Deleted]

Sorta on topic ; does ct proc sanguinary vein?

[Oggiva]

CT does proc sanguinary vein.

Sanguinary Vein
Requires Rogue (Subtlety)
Requires level 60
Increases the damage of your Rupture ability by 10% and causes you to deal 20% additional damage to targets afflicted by your Rupture, Garrote, or Crimson Tempest.

[Deleted]

CT will decrease your damage anytime :<

[Jman39]

Hey, I just spent some time wiping on Maidens tonight and came here to see what the Rogue Community was doing as far as Maidens and CT goes. I found this thread, and though slightly old, wanted to discuss the topic based on the review of my logs.

First, I did review the logs in the links above, so certainly Rogues put up excellent numbers without CT.

Second I know I’m not the best Rogue around, that’s why I come here to research and get better!

For Maidens I rolled as a Combat.

I reviewed my logs and found evidence that, on the surface, refutes many of the “CT is a DPS Loss” or “Marginal Gain” statements, and wanted to offer up some of my findings for evaluation and discussion.

(I put together a spread sheet, but formatting it to look right is a bridge too far this late at night).

The Logs indicated CT was actually a DPS gain over Evisc.

On our Fourth attempt the numbers looked like this:

Crimson Tempest:
Casts- 17
Total Damage - 953,500
Damage per cast - 56,088

Eviscerate:
Casts - 39
Total Damage - 1.39 Million
Damage per cast - 35680 We continued to wipe after the 4th attempt, but I transitioned to just using eviscerate.

Mechanics wise, I would only CT when all three Maidens were in range, and I never went to the ship. During ship phase, I transitioned to using Eviscerate only, until the third boss returned. During the 20% burn phase I was single targeting, so I did not use CT. During attempt 4 I averaged just under 37% up time on CT. I would attempt to refresh CT with 3 or less seconds remaining, but likely messed that up more often than not.

Both Evisc and CT cost 35 energy, they both reduce KS and AR on cast. But when all three Maidens are in ranged CT does much better overall damage per cast then Evisc. An added benefit is a Combat Rogue can still contribute DPS, through the CT bleed, when they need to move off target to kite Rapid Fire.

I'd post logs, but I'm a first time user...sorry.

I would certainly be interested in feedback on this analysis.

[Eekmut]

Check the top rogues on Warcraft logs using Combat in this fight. Not a single cast of CT.

[Turisten]

Crimson Tempest:
Casts- 17
Total Damage - 953,500
Damage per cast - 56,088

Eviscerate:
Casts - 39
Total Damage - 1.39 Million
Damage per cast - 35680 We continued to wipe after the 4th attempt, but I transitioned to just using eviscerate.

Did you add the dmg eviscerate does with Blade flurry on 2 other targets? Shouldn't it be 35680 + (( 35680 x 0.35 ) x 2 ) = 60656?

Edit: thought BF gave 30% to other targets. It was 35%

[Sesleri]

Combat should never be using CT.

[Shibukai]

Despite none of the top rogues using CT, it does not mean it's not better.
But we are talking about a simple enough scenario here:
- Combat rogue
- Always hits 3 targets
- Using Evis or CT for the full duration
- both reduce CD duration in the same way, consume the same energy/cpts and have the same returns


5 cpt Eviscerate damage = initial damage + initial damage multistrikes

5 cpt CT Damage = initial damage + initial damage multistrikes
+ bleed for an additional 240% of the initial damage over 12 sec
+ increases the damage targets take from your poisons by 30% for 6 sec + 30% extra damage for poison multistrike ticks for 6 sec

Thinking about it, it's not that obvious. I'll have to sim this later.

EDIT: CT bleed ticks do not proc multistrikes

[dinth]

I can't remember, does CT proc poisons?

[Jman39]

Turisten,
Thanks! That's were my figures went wrong. Additionally I did not take into account instant poison procs that would add 0-7,648 Damage per eviscerate when all three targets are up. Thanks again for helping me work through this.

[Larinnian]

As Combat, I don't think I've touched my Crimson tempest button in a loooong time unless I was on trash.
So nah. Don't do it.

[xmod2]

Do ticks of CT dynamically increase alongside bandit's guile? At what point would it be worth using a CT instead of an evic at a lower BG level to prevent capping?

For example, CT at low insight and 9 combo points. Push it to med/high and use evic? Seems like the later ticks benefiting from the higher insight level, while an evic would be 100% in the lower insight could help account for why CT numbers are all over the place.

[Rosvall]

Thinking about it, it's not that obvious. I'll have to sim this later.

We did some testing in IRC yesterday. It simmed quite lower. However, AR uptime fell by a lot. So most likely the simcraft engine isn't attributing RB procs for CT. Maybe some for Ruthlessness CP as well.