Thread: AMD questions

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  1. #1

    AMD questions

    Rescently (half an year ago) i bought an AMD FX-8350

    According to this benchmarker http://www.cpubenchmark.net/ it is way ahead many of the intel processors that are a lot more expencive than it.
    One of the reasons of lower price is that it does not have integrated Gpu in it.

    My questions are several:

    1. Am i missing something from not having integrated gpu inside my processor given that i am using a dedicated video card?
    2. Is the price/performance ratio according to the site correct vs intel brands?
    3. if 2 is correct why is everyone preaching towards buying intel processors when the difference of price/performance is so huge?

    Last question is wow related and based on my upgrade since i couldn't afford everything i used the GPU i had from before GTX 650. After the tests offered from the above site of the CPU on the new MB + ram (2x4gb 2400 mhz) it gave me much higher ratings than the site puts for this processor. Site shows 8993 i got between 9500 and 10k based on 4 Ghz and turbo modes at 4.2 and 4.4 ghz.
    I know that the game from MoP to WoD changed a few things about how the engine works. Blizz stated that they are puting more load on the GPU than before and lowering the % of Job for the CPU. Alas i my knowledge is limited to internet researches and i am not sure how much this is true and how it affects the game in reality.

    4. Will i be getting a lot higher Wow performance if i ugprade the Video card asap. Or is the game still heavy CPU dependant and the GPU upgrade will not boost much. Atm i have 100~ fps with my video settings prior to 30 man hc pulls and even thou i am sure it drops during pulls i have no fps isues during fights. But i do have settings far from maxed.

  2. #2
    Deleted
    1. No you aren't, you got dedicated gpu no need for intergrated.

    2. Depends what you are doing with the pc and if its gaming only, then will depend from game to game.

    3. The site you are looking its a benchmark using all cores of a cpu. Which means that an 8core will score higher than a 4core. BUT no game out there uses all those cores. Most use 1-2 cores so having an 8core means nothing. In mmo games that are cpu heavy an intel is far ahead of amd in single thread performance. Ie a top tier amd is still worse than even an i3 in that perspective.
    Sidenote don't compare amd to intel GHz or even intel to intel different generation chips.

    4. If you are happy with your fps then there is no reason to upgrade. A 650 might be a little aged but still has plenty of juice in it. For wow probably aint worth the upgrade unless you want the best fps you can get. If you play other games, shooters/fps then it might worth to upgrade.

  3. #3
    Ty for the responce

    Regarding the cores used. AMD is 4 cores with x2 logical.

    And according to what i am reading about WoW it curently uses all 4 or 8 cores.
    I did the tests in MoP they were recieving equal or close load with the game and higher load again equaly balanced when i was increasing settings in MoP. I bought the CPU and did those tests that i am not sure if they were accurate a few weeks before 6.0


    It still bothers me the site benchmarks CPU using different mechanics measuring their effectiveness across the board with everything it has in it's arsenal.

    Are Intel more game orientated ? Saying that they are better at games means they fall behind in other calculations. But i am also reading how they are better at the rest of the stuff yet the benchmarker that is suposed to rate all kind of tasks should be putting an average score.

    Are AMD then better at something that nobody is using? So that inflates the average processor score. Or is "intel are better" just a brand hype?

    last if not least is there a way to benchmark wow performance on different processors. Like set specific parameters for a benchmark to simulate wow being run. And run the same across different processors to see their score vs each other on wow.
    I am not sure if just running wow on 2 different procesor machines and measuring FPS is that accurate.

    If this is an accurate list : http://www.logicalincrements.com/ then the 8320 standing in the "Superb" category and given the 8350 is 10-ish % better than 8320 according to the cpu benchmark it should be jumping in the "excelent" category along with those i5

    But then again those i5 there 4430 4590 4690 have much lower total score on the cpu benchmark meaning the score of the 8350 is inflated by tasks not needed for WoW
    Last edited by Pyrophobia; 2015-02-16 at 10:31 AM.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Pyrophobia View Post
    Are AMD then better at something that nobody is using? So that inflates the average processor score.
    Basically, yes. Most synthethic benchmarks measure scientific calculation done on all cores. You'll never get that kind of load on home computers unless you're running bitcoin mining 24/7 on CPU.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pyrophobia View Post
    last if not least is there a way to benchmark wow performance on different processors. Like set specific parameters for a benchmark to simulate wow being run. And run the same across different processors to see their score vs each other on wow.

    I found this: http://www.anandtech.com/bench/CPU/62
    That only benchmark built into WoW engine measures time it takes between two flight points while the influence of all other players is disabled. It does not stress CPU in the same way as raiding or busy cities would do.

    Because WoW's multithreading is very asymmetrical purely single thread benchmark is closest approximation of WoW performance across multiple processors you can get, like for example http://www.cpubenchmark.net/singleThread.html or http://www.anandtech.com/bench/CPU/344
    Last edited by fixx; 2015-02-16 at 10:31 AM.

  5. #5
    Won't that single thread performance then have to be multiplied by 8 for AMD 8350 and by 4 for 4 core processors

    Otherwise the 8350 stands below Intel Celeron G1630 @ 2.80GH and i doubt WoW will run better on the celeron ...

  6. #6
    1)That site is horrible for comparing things, its just a good site to see the weaker/shit/laptop types or older models since it gives you a general image of "power", the best comparing tool is reading 10 reviews from 10 different sites then looking around Passmark/3D Mark results from average users.

    2)As already mentioned before, Synthetic benchmarks doesnt mean shit cause you wont be doing that in every day life.

    3)The only reason you would ever put a FX over an Intel is when you only do video editing and you cant afford the 330$ I7's.

    4)Its a simple architecture thing as to what is faster.. FX is already 2 years old and was already "weak" then, of course its weaker now, a G1630 might not be faster cause low frequency but a g3258 is faster for WoW, especially if you OC it to 4.5Ghz which is rather very easy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pyrophobia View Post
    Won't that single thread performance then have to be multiplied by 8 for AMD 8350 and by 4 for 4 core processors
    It doesnt work like that, each core isnt independent and works alone which is the next giant step in technology, last thing i remember ~6-8 months ago they started a project/found a way to do just that, they said by 2020 we should see the first results of actual "multi-core".

    The only thing AMD and their cores work correctly is at games that support so many cores/threads but the sad fact remains that even then, at games that support them (Crysis 3/BF4/BF3/Dragon Age Inquisition and probably only a couple more) a low-end i5 is around 5-10% faster and last time i checked i think..An OCed 5Ghz 8350 was still 10% behind a stock i5 4690K.. compared to the usual 30-50% you see in single threaded performance.

    Its just bad architecture.

    gamegpu.ru is one of the credible sources to compare AMD and Intel they test so many games for no reason which makes them rather viable, just spam that "Translate to English" ;p

    Unless they drop the FX 8350 in the 120$ price range, i would never recommend it to anyone since pretty much the an i3 4160 can provide the same power if not 120$ at least 145$ price range tops.
    Last edited by potis; 2015-02-16 at 11:15 AM.

  7. #7
    The most important part for me is when comparing processor's price vs their effectiveness

    If i compare the 8350 vs 4690 then the 4690 wins but it also costs more. 239$ vs 169$ according to amazon
    But thanks to all the answers and the suggested different ways to measure the processor performance i now know that the 8350 is behind the 4690 in % much less than their price difference

    in a comparison of assasin creed from that Rusian site a clocked 8350 at 4.7 vs clocked 4690 at 4.8 the performance difference is between 2-3%

    I am only slightly sad that in WoW / WoD the performance difference will be much closer to the price difference
    My hopes are that this is based on the flying test and the difference in Raid enviroment will fall back wich means AMD wins in performance : price ratio
    Last edited by Pyrophobia; 2015-02-16 at 12:42 PM.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Pyrophobia View Post
    The most important part for me is when comparing processor's price vs their effectiveness

    If i compare the 8350 vs 4690 then the 4690 wins but it also costs more. 239$ vs 169$ according to amazon
    But thanks to all the answers and the suggested different ways to measure the processor performance i now know that the 8350 is behind the 4690 in % much less than their price difference

    in a comparison of assasin creed from that Rusian site a clocked 8350 at 4.7 vs clocked 4690 at 4.8 the performance difference is between 2-3%

    I am only slightly sad that in WoW / WoD the performance difference will be much closer to the price difference
    My hopes are that this is based on the flying test and the difference in Raid enviroment will fall back wich means AMD wins in performance : price ratio
    Then you failed to grasp that it doesnt.

    AMD can handle single player games just fine, and the newer single player ones, the problem arises when the calculations have to be more, aka online gameplay.

    Doesnt matter which game and what, AMD always loses there, and that is the problem.

    Its 2015, very few people only play single player games.
    Last edited by potis; 2015-02-16 at 01:37 PM.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Pyrophobia View Post
    Won't that single thread performance then have to be multiplied by 8 for AMD 8350 and by 4 for 4 core processors
    Nope. Because MMORPGs are not very well multithreaded the single thread benchmark is closest approximation as I said, and modern i7's will run WoW over 50% faster in raids than FX-8350 as per the difference in the single thread charts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pyrophobia View Post
    Otherwise the 8350 stands below Intel Celeron G1630 @ 2.80GH and i doubt WoW will run better on the celeron ...
    It actually does run about as bad on Celeron and FX-8350. Where most people see real world difference is overclocking the AMD processor further because cheapest Intel CPUs are locked but it's false economy at the class of CPUs where both Intel and AMD can be overclocked just as much. More cores will also allow you to run stuff like video capture better with FX-8350 than on Celeron.


    Quote Originally Posted by Pyrophobia View Post
    The most important part for me is when comparing processor's price vs their effectiveness

    If i compare the 8350 vs 4690 then the 4690 wins but it also costs more. 239$ vs 169$ according to amazon
    But thanks to all the answers and the suggested different ways to measure the processor performance i now know that the 8350 is behind the 4690 in % much less than their price difference

    in a comparison of assasin creed from that Rusian site a clocked 8350 at 4.7 vs clocked 4690 at 4.8 the performance difference is between 2-3%

    I am only slightly sad that in WoW / WoD the performance difference will be much closer to the price difference
    My hopes are that this is based on the flying test and the difference in Raid enviroment will fall back wich means AMD wins in performance : price ratio
    You're forgetting two pretty important things when looking at price/performance which makes AMD actually fall way behind Intel on most benchmarks.

    1) Price of motherboard. AMD boards that allow stable 30% overclocking costs significantly more than Intel board allowing 30% OC.
    2) Price of electricity. FX-8350 uses about three times the electricity of modern i5 (only twice as much overclocked) which also adds up in the total cost of ownership over the years.

  10. #10
    "Price of electricity. FX-8350 uses about three times the electricity of modern i5 (only twice as much overclocked) which also adds up in the total cost of ownership over the years."


    That's the only part i can agree with.

    1. Wow runs on all 8(4) AMD cores
    2. Motherboards for AMD are cpeaper than the intel ones
    3. The 8350 price group would be i5-4570T 2.9GHz & i5-2310 2.9GHz (both are a lot weaker than the 8350 anyway i look at it)


    It's been years since wow runs on more than 1-2 cores according to what i have gathered and yet there are many ppl stating otherwise.
    My personal tests with limited knowledge show me how the 8 cores of the processor increase equal load when i increase the settings of the game and fly around lower to the ground in pandaria. With ULTRA settings every one of the 8 cores jumps up in load.

    Does runing on 8 cores still mean it's single tread? No realy? I will get screens when i get at home and have the time to.

    Next guy that says wow runs on single tread, please prove it, thanks.
    Last edited by Pyrophobia; 2015-02-16 at 02:26 PM.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Pyrophobia View Post
    "Price of electricity. FX-8350 uses about three times the electricity of modern i5 (only twice as much overclocked) which also adds up in the total cost of ownership over the years."


    That's the only part i can agree with.

    1. Wow runs on all 8(4) AMD cores
    2. Motherboards for AMD are cpeaper than the intel ones
    3. The 8350 price group would be i5-4570T 2.9GHz & i5-2310 2.9GHz (both are a lot weaker than the 8350 anyway i look at it)


    It's been years since wow runs on more than 1-2 cores according to what i have gathered and yet there are many ppl stating otherwise.
    My personal tests with limited knowledge show me how the 8 cores of the processor increase equal load when i increase the settings of the game and fly around lower to the ground in pandaria. With ULTRA settings every one of the 8 cores jumps up in load.

    Does runing on 8 cores still mean it's single tread? No realy? I will get screens when i get at home and have the time to.
    It may use all 8 cores, however, that's not the main thread. The main thread still runs on a single core. Always has, always will. It has to. The main thread is what matter the most and single core performance is what matters for running that main thread. An i3 does run WoW better, or any CPU bound game for that matter, than any AMD CPU for this reason.
    Last edited by Lathais; 2015-02-16 at 02:28 PM.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Lathais View Post
    It may use all 8 cores, however, that's not the main thread. The main thread still runs on a single core. Always has, always will. It has to. The main thread is what matter the most and single core performance is what matters for running that main thread. An i3 does run WoW better, or any CPU bound game for that matter, than any AMD CPU for this reason.
    understand

    Stil i fail to grasp the fact that in here http://www.anandtech.com/bench/CPU/62 and all the other places. THE intel cpu's that are performing equal to the 8350 i am looking at are from x1.5 to x3 times more expencive.

    basicly the i7 880 that is equal to the 8350 in that char is x3 times the price...
    hmmm the i5 750 is like 30% more expencive and just a bit better than the AMD and that's for WoW only the AMD will crush it everywhere else
    Last edited by Pyrophobia; 2015-02-16 at 02:45 PM.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Pyrophobia View Post
    understand

    Stil i fail to grasp the fact that in here http://www.anandtech.com/bench/CPU/62 and all the other places. THE intel cpu's that are performing equal to the 8350 i am looking at are from x1.5 to x3 times more expencive.

    basicly the i7 880 that is equal to the 8350 in that char is x3 times the price...
    hmmm the i5 750 is like 30% more expencive and just a bit better than the AMD and that's for WoW only the AMD will crush it everywhere else
    Because the Haswell i3's and Pentium G3258 are not on that list. That whole list look pre-Haswell.

    http://pcpartpicker.com/part/intel-cpu-bx80646g3258 : G3258 $50
    http://pcpartpicker.com/part/intel-cpu-bx80646i34150 : i3 $105
    http://pcpartpicker.com/part/amd-cpu-fd8320frhkbox : FX8320: $140
    http://pcpartpicker.com/parts/cpu/#s...&qq=1&s=23&m=6 : FX8350: $165
    Last edited by Lathais; 2015-02-16 at 03:21 PM.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lathais View Post
    Because the Haswell i3's and Pentium G3258 are not on that list. That whole list look pre-Haswell.

    http://pcpartpicker.com/part/intel-cpu-bx80646g3258 : G3258 $50
    http://pcpartpicker.com/part/intel-cpu-bx80646i34150: i3 $105
    http://pcpartpicker.com/part/amd-cpu-fd8320frhkbox : FX8320: $140
    http://pcpartpicker.com/parts/cpu/#s...&qq=1&s=23&m=6 : FX8350: $165
    This. In addition to what fixx mentioned, the benchmark you're looking at isn't a raid scenario where your CPU will be stressed. It's a benchmark using a flight path where the CPU doesn't have many draw calls due to very few players being around. CPUs will tank during a populated raid group. Single threaded performance is the only thing that was assist in reducing how much that CPU will tank during that time.

    The AMDs are cheaper for two reasons. 1) older CPUs with older architecture and 2) Both the single threaded performance and the power consumption are terrible on AMD CPUs, both which have been proven to be very important in particular situations. You pay for what you get in this scenario. If those 2 factors aren't ever going to be an issue for you then by all means save the money and purchase AMD.
    Last edited by Arbiter; 2015-02-16 at 03:04 PM.
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  15. #15
    Deleted
    I'll add my opinion to this (I'm expert no overclocking/thread performance and the like).

    I recently swapped from the 8350 to a 4690k and the difference in WoW I noticed is not in the general roaming gameplay/leveling but more so in the raid environments as my 8350 used to bottom out during intense fights to less the 20FPS at times.

    The 4690k on the other hand can deal with raiding much better, staying above 40FPS all the time to my knowledge and I'm normally in the thick of it tanking. I can run WoW on Ultra no issues with my R9 270X as well with WoW being CPU heavy.

    I have had a stable OC on the 4690k at 4.5 with only 10c increase in temps.

    Try not to let the price put you off of going intel as they are worth that little extra and will outlast the AMD in terms of life span. Save for an extra month or 2 then do the upgrade.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Pyrophobia View Post
    understand

    Stil i fail to grasp the fact that in here http://www.anandtech.com/bench/CPU/62 and all the other places. THE intel cpu's that are performing equal to the 8350 i am looking at are from x1.5 to x3 times more expencive.

    basicly the i7 880 that is equal to the 8350 in that char is x3 times the price...
    hmmm the i5 750 is like 30% more expencive and just a bit better than the AMD and that's for WoW only the AMD will crush it everywhere else
    Why the hell are you comparing 5 year old cpus with a 2 year old one?

    By doing that you are also proving what we are saying. For wow and single thread even a 5 year old cpu is better than amd-trash.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Tharin View Post
    I'll add my opinion to this (I'm expert no overclocking/thread performance and the like).

    I recently swapped from the 8350 to a 4690k and the difference in WoW I noticed is not in the general roaming gameplay/leveling but more so in the raid environments as my 8350 used to bottom out during intense fights to less the 20FPS at times.

    The 4690k on the other hand can deal with raiding much better, staying above 40FPS all the time to my knowledge and I'm normally in the thick of it tanking. I can run WoW on Ultra no issues with my R9 270X as well with WoW being CPU heavy.

    I have had a stable OC on the 4690k at 4.5 with only 10c increase in temps.

    Try not to let the price put you off of going intel as they are worth that little extra and will outlast the AMD in terms of life span. Save for an extra month or 2 then do the upgrade.
    and since the main thread is on one core and all the other threads WoW uses can easily run on the other core, an i3 performs very similar to the i5 in WoW. Granted, not as good, but still better than the 8350.

  18. #18
    Old God Vash The Stampede's Avatar
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    A lot of it has to do with what the application demands. A 8350 will do fine in most applications compared to a Haswell i5 but gaming is not one of them. Punch for punch, an Intel i3 would outperform it in games. But an i5 compared to an i3 only does a few fps better, even though it has twice the cores. An i7 has almost no impact in games compared to an i5.

    This has a lot to do with games mostly wanting single threaded performance. They like one core to be very fast, compared to 4 slower cores cause it won't use those 3 extra cores.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dukenukemx View Post
    A lot of it has to do with what the application demands. A 8350 will do fine in most applications compared to a Haswell i5 but gaming is not one of them. Punch for punch, an Intel i3 would outperform it in games. But an i5 compared to an i3 only does a few fps better, even though it has twice the cores. An i7 has almost no impact in games compared to an i5.

    This has a lot to do with games mostly wanting single threaded performance. They like one core to be very fast, compared to 4 slower cores cause it won't use those 3 extra cores.
    Newer games with newer engines that use a lot of cores (like Cryengine and Frostbite) fare better on AMD (meaning, AMD processors only run them a little bit slower than Intel rather than a lot slower in games like WOW). But the 4770k and 4790k still outperform the 8350 while using much less power.
    Last edited by Stormspark; 2015-02-16 at 05:27 PM.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pyrophobia View Post



    Next guy that says wow runs on single tread, please prove it, thanks.
    wow uses a single main primary thread, 2 secondary threads, and a bunch of tertiary threads, so while its not locked to a single core, it gets very little benefit by adding more cores and much more benefit by improving core performance, so logically its fine to treat it like a single thread game when comparing cpus

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