AS for shadow seem even viable single target....

[ruggleee]

i have seen lot of logs of Spriest, who did AS on single fight like gruul and doing very well in single target, honestly i never liked the COP(dotweave) rotation, i was doing it because its was the better dps in general, but now, we have AS that can perform very well single target, im raiding tomorrow with my alt priest and i was asking myself if i could go FULL crit and keep AS for all the fight, i tested on dummy and i was pretty impressive even single target(very close to COP dotweave rotation) even if im mastery right now,(with good crit same but can do better)

thought? my Mate Spriests!

p.s i seen cascade is extremely powerfull on beastlord as well,!!!

honestly i feel excited to play AS in raid

[drivertz]

yep, AS will scale better with gear and probably will be number 1 talent on near future.

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And YES, COP SUCKS.

[Deleted]

Yes, with decent crit gear AS is now viable to play single target. CoP is still the best on pure single target, given equal gear and skill level, but AS is not so far behind that its stupid to play anymore, unless you absolutely need that maximum damage.

[Fleuria]

With a good bit of RNG though AS seems to do extremely well on 1 target and can easily beat out CoP. Pretty sure with the right crit level it could probably beat CoP most of the time.

[Deleted]

I imagine if you go full crit gear, yes it might do. If you go mastery however, you'll do more dps with CoP than you would with AS crit gear.

[Dawnrage]

CoP is better than AS on single by a decent amount, the problem is that you need a mastery set tailored for it, and mastery only works on single target.

Almost everyone is going crit, and that lets AS catch up if not surpass it. There is also an RNG aspect to AS that can increase your DPS by a decent margin if you get extremely lucky (especially if you have oregorger's trinket), more so than the typical RNG you face.

AS on a lot of targets is fun, but AS on one or two targets feels very RNGish to me and I kind of don't like it. I hate to say but I wish CoP was still the go-to for one or two targets since I like consistent DPS.

[Deleted]

CoP is better than AS on single by a decent amount, the problem is that you need a mastery set tailored for it, and mastery only works on single target.

Almost everyone is going crit, and that lets AS catch up if not surpass it. There is also an RNG aspect to AS that can increase your DPS by a decent margin if you get extremely lucky (especially if you have oregorger's trinket), more so than the typical RNG you face.

AS on a lot of targets is fun, but AS on one or two targets feels very RNGish to me and I kind of don't like it. I hate to say but I wish CoP was still the go-to for one or two targets since I like consistent DPS.

Pretty much this. If you are privileged enough to be able to collect two sets of gear, one mastery and one crit, I reckon CoP would always be the way to go for single target. No way to say for sure unless / until somebody tests AS crit vs CoP mastery.

[J50]

Why would you gimp yourself if you're able to do better DPS in an different spec?

[Fleuria]

Why would you gimp yourself if you're able to do better DPS in an different spec?

Because AS is best on literally every other fight bar 2 in BRF, AS just seems to be really RNG though if you want to do good damage on 1 target + some rando spawn things.

[J50]

"Literally every fight"

"except for"

[Fleuria]

"Literally every fight"

"except for"

People were just saying that AS can be better on 1 target compared to CoP with a little luck due to the fact you are gearing Crit anyway and not mastery because of those 8 other fights... it's not really gimping the raid if it has the possibility to be better, just go check Hanno's gruul log for example.

[Deleted]

Why would you gimp yourself if you're able to do better DPS in an different spec?

Majority of fights use AS in BRF.

Mastery is excellent for CoP.

Mastery is pointless for AS.

Crit is good for CoP.

Crit is excellent for AS.

You see the difference? This is why people are going crit in BRF. It's the best stat to compromise with between AS and CoP. Other classes have priority in my raid team for mastery gear. I have priority for crit gear. It's the way most raid teams work out. Until everybody has their BiS, I will not get a mastery set gear going.

[Biomega]

So what *other* stat should one go for, then? I get that Crit is the best choice for obvious reasons, but few if any gear pieces only have one stat. What's the best secondary to go for? Mastery there, despite its obvious letdown for AS? Multistrike?

[Dierdre]

CoP is better than AS on single by a decent amount, the problem is that you need a mastery set tailored for it

You don't. Crit and haste work perfectly fine with CoP.

[Yvaelle]

Right, the theory with our mastery and CoP was that they would be able to tune our single target up or down by adjusting either Mastery or CoP, knowing it would be the lead single target choice (which it is). The issue is that since our mastery isn't significantly better than our other stats for CoP right now, having a full mastery set doesn't significantly benefit CoP DPS more than a set with balanced stats, or even a relatively stacked alternate stat - like crit.

If they wanted to, they could buff our mastery slightly, which would make a mastery CoP set more relevant, and of course slightly increase our CoP + Mastery Set single target DPS. I don't think they are that into fine tuning us though - it's enough for them that it works in theory

[ruggleee]

Right, the theory with our mastery and CoP was that they would be able to tune our single target up or down by adjusting either Mastery or CoP, knowing it would be the lead single target choice (which it is). The issue is that since our mastery isn't significantly better than our other stats for CoP right now, having a full mastery set doesn't significantly benefit CoP DPS more than a set with balanced stats, or even a relatively stacked alternate stat - like crit.

If they wanted to, they could buff our mastery slightly, which would make a mastery CoP set more relevant, and of course slightly increase our CoP + Mastery Set single target DPS. I don't think they are that into fine tuning us though - it's enough for them that it works in theory

with what your say, crit seem really the way to go right now? also what do you think about cascade, it seem really decent for lot of fight(on beast lord more) its pretty impressive, thought on what boss to use this? would it replace halo? personaly i know that for beast lord its really good since it come back everytime for the beast pack over halo, which is why it is really strong, by also hiting spears

[Yvaelle]

with what your say, crit seem really the way to go right now? also what do you think about cascade, it seem really decent for lot of fight(on beast lord more) its pretty impressive, thought on what boss to use this? would it replace halo? personaly i know that for beast lord its really good since it come back everytime for the beast pack over halo, which is why it is really strong, by also hiting spears

Crit is the way to go right now IMO - it's the best stat for AS, and it's the second best stat for CoP - that gives you flexibility based on the fight (not to mention most BRF fights are designed for AS anyways).

Cascade is great now, big improvement over the old design, I'm so glad they listened Part of the reason as you mention is just that a 40 second cooldown (Halo) doesn't fit into a lot of the fights very well, where a 25 second cooldown is more useful. Part of it is that on the fights where we do need a burst of AOE damage, targets are all over the place - not just clumped on the tank (where Halo is best) - so on Darmac you can Cascade every add wave, or Halo every second - on Kromog you don't need to take a centre spot (the most contested and/or reserved for healers), it's actually beneficial for Cascade to be toward the edge of the room.

So yes, definitely consider Cascade a very real choice for DPS now - but particularly in BRF just due to the fight designs - it's not that Halo is bad - it's just that none of the fights want us to hit a ton of small adds clumped on the tank (Halo) - which is a very common mechanic that just doesn't appear in BRF (except when with DK tanks using Gorefiends on Operator Throkgar).

Divine Star is good for nothing, it was never really good for anything - except clumped raid healing (Thok the Bloodthirsty in SoO) - so now that it doesn't heal, the underlying weakness of the damage profile is apparent. If they wanted to fix it, make it a Meteor-cleave star - make it deal big damage to a single target, or split damage to a clump - then it would be a situational (when we are allowed to be within ~20 yards of the boss) single target option - which is probably the only niche it could be advantageous when compared to Cascade and Halo for AoE damage.

[Dawnrage]

You don't. Crit and haste work perfectly fine with CoP.

It works "fine" the same way haste works fine for AS - it's not nearly as optimal. Mastery is a decent margin above any other stat for me for my sims. Sure add in movement and stuff and the other stats become better but the one single target fight this tier (and maybe oregorger) have very predictable/no movements that mastery > all.

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Cascade is great now, big improvement over the old design

I agree but I'm curious if anyone who has time can go figure out how it works exactly. I got to mess with it and it sometimes seem to hit a target multiple times for some odd reason that I couldn't figure out. I thought it could only do 2 hits?

Looking at my logs, I don't quite get it still. It looks like each bolt can hit each target twice? So it's possibly for one target to get hit by the majority of cascades if there's enough targets and not just two hits? That seems to work differently compared to pre-patch, where it could only hit a target once, regardless of the number of bolts.

There also seems to be a problem with multi-strike and cascade or I have insanely bad luck. I had about 200 hits of cascade and only one was a multistrike? That can't be right.

[Deleted]

I tried Cascade last night on Beastlord. It is awesome. Was doing 55k+ dps, cascade was my biggest damage dealing spell. I was basically left to deal with spears whilst others dealt with packs and boss (also funneling orbs into boss) so the cacade damage wasn't just padding either, but useful damage.

[Deleted]

Luckily, as a Spriest with AS talent, actually multi-dotting adds on fights like beastlord and blast furnace significantly increases your ST DPS as well. You can get great logs on beastlord without ever casting mind sear if the spears aren't killed too quickly (which they shouldn't be) and you have cascade which takes a big dump on Halo for this fight.

Best of both worlds, good damage on the boss and any adds without sacrificing anything really.

As far as ST goes, I think it depends primarily on what gear you have and how many orbs you start the fight with. For me personally, starting with 4-5 orbs, I found my DPS to be higher than CoP with AS if heroism was used at the start (gruul for example) but I've never had a clean gruul kill tbh. Either people die and it gets messy or I get riddled with petrifies and cave ins over and over.

Still think CoP is much better than AS though for Oregorger and Blackhand. On Oregorger, more capacity to kill the crates quickly, good damage on the move during rolly phase where AS struggles. For Blackhand, heroism used at 30%, buffs our CoP execute immensely, high damage-mobility during the final phase and gives you more capability to burst siegemakers when armor is off.