Overwatch tries to pander to gender diversity activists and fails

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Okay... just to point out: rather than talking about the interesting character herself, were talking about how the character's phyisque has been overtuned to appeal to a select audience of people who just wanted a character that wasn't the usual slender chick? How about we start talking about hoe McCree is white. Yeah; he's white so he offends non whites because he increases the already very high white people proportion of the cast so far. Oh, and he's a cowboy. Cowboys were outlaws, right? Outlaws kill people. I'm sure he offends people whowere victims of crime.

/sarcasm

Point is, that were really grasping at straws here. A bunch of guys down the street from my house at Irvine, came up with a cool idea about a buff lady captain who goes around hefting a big ass sci fi gun, andhere we are interpretting it as somesort of conspiracy to appeal to certain audiences (which there is a good chance there is, which is not a particularly bad thing as long as they didn't make her just for that reason). I'm sure they've invested alot of effort deving cool stories for her.

[KrazyK923]

But he's still just that: a cowboy. Chiseled jaw. Bristly facial hair. A stereotype.

There are most certainly female cowboys, so I'm going to stop you right there. Also, once again, a profession is different from a gender/sexuality.

Not everyone can be plucky and british or sophisticated and a gorilla. But they're still, in their own ways, stereotypes. And that helps manifest their character. Which isn't bad when you're going for "quick read," which Blizzard is doing.

A super gorilla from the moon is a stereotype? I think the only character even remotely close to him is Gorilla Grodd.

[paralleluniverse]

This isn't the first fat female character from Blizzard (other examples include the Enchanter in D3 and Princess Theradras in WoW), but when announcing Zarya, Jeff Kaplan did explicitly make a point that Blizzard has listened to calls for more diversity and will make more diverse characters: http://www.twitch.tv/pax2/b/633377001?t=34m56s

[Val the Moofia Boss]

I like her, though I do admit it is in part due to the fact that she is not just another sleek lady type. Is that a bad thing?

[Louisa Bannon]

@ Protar

Yeah, I basically don't care about this news either way, I guess my bigger point is to stop taking the bait from either Kotaku or Anita - they are irrelevant. Enjoy or don't enjoy a game on its own terms, and not through the lens of these SJW jerks. Its unfortunate they we are still talking about it as if they matter. Eventually they will disappear from the conversation because as I said, they are outsiders and not any part of the market/user base no matter what they claim.

Since I think gaming culture dovetails very tightly with comics and science fiction more generally, every time one of these SJW steps up and criticizes anything just hand them a link to Starstruck by Elaine Lee and Michael Kaluta and tell them: "Oh hey, 1982 called and said you may already be a winner. Now shut the fuck up!" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starstruck_%28comics%29

[Immitis]

I don't disagree at all. I would say that the profession of Cowboy defining somebody and being a burly woman are two different things.

One is a gender/sexuality trait and one is a profession. Literally anybody can be a cowboy. The same is not true for a female with a large body type.

i dont see why this is a bad thing. hanzo is basically ninja asian man even down to his name. and the only thing keeping zenyatta from being a massive stereotype of the typical monk is the fact that its a robot.

overwatch makes stereotypes out of races and cultures along with things like cowboys and space apes.

zarya fits right in. also am i missing something about zarya? i dont think they ever said she was a lesbian

[KrazyK923]

Point is, that were really grasping at straws here. A bunch of guys down the street from my house at Irvine, came up with a cool idea about a buff lady captain who goes around hefting a big ass sci fi gun, andhere we are interpretting it as somesort of conspiracy to appeal to certain audiences (which there is a good chance there is, which is not a particularly bad thing as long as they didn't make her just for that reason).

But...people aren't interpreting it as a conspiracy. Kaplan directly said she was included because of bodytype during her introduction, and the majority of the time talking about the character (except for her moveset of course) was about her being one.

i dont see why this is a bad thing. hanzo is basically ninja asian man even down to his name. and the only thing keeping zenyatta from being a massive stereotype of the typical monk is the fact that its a robot.

Yes, they definitely are. And so is Zarya. Its bad because its lazy. Instead of an original idea, its a stereotype, and one that is also being used by Blizz to be like, "Look how inclusive we are!"

[melkesjokolade]

How exactly do they fail?

[Deleted]

I like that if Blizzard said nothing about why they implemented the character that way probably this discussion would have been" "oh cool character, I like her"

[Val the Moofia Boss]

I'm sure Hanzo was added because he's get this: "Asian".

[Kaleredar]

There are most certainly female cowboys, so I'm going to stop you right there.

Those would be cowgirls, good sir.

And besides. I say "cowgirl." You get an image in your head. Probably some slender, shapely woman with a cowboy hat, wielding some form of handgun or shotgun, perhaps in a trenchcoat or other classic western accoutrements and likely with a bandolier.

You probably don't imagine some weathered, homely woman stooped with the burden of labor and whose features have been weathered and roughened by the elements. At least, not initially.

A super gorilla from the moon is a stereotype? I think the only character even remotely close to him is Gorilla Grodd.

Compare him to Beast from X-men. Or the orangutangs from planet of the apes. "Sophisticated" simians or animals.

The "from the moon" and "hyper-technology" is how they make the concept their own.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Also; did it ever occur to you that they made Tracer the OW... I dunno; a girl?

[Deleted]

I don't think anybody is in denial at all. I think people are worried that Blizzard changed something while seemingly doing so because a minority of people were whining on Tumblr, and the like 2 people who complained about it at Blizzcon, about how their game should be changed to fit some litmus test of diversity.

Also a character's purpose and their play style have almost nothing to do with one another. Zarya could be the best hero in the game (And I think her abilities are cool), that doesn't mean she doesn't seem like a complete Token character.

That was kind of my point. These two things are separate issues, they're not mutually exclusive.

In any case, right out the gate Blizzard told us that diversity was an important issue for Overwatch. That was before the discussion on social media sites. They're the ones who opened up this discussion. Now one could argue that the reason they've given diversity in Overwatch so much thought is because of complaints about WoW, Diablo and Starcraft. But at the end of the day, no one has forced Blizzard to do anything. No doubt they've been getting these complaints for years and could almost certainly continue to operate a successful business without taking those concerns into account.

I just feel as though people are trying to make out that SJWs have bullied Blizzard and beaten them to their knees. And now broken and sobbing Blizzard are holding up diversity offerings to their new tumblr overlords. But that's clearly not really the case. Blizzard want to do this, so why people are saying stuff like "SJWs should just let Blizzard do what they want!" is beyond me.

[KrazyK923]

I'm sure Hanzo was added because he's get this: "Asian".

I think you're failing to understand that its not that a minority was introduced into the game, its that one was introduced with the express purpose of catering to some SJW demographic who have been crying about literally everything regarding Video Games for a few years now.

Those would be cowgirls, good sir.

And besides. I say "cowgirl." You get an image in your head. Probably some slender, shapely woman with a cowboy hat, wielding some form of handgun or shotgun, perhaps in a trenchcoat or other classic western accoutrements and likely with a bandolier.

No, not really. I think of a female woman with a cowboy hat and that's about it. You still seem to fail to understand this is wildly different from a non-typical body type who is a woman. Anybody can be a cowboy, as I've said about 4 times now.

Compare him to Beast from X-men. Or the orangutangs from planet of the apes. "Sophisticated" simians.

W-what? They aren't the same at all other than being gorillas.

[Arrashi]

She kinda feels like ruled heavy from TF2.

[Immitis]

But...people aren't interpreting it as a conspiracy. Kaplan directly said she was included because of bodytype during her introduction, and the majority of the time talking about the character (except for her moveset of course) was about her being one.



Yes, they definitely are. And so is Zarya.

and so why is this a bad thing?

i mean if you want to complain about the game as a whole thats fine but zarya is no different then anyone else just because shes a caricature of the russian strong woman stereotype.

when they announced overwatch they basically said part of the point of overwatch was to have these massive exaggerations and crazy pants ideas. its intentional and its kind of the point

[Deleted]

A super gorilla from the moon is a stereotype? I think the only character even remotely close to him is Gorilla Grodd.

He does follow the broader Genius Bruiser stereotype though. I'm getting big Beast (from X-men) vibes from Winston.

[KrazyK923]

and so why is this a bad thing?

i mean if you want to complain about the game as a whole thats fine but zarya is no different then anyone else just because shes a caricature of the russian strong woman stereotype.

when they announced overwatch they basically said part of the point of overwatch was to have these massive exaggerations and crazy pants ideas. its intentional and its kind of the point

Stereotypes are lazy, that's why.

[arandomuser]

Holy crap, the mgtow and MRA trolls are out in full force

ITS A FUCKING VIDEO GAME, HOLY FUCK



Why does the fact that theres a character feminist like piss you off so much, go play a fucking anime game if thats what you prefer know one is forcing you to play overwatch.

[Deleted]

I just feel as though people are trying to make out that SJWs have bullied Blizzard and beaten them to their knees. And now broken and sobbing Blizzard are holding up diversity offerings to their new tumblr overlords. But that's clearly not really the case. Blizzard want to do this, so why people are saying stuff like "SJWs should just let Blizzard do what they want!" is beyond me.

Considering also that Blizzard has a philosophy try to appeal to a as wide as possible audience this has probably be a conscious decision on their part. It is a simple reaction to current community climate