Raid utilities monk

[Deleted]

After seeing the Mythic Blackhand kill from Method it was clear to me that stacking some classes right now just pays off. If you see how they use Druid/Stamping in combination with Fox/Hunter in p1 you clearly see that those raid cool downs are a must for killing him.

Right now monks have 0 raid cool downs. We add nothing to the raid that a Raid Leader can use. It is a kind of sad, we are one of the classes if not the only class that adds nothing but DPS to a raid. (Warri, rogue, druids, DK’s, even Pala, and the list continues have a CD that helps the raid preform better) So why would a Raid Leader take a monk over any other dps? He simply won’t take us, our dps is medium at best and with no extra utilities we can’t help in a raid rotation.

So this got me thinking, I propose we get something like the hunters have with Aspect of the Fox. Of course not with the same name but something in those lines. Being able to cast on the move for the whole raid. This will help our classes be a better addition to raids and gives Raid Leaders an extra option then to stack hunters for some fights.

[Dahij]

After seeing the Mythic Blackhand kill from Method it was clear to me that stacking some classes right now just pays off. If you see how they use Druid/Stamping in combination with Fox/Hunter in p1 you clearly see that those raid cool downs are a must for killing him.

Right now monks have 0 raid cool downs. We add nothing to the raid that a Raid Leader can use. It is a kind of sad, we are one of the classes if not the only class that adds nothing but DPS to a raid. (Warri, rogue, druids, DK’s, even Pala, and the list continues have a CD that helps the raid preform better) So why would a Raid Leader take a monk over any other dps? He simply won’t take us, our dps is medium at best and with no extra utilities we can’t help in a raid rotation.

So this got me thinking, I propose we get something like the hunters have with Aspect of the Fox. Of course not with the same name but something in those lines. Being able to cast on the move for the whole raid. This will help our classes be a better addition to raids and gives Raid Leaders an extra option then to stack hunters for some fights.

Class stacking is usually needed when people undergear the content. When normal people get to blackhand they will probably have way better gear than the ones competing for world first, so classes should not matter as much.

[Notter]

Or, you know... give us back the old Zen Med
i don't understand why they nerfed it

[TrollShaman]

The redirect portion of zen med? I don't recall any useful moments with that aside from PvP.

Though I do understand the raid utilities are rather poor aside from revival and fistweaving, but that's what only MW monks can offer and I'd say they're pretty solid. At least they slightly buffed WW monk's movespeed aura in 6.1, now players that leave the proximity of the monk get a 10s duration of the buff which gets refreshed when standing close to the monk again.

[Deleted]

This was one of the main points people brought up when WW damage was awful, they simply don't have enough utility to justify meh damage.


Things like diffuse/dampen harm & transcendence have their uses obviously. But there's not a whole lot thats WW exclusive. Windwalking should be expanded further in my opinion.

[Alhoon]

At least they slightly buffed WW monk's movespeed aura in 6.1, now players that leave the proximity of the monk get a 10s duration of the buff which gets refreshed when standing close to the monk again.

Windwalking is irrelevant because it doesn't stack with Stampeding Roar, ie. it's not applied when it's needed the most.

[Deleted]

Windwalking is irrelevant because it doesn't stack with Stampeding Roar, ie. it's not applied when it's needed the most.

Is that still true after 6.1? Speed bonuses now stacking has been one of the features of this patch.

[Babylonius]

Class stacking should only occur at the absolute highest level of raiding. Anyone other guild outside of the top 100 who are class stacking are deluding themselves.

[Brathozmvp]

"our dps is medium at best" fuckin lol

[DizzyMonk]

Even after the 6.1 buffs I'm being sat on mythic progression bosses.

[Laeahndria]

Even after the 6.1 buffs I'm being sat on mythic progression bosses.

It may be because of how bad they remember we were on ST.

[Katryn]

Even after the 6.1 buffs I'm being sat on mythic progression bosses.

On ST we're now pretty good. I'm not getting much time in for Blackhand but that's because other classes bring so much more utility or have something specific that they counter in the fight.

[Toroc]

We make up in other ways for not having a raid CD depending on what spec you play. I don't think people realize how much of a game changer Touch of Death can be; think back to Elegon. You're not being sat because you don't offer a raid CD and like others have stated- class stacking in pointless if your guild isn't actively in the progression race (which is technically over).

I'm not personally attacking anyone but if you're being sat its more likely that you suck or your raid leader doesn't have a clue what he/she is doing.

[Viradiance]

"Mystical Force" or something like that. Increases the range of all abilities by 20 yards for your party or raid for 6 seconds. Basically, a melee-centric version of Fox that lets them deal full damage in a semi-ranged environment. Could also be useful for ranged to, say, deal with a mob while outrange their mechanics. It gets even sillier when you consider the effect 20 extra yards on Tranquility would have on, say, Kromog heroic. Or the effects of 20 extra yards on a mastery-stacked Marks hunter, even.

[Tradu]

Or, you know... give us back the old Zen Med
i don't understand why they nerfed it

The old Zen Med that didn't work on most mechanics anyway, so the tooltip was just misleading when it still pretended it redirected spells?

Monk raid utility is pretty bad. I mean, Brewmaster is a very good tank, but they don't really bring any raid utility outside of that(kiting is part of their tanking kit imo). Windwalker has the super duper amazing(read: unnoticeable) movementspeed aura. Mistweavers at least have the utility of being able to add a pretty decent chunk of damage to the raid if needed.
That said, outside of the very high end, class stacking doesn't really happen most of the time, so it doesn't matter as much(although it'd be nice to bring some utility beyond my damage)

[Deleted]

Class stacking should only occur at the absolute highest level of raiding. Anyone other guild outside of the top 100 who are class stacking are deluding themselves.

I disagree. This gets thrown around a lot. Raid comps provide an equal advantage regardless of the guilds level. The bosses become killable with any comp later on I agree, but having 3 of X class will still make it 10-20% more likely to fall over for the less skilled guild.

Just because class stacking isn't technically needed doesn't mean that huge advantage suddenly goes away. Player skill blurres the lines obviously. But saying certain set ups don't give an advantage to regular guilds is completely wrong. The only difference between a normal guild and a top guild is a normal guild considers player ability + spec they play. While a top guild only consider the spec.

Either way. Raid cooldowns still matter

[Sickjen]

The redirect portion of zen med? I don't recall any useful moments with that aside from PvP.

Though I do understand the raid utilities are rather poor aside from revival and fistweaving, but that's what only MW monks can offer and I'd say they're pretty solid. At least they slightly buffed WW monk's movespeed aura in 6.1, now players that leave the proximity of the monk get a 10s duration of the buff which gets refreshed when standing close to the monk again.

Dark shamans if your tank was about to take a cast and die you could med the hit.
Magera - 5 Hits off rampage
Sha of fear transition redirect the damage.

It had uses just they where hard to spot

[Juliansfist]

If your tank was dieing on Dark Shamans and you required zen med to save the day then things are cutting it way too close and the raid would benefit far more from improving other deficiencies than a redirecting zen med; similar for Sha of Fear (I honestly did not know about this as I never saw it as an issue). Regarding Megaera's rampage - yes zen med provided some icing on the cake.

For WW I would rather the focus remain on damage - in particular improving WW mastery.

[Sickjen]

If your tank was dieing on Dark Shamans and you required zen med to save the day then things are cutting it way too close and the raid would benefit far more from improving other deficiencies than a redirecting zen med; similar for Sha of Fear (I honestly did not know about this as I never saw it as an issue). Regarding Megaera's rampage - yes zen med provided some icing on the cake.

For WW I would rather the focus remain on damage - in particular improving WW mastery.

Zen mediation wasn't exactly useful in most situations but it was there and had some uses. I actually remember more often then not whirl coming in and trying to Zen med it.... Yeah that wasn't fun .... at all... we could use something but the grounding effect may not be ideal. Perhaps a healing aura from it would've been nice.

[Katryn]

I think a large problem highlighted by the raid comps commonly used for Mythic Blackhand are the following:

1. They are ranged heavy
2. Everyone has significant raid utility

From my perspective as an endgame raider playing for a long time now it really seems that Blizzard struggles to make difficult content that doesn't immediately cause ranged DPS to be significantly favoured. They often design encounters which force ranged DPS to move, but this is simply countered by bringing hunters and druids, for Fox and Roar respectively.

I think the response could be:

1. Increase the damage output of all melee classes by 5-10%. This does mean that melee would be significantly favoured for fights like Gruul or Butcher. The numbers here may be extreme but Blizzard have stated that they rarely create "patchwerk" bosses anyway and I believe that the hardest bosses are rarely this style of boss.
2. Remove raid utility from all DPS classes. That means hunters should be brought for their strong DPS, personal cooldowns and mobility, not because they trivialise movement for all the other DPS and healers. Or;
3. Alternatively give more utility to other classes in the same way they've spread out the buffs. This means doing things like giving WW some raid utility, restoring the AG to its former glory for Enhance etc.