1. #4201
    Quote Originally Posted by Witchblade77 View Post
    light attacks will be returning resources. THAT is where sustain will be coming from. and no, to do the best, you need to weave your light attacks in between your skills. skills have a global cooldown and light attacks have a global cooldown, but that cooldown is NOT shared, so weaving allows you to fire off a skill AND a light attack within a single global cooldown - that is why weaving makes such a difference. you do NOT use consecutive light attacks when weaving. meanwhile heavy attacks with this change? are getting their resource return REMOVED.

    as for animation canceling, some of it is done via weaving. not all though. and the only way to solve it is to normalize animations and cast times. right now, there are a LOT of animations that last longer then cast times of skills those animations are associated with. so in context of increasing dps via animation canceling, what players do is shorten the appearance of the cast to its actual cast time. most of the time what you are canceling is animations for light attacks rather then skills. since light attacks are instant cast, but their animations.. are not. but there are also some skills that do that as well, and by timing things like block or bar swap just right - high end players are able to essentially use more abilities in less time. and this would NOT be a thing if ZoS's animations weren't so out of sync with their ability cast times. which is what they have so clumsily attempted to fix with their most recent block changes. lets just say, it didn't work as intended.
    So the "fix" would be to make light attacks and skills share a global cd. That way the weaving would be impossible. That doesnt sound hard to apply. Ofc assuming weaving light attacks is even worthwhile after the nerfs.

    Also, with the new changes would it be possible to maintain standard rotation for 5+ minutes with only weaving light attacks? Because the more light attacks you make the higher the resource return. And base return for single light attack was reduced, but dont remember if that was in ptr notes.

  2. #4202
    Quote Originally Posted by Aliven View Post
    So the "fix" would be to make light attacks and skills share a global cd. That way the weaving would be impossible. That doesnt sound hard to apply. Ofc assuming weaving light attacks is even worthwhile after the nerfs.

    Also, with the new changes would it be possible to maintain standard rotation for 5+ minutes with only weaving light attacks? Because the more light attacks you make the higher the resource return. And base return for single light attack was reduced, but dont remember if that was in ptr notes.
    ZoS doesn't want weaving to be impossible. they have embraced it. they like that it exists - they acknowledge that its what keeps ESO combat different from other MMO's and they are NOT doing away with it. I'm pretty sure I saw a login screen tip talking about it. the nerf was to damage component of a light attack. however, they still do some damage, and now that they also return resources - weaving is more worth it that ever. gotta do something while that skill cooldown is happening, might as well feed sustain with it. new changes are making it MORE possible then on live right now, because on live - light attacks do NOT return resources. heavy attacks do. on pts - its been flipped.

    and to reiterate. weaving is not spamming light attacks. weaving is adding light attacks in between skill used to double up your actions essentially. light attacks cost no resources. they are free damage. same for heavy attacks. and red headed stepchild - medium attacks that people only make by accident. that stacking resource buff to maximum return? is completely pointless to a skilled weaver. its a dps loss.

    but in any case, they reduced the damage from light attacks, while increasing the damage to heavy attacks. and while its creates a possibility for heavy attack ONLY builds, those are not top dps builds or even medium dps builds for people who cannot weave. they are slow action cheese builds. meanwhile, because light attacks are now returning resources? they take sustain completely out of consideration for anyone that weaves well. yes, damage was reduced for top dps. however. skill gap was NOT narrowed. skill only builds are STILL not viable. and if you had a heavy attack build that helped you with sustain - like a lot of support builds? you are going to have MUCH harder time now, cause no more sustain from heavy attacks.

    these changes suck for everyone who does anything beyond questing. and for some who are questing as well - mostly newer people who have no cp to help them out.

    the one saving grace is that these changes are not final just yet and they are just testing them out. so its possible that we are going to dodge THIS bullet.

    and this thread offers some much more reasonable IMO alternatives https://forums.elderscrollsonline.co...one-instead/p1
    Last edited by Witchblade77; 2020-03-27 at 04:00 AM.

  3. #4203
    Not to derail the discussion going on about the changes, but there's only one ESO thread.

    I like efficiency so I want to pick a separate race for each class, and at least 2 of each faction. I want them to be ok stat wise for the class, but also kinda fit well lore wise. Thoughts on this set up:

    Warden - Argonian
    Necromancer - Dark Elf
    Dragonknight - Orc
    Sorcerer - Breton
    Templar - High Elf
    Nightblade - Khajiit

    The Sorcerer/Templar are the two choices I least confident in.

  4. #4204
    Quote Originally Posted by ro9ue View Post
    Not to derail the discussion going on about the changes, but there's only one ESO thread.

    I like efficiency so I want to pick a separate race for each class, and at least 2 of each faction. I want them to be ok stat wise for the class, but also kinda fit well lore wise. Thoughts on this set up:

    Warden - Argonian
    Necromancer - Dark Elf
    Dragonknight - Orc
    Sorcerer - Breton
    Templar - High Elf
    Nightblade - Khajiit

    The Sorcerer/Templar are the two choices I least confident in.
    I'd have switched those two.
    Hail Lilith and see you in Hell!

  5. #4205
    The Insane Kathandira's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ro9ue View Post
    Not to derail the discussion going on about the changes, but there's only one ESO thread.

    I like efficiency so I want to pick a separate race for each class, and at least 2 of each faction. I want them to be ok stat wise for the class, but also kinda fit well lore wise. Thoughts on this set up:

    Warden - Argonian
    Necromancer - Dark Elf
    Dragonknight - Orc
    Sorcerer - Breton
    Templar - High Elf
    Nightblade - Khajiit

    The Sorcerer/Templar are the two choices I least confident in.
    If you are just role playing, sure. If you are looking to perform well, this list needs to be more comprehensive. Since there are 4 different roles for each class, you'd need to list that out.

    Roles:
    Tank
    Healer
    Mage DPS
    Stam DPS

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Witchblade77 View Post
    ZoS doesn't want weaving to be impossible. they have embraced it. they like that it exists - they acknowledge that its what keeps ESO combat different from other MMO's and they are NOT doing away with it. I'm pretty sure I saw a login screen tip talking about it. the nerf was to damage component of a light attack. however, they still do some damage, and now that they also return resources - weaving is more worth it that ever. gotta do something while that skill cooldown is happening, might as well feed sustain with it. new changes are making it MORE possible then on live right now, because on live - light attacks do NOT return resources. heavy attacks do. on pts - its been flipped.

    and to reiterate. weaving is not spamming light attacks. weaving is adding light attacks in between skill used to double up your actions essentially. light attacks cost no resources. they are free damage. same for heavy attacks. and red headed stepchild - medium attacks that people only make by accident. that stacking resource buff to maximum return? is completely pointless to a skilled weaver. its a dps loss.

    but in any case, they reduced the damage from light attacks, while increasing the damage to heavy attacks. and while its creates a possibility for heavy attack ONLY builds, those are not top dps builds or even medium dps builds for people who cannot weave. they are slow action cheese builds. meanwhile, because light attacks are now returning resources? they take sustain completely out of consideration for anyone that weaves well. yes, damage was reduced for top dps. however. skill gap was NOT narrowed. skill only builds are STILL not viable. and if you had a heavy attack build that helped you with sustain - like a lot of support builds? you are going to have MUCH harder time now, cause no more sustain from heavy attacks.

    these changes suck for everyone who does anything beyond questing. and for some who are questing as well - mostly newer people who have no cp to help them out.

    the one saving grace is that these changes are not final just yet and they are just testing them out. so its possible that we are going to dodge THIS bullet.

    and this thread offers some much more reasonable IMO alternatives https://forums.elderscrollsonline.co...one-instead/p1
    If I were them, i'd give Heavy attack it's recovery back. Make it equal to how much recovery you were receive from the same amount of time it takes to LA.

    If I heavy attack took as long as 3 light attacks, allow heavy attacks to return the same amount of magicka.
    RIP Genn Greymane, Permabanned on 8.22.18

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  6. #4206
    Quote Originally Posted by Kathandira View Post
    If you are just role playing, sure. If you are looking to perform well, this list needs to be more comprehensive. Since there are 4 different roles for each class, you'd need to list that out.

    Roles:
    Tank
    Healer
    Mage DPS
    Stam DPS

    - - - Updated - - -



    If I were them, i'd give Heavy attack it's recovery back. Make it equal to how much recovery you were receive from the same amount of time it takes to LA.

    If I heavy attack took as long as 3 light attacks, allow heavy attacks to return the same amount of magicka.

    more or less what the thread i linked suggests. scale light to heavy attack damage and recovery (so medium attacks are not completely useless, but heavy or light are still better depending on your playstyle)

  7. #4207
    Quote Originally Posted by Kathandira View Post
    If you are just role playing, sure. If you are looking to perform well, this list needs to be more comprehensive. Since there are 4 different roles for each class, you'd need to list that out.

    Roles:
    Tank
    Healer
    Mage DPS
    Stam DPS
    Still fairly new to the game, so not sure yet. Goal is to explore all of the trees as I level up for now, but the lore thing is important to me.

    Has anyone built any characters where you're able to do all casual activities pretty well? I'm trying to accomplish that on an Orc Dragon Knight. I'm not looking to min/max him, he's just my main crafter and I want him to be able to do casual PVP, quest effectively, and potentially tank a regular daily dungeon.

    I was thinking about filling out all of the crafting trees, going Heavy Armor, 2h, Sword and Board, Bow and splitting attributes between Stamina and Health. Maybe 40 health, 20 stamina.

    Again not looking to min max, just to be able to do all of the content in game casually. Any recommendations on what skills to prioritize there?

  8. #4208
    Quote Originally Posted by ro9ue View Post
    Still fairly new to the game, so not sure yet. Goal is to explore all of the trees as I level up for now, but the lore thing is important to me.

    Has anyone built any characters where you're able to do all casual activities pretty well?
    Magicka Templar is awesome. Can do all the solo content including Delves, World Bosses and even normal dungeons. Pretty good for casual playstyle

  9. #4209
    Btw is Alcast still the go-to for builds?
    Hail Lilith and see you in Hell!

  10. #4210
    ESO is free to play for 2 weeks during the anniversary event where you can get 100% xp. If anyone was considering trying, now is the best time, especially if you want a character for the upcoming Skyrim expansion.

    https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/freeplay

  11. #4211
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Btw is Alcast still the go-to for builds?
    He is and nothing has changed in the last years about that (and the builds, if we're honest).
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  12. #4212
    Over 9000! Mirishka's Avatar
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    I was looking for an alternative to WoW in the months leading up to Shadowlands - I've burned out on raiding in the past couple weeks and grown tired of terrible M+ chest rewards. And so a couple days ago I picked ESO up along with all the pre-Greymoor expansions for a good sale price. I was starting to get into it, finding a good rhythm with the combat (even got in on a Dragon world boss kill), but then I opened the crown store.

    And it killed any interest I was developing in the game.

    Maybe I'm missing something (certainly possible, I just started playing again) but it seemed like the crown store was full of meaningful game content - one of the playable races (Imperial), questlines and small expansions and such - many of them costing thousands of crowns apiece, in a game that is not only purchased but also has a monthly sub AND paid expansions.

    I'm fine with pets/mounts etc in a shop, cosmetics and such. But this went beyond that, IMO.

    Again, maybe I'm missing something. Maybe there's some awesome way to earn crowns in game and get all that stuff. But being prompted to buy crowns sure didn't give me that impression. The most expensive crown pack, being like $140 or something, would only buy a fraction of the things in the shop.

    Ultimately ended up uninstalling the game. I have a huge library of SP games to finish/start, guess I'll spend my WoW downtime on them instead.
    My greatest fear is that one day, my MMO-Champion ignore list will run out of space.

  13. #4213
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirishka View Post
    I was looking for an alternative to WoW in the months leading up to Shadowlands - I've burned out on raiding in the past couple weeks and grown tired of terrible M+ chest rewards. And so a couple days ago I picked ESO up along with all the pre-Greymoor expansions for a good sale price. I was starting to get into it, finding a good rhythm with the combat (even got in on a Dragon world boss kill), but then I opened the crown store.

    And it killed any interest I was developing in the game.

    Maybe I'm missing something (certainly possible, I just started playing again) but it seemed like the crown store was full of meaningful game content - one of the playable races (Imperial), questlines and small expansions and such - many of them costing thousands of crowns apiece, in a game that is not only purchased but also has a monthly sub AND paid expansions.

    I'm fine with pets/mounts etc in a shop, cosmetics and such. But this went beyond that, IMO.

    Again, maybe I'm missing something. Maybe there's some awesome way to earn crowns in game and get all that stuff. But being prompted to buy crowns sure didn't give me that impression. The most expensive crown pack, being like $140 or something, would only buy a fraction of the things in the shop.

    Ultimately ended up uninstalling the game. I have a huge library of SP games to finish/start, guess I'll spend my WoW downtime on them instead.
    You are missing that you can get it all with the sub.
    Hail Lilith and see you in Hell!

  14. #4214
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirishka View Post
    I was looking for an alternative to WoW in the months leading up to Shadowlands - I've burned out on raiding in the past couple weeks and grown tired of terrible M+ chest rewards. And so a couple days ago I picked ESO up along with all the pre-Greymoor expansions for a good sale price. I was starting to get into it, finding a good rhythm with the combat (even got in on a Dragon world boss kill), but then I opened the crown store.

    And it killed any interest I was developing in the game.

    Maybe I'm missing something (certainly possible, I just started playing again) but it seemed like the crown store was full of meaningful game content - one of the playable races (Imperial), questlines and small expansions and such - many of them costing thousands of crowns apiece, in a game that is not only purchased but also has a monthly sub AND paid expansions.

    I'm fine with pets/mounts etc in a shop, cosmetics and such. But this went beyond that, IMO.

    Again, maybe I'm missing something. Maybe there's some awesome way to earn crowns in game and get all that stuff. But being prompted to buy crowns sure didn't give me that impression. The most expensive crown pack, being like $140 or something, would only buy a fraction of the things in the shop.

    Ultimately ended up uninstalling the game. I have a huge library of SP games to finish/start, guess I'll spend my WoW downtime on them instead.
    You get practically everything free with the monthly sub. Plus, with the sub each month you get crowns so eventually you can buy everything and cancel the sub if you don't want the QoL additions the sub gives you (the crafting bag is by far the biggest IMO). The only thing I believe you don't get is the imperials plus the new classes, but I believe you probably got the classes from what you bought already.

    Having said all that, if you have any interest in dungeons, I would play without a sub for now. The reason is that with a sub you get every single dungeon in the pool for the random queue and the ones after the base game have increased in difficulty so much so that most of them on normal are more difficult that heroic versions of base-game dungeons. Get used to the game and the combat, build your character up a bit and if you feel that you are rolling then dungeons then go for a sub and have fun.

  15. #4215
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirishka View Post
    I was looking for an alternative to WoW in the months leading up to Shadowlands - I've burned out on raiding in the past couple weeks and grown tired of terrible M+ chest rewards. And so a couple days ago I picked ESO up along with all the pre-Greymoor expansions for a good sale price. I was starting to get into it, finding a good rhythm with the combat (even got in on a Dragon world boss kill), but then I opened the crown store.

    And it killed any interest I was developing in the game.

    Maybe I'm missing something (certainly possible, I just started playing again) but it seemed like the crown store was full of meaningful game content - one of the playable races (Imperial), questlines and small expansions and such - many of them costing thousands of crowns apiece, in a game that is not only purchased but also has a monthly sub AND paid expansions.

    I'm fine with pets/mounts etc in a shop, cosmetics and such. But this went beyond that, IMO.

    Again, maybe I'm missing something. Maybe there's some awesome way to earn crowns in game and get all that stuff. But being prompted to buy crowns sure didn't give me that impression. The most expensive crown pack, being like $140 or something, would only buy a fraction of the things in the shop.

    Ultimately ended up uninstalling the game. I have a huge library of SP games to finish/start, guess I'll spend my WoW downtime on them instead.
    when buying a game for the first time - you get 500 crowns. subscribing for a month - adds up to just a bit more then what you need to buy imperial upgrade (imperials are honestly just... ok. they are more or less an equivalent of allied races). as long as you stay subscribed - you get acess to every content update sold on crown store, included with your subscription. which continues to come with allotment of 1635 crowns per month. any race any alliance bundle is approximately 1.5 months of subscription - that basicaly does what it says on a tin. no more limitations of which alliance gets which race. various upgrades like skyshards, etc - are 1. time savers 2. cannot be purchased until you unlock corresponding achievement on at least one character 3. IMO not worth it, as getting them through gameplay is easy enough. vampire/werewolf bites are overpriced hassle, as you can usually get someone to bite you in game for free - as long as you show up at appropriate shrine. and if you decide to cleanse yourself - a priest in a temple will do that for nominal amount of gold

    last but not least. you know how wow has tokens you can trade for gold, or buy with gold? similar, though inferior (as in less safe) system exists in ESO. i haven't bought crown store fluff with my own crowns in a while, excluding occasional limited house - because i've traded gold for someone else's crowns to do so. the system is inferior because its not as protected as wow token exchange and it works on principle of gifting specific items rather then set amount of crowns, BUT.. there are couple of discords that make it safer to trade, so there's that.

    crown store might seem like it sells all these essentials and unfortunately, the way its framed for a new player who doesn't know any better - it would seem that you need to buy these things to get a complete game. but... you do not. at all.

  16. #4216
    Over 9000! Mirishka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Witchblade77 View Post
    when buying a game for the first time - you get 500 crowns. subscribing for a month - adds up to just a bit more then what you need to buy imperial upgrade (imperials are honestly just... ok. they are more or less an equivalent of allied races). as long as you stay subscribed - you get acess to every content update sold on crown store, included with your subscription. which continues to come with allotment of 1635 crowns per month. any race any alliance bundle is approximately 1.5 months of subscription - that basicaly does what it says on a tin. no more limitations of which alliance gets which race. various upgrades like skyshards, etc - are 1. time savers 2. cannot be purchased until you unlock corresponding achievement on at least one character 3. IMO not worth it, as getting them through gameplay is easy enough. vampire/werewolf bites are overpriced hassle, as you can usually get someone to bite you in game for free - as long as you show up at appropriate shrine. and if you decide to cleanse yourself - a priest in a temple will do that for nominal amount of gold

    last but not least. you know how wow has tokens you can trade for gold, or buy with gold? similar, though inferior (as in less safe) system exists in ESO. i haven't bought crown store fluff with my own crowns in a while, excluding occasional limited house - because i've traded gold for someone else's crowns to do so. the system is inferior because its not as protected as wow token exchange and it works on principle of gifting specific items rather then set amount of crowns, BUT.. there are couple of discords that make it safer to trade, so there's that.

    crown store might seem like it sells all these essentials and unfortunately, the way its framed for a new player who doesn't know any better - it would seem that you need to buy these things to get a complete game. but... you do not. at all.
    Thanks for clarifying!

    This is exactly why I said 'I might be missing something' because I thought... are the devs seriously THIS greedy? And this blatant about it?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Fkiolaris View Post
    You get practically everything free with the monthly sub. Plus, with the sub each month you get crowns so eventually you can buy everything and cancel the sub if you don't want the QoL additions the sub gives you (the crafting bag is by far the biggest IMO). The only thing I believe you don't get is the imperials plus the new classes, but I believe you probably got the classes from what you bought already.

    Having said all that, if you have any interest in dungeons, I would play without a sub for now. The reason is that with a sub you get every single dungeon in the pool for the random queue and the ones after the base game have increased in difficulty so much so that most of them on normal are more difficult that heroic versions of base-game dungeons. Get used to the game and the combat, build your character up a bit and if you feel that you are rolling then dungeons then go for a sub and have fun.
    Thanks to you as well.
    My greatest fear is that one day, my MMO-Champion ignore list will run out of space.

  17. #4217
    ESO is currently the best MMO on the market, bar none.

  18. #4218
    Quote Originally Posted by Velthy View Post
    Magicka Templar is awesome. Can do all the solo content including Delves, World Bosses and even normal dungeons. Pretty good for casual playstyle
    Will try that. Probably gonna go Breton.

    Got a link to any guides for MagTemplar build that you think is good?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Mirishka View Post
    I was looking for an alternative to WoW in the months leading up to Shadowlands - I've burned out on raiding in the past couple weeks and grown tired of terrible M+ chest rewards. And so a couple days ago I picked ESO up along with all the pre-Greymoor expansions for a good sale price. I was starting to get into it, finding a good rhythm with the combat (even got in on a Dragon world boss kill), but then I opened the crown store.

    And it killed any interest I was developing in the game.

    Maybe I'm missing something (certainly possible, I just started playing again) but it seemed like the crown store was full of meaningful game content - one of the playable races (Imperial), questlines and small expansions and such - many of them costing thousands of crowns apiece, in a game that is not only purchased but also has a monthly sub AND paid expansions.

    I'm fine with pets/mounts etc in a shop, cosmetics and such. But this went beyond that, IMO.

    Again, maybe I'm missing something. Maybe there's some awesome way to earn crowns in game and get all that stuff. But being prompted to buy crowns sure didn't give me that impression. The most expensive crown pack, being like $140 or something, would only buy a fraction of the things in the shop.

    Ultimately ended up uninstalling the game. I have a huge library of SP games to finish/start, guess I'll spend my WoW downtime on them instead.
    ESO definitely doesn't do itself any favors by throwing the crown store in peoples' faces as soon as they log in. I had the same first impression. You browse the crown store and see Dark Brotherhood and Thieves' Guild on there, stuff you feel should be baseline and it kinda turns you off to the game.

    After playing the game for months and thinking about it, comparing the monetization to WoW's, I decided I like ESO plus better. So first of all, it's not required. If I decide I can't play much and unsub, I can still hop on randomly if I find free time and have full access to my characters, level alts and have access to the majority of the game.

    So that's already better than WoW where you can't even log into a character without the $15 paywall.

    Then you look at what you get for the sub: 1650 crowns, which alone would cost $15, and an account wide reagent bank which drastically improves inventory management it's easily worthwhile to get. PLUS access to all of the DLC content while active.

    On top of that say you are subbed to the game for a year, you can use those ~20k crowns you've accumulated to buy the DLC packs outright, giving you permanent access to them in the future.

    You also have the ability to trade gold with players and buy their crowns, and many crown store items like houses and such have an equivalent gold price in place of crowns.

    It's definitely not perfect, and I think I'd argue some things like the reagent bank are so useful and improve the game drastically that it should be offered baseline, but overall I prefer it as an optional sub.

  19. #4219
    Quote Originally Posted by ro9ue View Post
    Will try that. Probably gonna go Breton.

    Got a link to any guides for MagTemplar build that you think is good?
    https://alcasthq.com/eso-solo-magick...lar-build-pve/
    The gear (second set) is also super easy to get
    I can solo pretty much every non-DLC dungeon with it

    And you can easily switch it around to play healer for group content if you are up for it (healing in ESO is very different and imo very fun).
    Hail Lilith and see you in Hell!

  20. #4220
    The Lightbringer GKLeatherCraft's Avatar
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    ESO Werewolf question

    Hey! After over 13 years of playing WoW I decided to give Elder Scrolls Online a go, mainly because my brother has started it.

    But any way I have a question regarding Werewolf. I got the Werewolfs Bite today. And looking online beforehand I'd seen it gives you a quest to go to a shrine, accept the gift etc, but I had no quest, it just automatically gave me the werewolf perk, when was this changed? And is there any way to do the quest?

    And the second thing in regards to ESO is the crown store Crates, I bought 40 of them and got a couple mounts, one being a Radiant Apex mount, my brother bought some, got 4 mounts, one also being a Radiant apex, but looking online I've seen people say they can buy 100s and never see one. Are they actually as rare as people say or is just simply "RNG is RNG"? (curious as I'd like to try for some more in the future)

    Thanks!

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