1. #3721
    Quote Originally Posted by Witchblade77 View Post
    Im sorry, but i HAVE to disagree with your asserion that its worse than swtor. having played swtor preferred vs ESO non subscriber - sure one month of sub unlocks acess to content, but the amount of quality of life features you lose in SWTOR if you do not subscribe is absolutely staggering. even if you spend gigantic amounts of cartel coins to unlock every possible quality of life feature like you know.. being able to use all 3 crew skills, having more skill bars, being able to hide your helmet - it still restricts you by a LOT

    in ESO you lose a craft bag. in SWTOR you get restricted to how many credits you can use and you lose ability to purchase more bag space etc with in game credits anyways. ESO - full acess to trials for whatever content you own. SWTOR - NO acess to ops. ESO - you gain 10% less xp and gold than subscriber, which honestly I barely even felt, especially with no gold maximums per character. SWTOR you gain 10% OF renown xp and THAT is an improvement from you originally getting ZERO command xp back in a day. housing. ESO - buy a house (and you don't have to get one of the crown houses, there's like 40 something houses that have a gold cost and some of them are quest rewards, so you basically get them at no additional gold cost) and you are good to go, SWTOR - upgrade one wing at a time and because of credit limits, you pretty much have to use cartel coins if you are not a subscriber. furniture - bulk of ESO's furnishings are crafted/vendor/achievement based. relatively small amount is cash shop only, and almost no furnishings are locked behind RNG cash crates. SWTOR. bulk of the furnishings are cash shop only, and more then half of those are locked behind rng crates.

    and so on and so forth. one of the biggest differences in cash shops is that in ESO - a lot of what is sold in a cash shop, is earnable in game. there is an overlap. you can buy it with cash, or you can buy it with in game gold and now that crown gifting is a thing, you can literally get all of the DLC's gifted to you, traded for in game gold. I am aware that you can buy most cash shop things in swtor with credits, BUT... the costs are prohibitive especially with credit limits.

    in a nutshell i can continuously play ESO without subscription just fine and mostly it just means I spend a bit more time on bag management and cannot hoard as much gear. i can NOT play swtor without subscription unless I'm just leveling alts and even then, unlike ESO's overlap of cash shop OR in game means (like the newest motif for instance, you can buy it from cash shop, or you could farm vet dungeon for drops), in swtor most things kinda have to come from cash shop before they can even be sold to players. there are NO in game means to earn those things.

    is ESO perfect? no. not even remotely. but is it worse that SWTOR? it takes some serious personal bias to say that with a straight face
    Yes but in swtor you can also buy or get gifted with cartel exclusive items and unlocks. Sure, cash limit hurts a lot (actually dont know how it is right now but it was painfull) but you get all the content for free. With one sub - eso still lock all dlc if you dont sub. Dunno how it is with expansion.

  2. #3722
    Quote Originally Posted by Aliven View Post
    Yes but in swtor you can also buy or get gifted with cartel exclusive items and unlocks. Sure, cash limit hurts a lot (actually dont know how it is right now but it was painfull) but you get all the content for free. With one sub - eso still lock all dlc if you dont sub. Dunno how it is with expansion.
    like I said.. you can trade someone gold to gift you DLC's in ESO and the only restriction between ESO plus and regular ESO you have this way? is craft bag. which just means you spend a little extra time dealing with inventory. you do NOT have to spend credits or rl money, unlocking any other quality of life features that you are nickel and dimed for in SWTOR. you also do not need to subscribe, ever - to unlock those DLC's with gold.

    current credit limit in SWTOR is 1 mil. which given inflation is still nowhere near enough to unlock anything. also, last I checked, even without trading, generating gold in ESO is far FAR easier then generating credits in SWTOR - given relative costs thansk to bioware allowing multiple credit duping exploits go for weeks and never removing any of those credits out of economy..

    once you have DLC's in ESO unlocked (that includes prior expacs) - you are not limited in any way. you don't have loot limits, you can run trials or dungeons as much as you'd like, you do not need to cheese your way into extra balltegrounds, like you have to in SWTOR.

    SWTOR is virtually unplayable without subscription unless the only thing you do is level alts and drop them the moment they finish the story.

    ESO? plays just fine.

    ESO cash shop has a LOT of stuff. but.. unlike swtor, a lot of that stuff is NOT exclusive to cash shop. most furnishings can be bought with crowns, OR crafted. most motifs with exception of like... 3 I think? drop in game. skyshards are entirely in game thing and i would recommend against buying them on alts in a cash shop, TBH. they do not take that long to get through gameplay. vamp or werewolf bites? people give those out for free, constantly. and so on. and so forth.

    SWTOR, even after they relaxed their preferred restrictions - is STILL far more restrictive than ESO. yeah, sure you have unlocked the solo story, but you also still have NO acess to any of the operations and your ability to get loot from flashpoints, or do pvp, is limited, because they removed weekly passes.

    and before you say "but in swtor, you can buy cash shop stuff from the store and sell it to other players" you can do the same thing in ESO.

  3. #3723
    Quote Originally Posted by Witchblade77 View Post
    like I said.. you can trade someone gold to gift you DLC's in ESO and the only restriction between ESO plus and regular ESO you have this way? is craft bag. which just means you spend a little extra time dealing with inventory. you do NOT have to spend credits or rl money, unlocking any other quality of life features that you are nickel and dimed for in SWTOR. you also do not need to subscribe, ever - to unlock those DLC's with gold.

    current credit limit in SWTOR is 1 mil. which given inflation is still nowhere near enough to unlock anything. also, last I checked, even without trading, generating gold in ESO is far FAR easier then generating credits in SWTOR - given relative costs thansk to bioware allowing multiple credit duping exploits go for weeks and never removing any of those credits out of economy..

    once you have DLC's in ESO unlocked (that includes prior expacs) - you are not limited in any way. you don't have loot limits, you can run trials or dungeons as much as you'd like, you do not need to cheese your way into extra balltegrounds, like you have to in SWTOR.

    SWTOR is virtually unplayable without subscription unless the only thing you do is level alts and drop them the moment they finish the story.

    ESO? plays just fine.

    ESO cash shop has a LOT of stuff. but.. unlike swtor, a lot of that stuff is NOT exclusive to cash shop. most furnishings can be bought with crowns, OR crafted. most motifs with exception of like... 3 I think? drop in game. skyshards are entirely in game thing and i would recommend against buying them on alts in a cash shop, TBH. they do not take that long to get through gameplay. vamp or werewolf bites? people give those out for free, constantly. and so on. and so forth.

    SWTOR, even after they relaxed their preferred restrictions - is STILL far more restrictive than ESO. yeah, sure you have unlocked the solo story, but you also still have NO acess to any of the operations and your ability to get loot from flashpoints, or do pvp, is limited, because they removed weekly passes.

    and before you say "but in swtor, you can buy cash shop stuff from the store and sell it to other players" you can do the same thing in ESO.
    You kinda downplay the crafting bag, because creating mules is, for me something more that "little extra time managing inventory".

    Yes i agree, swtor is good for the story and not much else without sub. But the same for me is ESO. This is ofc subjective.

    Sucks that they removed weekly passes in swtor, didnt played it in a long time.

  4. #3724
    Quote Originally Posted by Aliven View Post
    You kinda downplay the crafting bag, because creating mules is, for me something more that "little extra time managing inventory".

    Yes i agree, swtor is good for the story and not much else without sub. But the same for me is ESO. This is ofc subjective.

    Sucks that they removed weekly passes in swtor, didnt played it in a long time.
    its... really not subjective. how much you enjoy the story is subjective. art style, setting etc - those are personal preferences. but as far as monetanization goes.. you objectively can do more without subscription in ESO than you can in SWTOR, and the focus on the cash shop is objectively stronger in SWTOR than in ESO - given the amount of cash shop exclusives you get in swtor, vs ESO.

    SWTOR also comes with bag management. they only very recently added materials storage (which last I checked was not infinite the way craft bag is. but does that compensate for all the other quality of life nickel and diming they are STILL doing and the fact that you can. not. do. endgame. in swtor, and you CAN in ESO? no. it does not.

    weekly passes were removed years ago. it honestly feels like you are speaking through rose tinted memories when it comes to playing SWTOR without subscription (or even with it TBH)

    as far as comparing value of WoW vs ESO - as long as we assume that you are paying for subscription on both, the only argument you can make is that ESO expansions are smaller then those of WoW, so you could say that WoW offers more value for the purchase price + subscription due to sheer volume of content you get to play through. i can SEE the argument being made for that. but NOT for SWTOR monetanization being more fair than that of ESO.

    P.S. I don't keep mules anymore. on my account that doesn't have ESO plus, I keep all the mats in a bank becasue that way all my characters have immediate acess to them, periodically transferring them to craft bag every time ESO plus trial comes around; and gear sets in home storage.

  5. #3725
    Banned Lazuli's Avatar
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    I love that they gave imperial city DLC for free so everyone can get these midyear achievements. Pvp is the shit right now,.

    https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/e...ews/post/57605

  6. #3726
    Quote Originally Posted by Lazuli View Post
    I love that they gave imperial city DLC for free so everyone can get these midyear achievements. Pvp is the shit right now,.

    https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/e...ews/post/57605
    I honestly never got the pvp appeal from Cyrodiil. Basically it's just mounting around an empty landscape for minutes on end until you get to your destination. Then it's just 1 mob of players vs another mob. The bigger of the two usually steamrolling the otherside with no real challenge.

  7. #3727
    Quote Originally Posted by Witchblade77 View Post
    its... really not subjective. how much you enjoy the story is subjective. art style, setting etc - those are personal preferences. but as far as monetanization goes.. you objectively can do more without subscription in ESO than you can in SWTOR, and the focus on the cash shop is objectively stronger in SWTOR than in ESO - given the amount of cash shop exclusives you get in swtor, vs ESO.

    SWTOR also comes with bag management. they only very recently added materials storage (which last I checked was not infinite the way craft bag is. but does that compensate for all the other quality of life nickel and diming they are STILL doing and the fact that you can. not. do. endgame. in swtor, and you CAN in ESO? no. it does not.

    weekly passes were removed years ago. it honestly feels like you are speaking through rose tinted memories when it comes to playing SWTOR without subscription (or even with it TBH)

    as far as comparing value of WoW vs ESO - as long as we assume that you are paying for subscription on both, the only argument you can make is that ESO expansions are smaller then those of WoW, so you could say that WoW offers more value for the purchase price + subscription due to sheer volume of content you get to play through. i can SEE the argument being made for that. but NOT for SWTOR monetanization being more fair than that of ESO.

    P.S. I don't keep mules anymore. on my account that doesn't have ESO plus, I keep all the mats in a bank becasue that way all my characters have immediate acess to them, periodically transferring them to craft bag every time ESO plus trial comes around; and gear sets in home storage.
    I meant that playing eso without a sub is not worth it for me IMO (i mean other than for story and sighseeing) which is the same with swtor.

    I played swtor last time when the second knight clusterfuck dropped and finished it. There were passes, i remember them just not giving loot from the last boss. But i also ALWAYS played with a sub running. Im also a founder and got everything unlocked (all customization options, all crew skills slot, etc).

  8. #3728
    Quote Originally Posted by Very Tired View Post
    I honestly never got the pvp appeal from Cyrodiil. Basically it's just mounting around an empty landscape for minutes on end until you get to your destination. Then it's just 1 mob of players vs another mob. The bigger of the two usually steamrolling the otherside with no real challenge.
    sometimes sieges can be fun, because its mob against mob - fighting to keep or take the castle, and there are siege weapons involved.

    that said - battlegrounds are definitely more to my liking. imperial city ... vexes me. it vexes me because I personaly despise pvpve zones (and because of mechanics behind tel var). but I can almost see why some people love it.

    incidentally, twitch drops are active right now for the next few days.

  9. #3729
    Quote Originally Posted by Witchblade77 View Post
    incidentally, twitch drops are active right now for the next few days.
    Thanks!

  10. #3730
    Banned Lazuli's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Very Tired View Post
    I honestly never got the pvp appeal from Cyrodiil. Basically it's just mounting around an empty landscape for minutes on end until you get to your destination. Then it's just 1 mob of players vs another mob. The bigger of the two usually steamrolling the otherside with no real challenge.
    I agree its the same in any daoc clone pvp mode these days, I much prefer BGs but cyrodiil is the easiest and especially right now best way to get transmute stones. I at least do 1 campaign each month. The pvp bonuses still apply to BGs though, to get the scroll you only need to enter cyrodiil for like 1 minute. The achievements there don't take long either.

  11. #3731
    i'm pretty disappointed they're wasting time with a vampire rework when they could have added a college of winterhold skill line.

    doesn't even seem like winterhold will be accessible at first.

    oh well though, resubbed and gonna let some good consoomer points build up for a bit. hope that meridian motif is on the shop long enough for me to build the points for it.

  12. #3732
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    Quote Originally Posted by derpkitteh View Post
    i'm pretty disappointed they're wasting time with a vampire rework when they could have added a college of winterhold skill line.

    doesn't even seem like winterhold will be accessible at first.

    oh well though, resubbed and gonna let some good consoomer points build up for a bit. hope that meridian motif is on the shop long enough for me to build the points for it.
    You're better off buying the one of the 90/180/365 day sub because the crowns are given up front, if you're going to be subbed for that time anyway then may as well and its cheaper. I had like 22k from the year.

  13. #3733
    Quote Originally Posted by Lazuli View Post
    You're better off buying the one of the 90/180/365 day sub because the crowns are given up front, if you're going to be subbed for that time anyway then may as well and its cheaper. I had like 22k from the year.
    eh, i'd say i've got time. got like 2800 points, so only like two months more to get the motif i want.

    but yeah though, since they're obviously gonna give us vampire lord form, they better change our strain to sanguinare vampiris. gonna be dumb if they just slap it on noxophilic sanguivoria for the sake of it.

  14. #3734
    Quote Originally Posted by derpkitteh View Post
    eh, i'd say i've got time. got like 2800 points, so only like two months more to get the motif i want.

    but yeah though, since they're obviously gonna give us vampire lord form, they better change our strain to sanguinare vampiris. gonna be dumb if they just slap it on noxophilic sanguivoria for the sake of it.
    you always have an option to get someone to gift it to you for gold

    I'm reasonably sure that they confirmed in post announcement stream that there will be no winterhold at all

  15. #3735
    Quote Originally Posted by Witchblade77 View Post
    you always have an option to get someone to gift it to you for gold

    I'm reasonably sure that they confirmed in post announcement stream that there will be no winterhold at all
    people would want very high thousands for that motif, since it costs 6k points. i've only got like a 100k on a couple characters. i'm alright with having to wait a bit, not having a lot of money trains your patience for this kind of stuff. is hard to resist spending it on those altmer costume dresses though.

    and that's what i figured. a real shame and a waste, especially since we just worked with shalidor in the mage's guild, the founder of the college of winterhold. i suppose the only silver lining there is that maybe they still want to hold out on giving us things like flame atronach or dremora summoning until the spellcrafting update and they're working on it in the background.

  16. #3736
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    Quote Originally Posted by derpkitteh View Post
    people would want very high thousands for that motif, since it costs 6k points. i've only got like a 100k on a couple characters. i'm alright with having to wait a bit, not having a lot of money trains your patience for this kind of stuff. is hard to resist spending it on those altmer costume dresses though.

    and that's what i figured. a real shame and a waste, especially since we just worked with shalidor in the mage's guild, the founder of the college of winterhold. i suppose the only silver lining there is that maybe they still want to hold out on giving us things like flame atronach or dremora summoning until the spellcrafting update and they're working on it in the background.
    I remember on PS4 the exchange rate was something like 1 crown = 100g. It honestly isn't a bad deal if you can control your spending and save up a few hundred thousand gold.
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  17. #3737
    Quote Originally Posted by derpkitteh View Post
    people would want very high thousands for that motif, since it costs 6k points. i've only got like a 100k on a couple characters. i'm alright with having to wait a bit, not having a lot of money trains your patience for this kind of stuff. is hard to resist spending it on those altmer costume dresses though.

    and that's what i figured. a real shame and a waste, especially since we just worked with shalidor in the mage's guild, the founder of the college of winterhold. i suppose the only silver lining there is that maybe they still want to hold out on giving us things like flame atronach or dremora summoning until the spellcrafting update and they're working on it in the background.
    according to interviews, spellcrafting is not on the agenda any time soon (or possibly ever) so.. yeah :/

    and i mean, its up to you, personaly I hate paying crowns for something that is available in game, so even if its something like Welkynar (which was far more annoying to farm than Meridian) - I'll just trade gold for crowns. but... I've played long enough that i'm starting to sit on more gold than I know what to do with (that is not an offer to share, I'm still hoping that they release more gold purchasable houses, and its also nice to have a stash to spend on those crown things :P ). own all the houses already and lux vendor hasn't been going through its.. third rotation at this point, I think? well.. you get the picture :P

  18. #3738
    Quote Originally Posted by Witchblade77 View Post
    according to interviews, spellcrafting is not on the agenda any time soon (or possibly ever) so.. yeah :/
    it's not entirely dead yet though.

    also, how do zenibros know that i watched the stream? i got an email that i got the bat the pet from the stream, and i did watch the stream, but i don't have a twitch account.

  19. #3739
    Quote Originally Posted by derpkitteh View Post
    it's not entirely dead yet though.

    also, how do zenibros know that i watched the stream? i got an email that i got the bat the pet from the stream, and i did watch the stream, but i don't have a twitch account.
    becasue getting a bat wasn't tied to watching a stream, it was tied to killing any enemy during the week or so after the stream finished. so if you killed anything that gives xp and is not a player? /shrug.

    that said... given how much trouble they already have balancing combat (thank you LA weaving and all that other fun stuff) - they are NOT adding anything that will make it even harder for them to balance. I mean.. they are adding 2 new skill lines and NEITHER of them are combat related.

    best case scenario is that they are going to add something called "spell crafting" but its just going to be something that will allow you to change spell appearance, NOT create any sort of functionality.

  20. #3740
    Quote Originally Posted by Witchblade77 View Post
    becasue getting a bat wasn't tied to watching a stream, it was tied to killing any enemy during the week or so after the stream finished. so if you killed anything that gives xp and is not a player? /shrug.

    that said... given how much trouble they already have balancing combat (thank you LA weaving and all that other fun stuff) - they are NOT adding anything that will make it even harder for them to balance. I mean.. they are adding 2 new skill lines and NEITHER of them are combat related.

    best case scenario is that they are going to add something called "spell crafting" but its just going to be something that will allow you to change spell appearance, NOT create any sort of functionality.
    really? i thought the bat was for watching the stream. that's how the email made it sound. cute pet though, but wish they'd give us a nice horse for it some time. i hope if they add any new normal horses, they have the model and animations of the dro-m'athra horse, because its shape and animations are much better than the vanilla horses.

    idk, i saw a pic of a tweet where they said it's still something they want to do. so there's at least one random internet picking around at it somewhere in the office in his spare time, i'd say.

    the reason they probably hold off doing it, and the general problem with an elder scrolls mmo, is what does it add for melee players? every elder scrolls game up until ESO has been that if you're a warrior, you're just a person swinging a weapon and that's it. ESO goes the furthest away from that paradigm with actual melee abilities tied to the weapons. everything cool in elder scrolls is for mages or daedric priests, not warriors and archers.

    i wouldn't have a problem if they never added anything for melee players again, and i think the melee skill lines in the game are too much already. elder scrolls isn't a super hero setting where people can do weird super hero moves with their weapons. but sadly, the playerbase would screech if there were only spells.

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