Does anyone else hate BoS?

[Raiju]

You're a Blood DK. Why would you care about mitigation? Like, seriously, why?
The only boss where I had to care about the incoming damage was Blackhand Mythic and even that changed with the 5 ilvl upgrade.
For Blood DKs it's all about the damage.

Don't even try, will probs just get the thread locked.

[blackblade]

i thought that was for ground target abilities?

the ! stops toggle-able abilities from being untoggled.

[dr_AllCOM3]

I hate BoS. A 2min CD that relies on multistrike RNG? No, thanks.

I'm just trying to figure out why it's allowed to be so powerful for Blood.

It'll be nerfed in 6.2.

[Saybel]

I'm just trying to figure out why it's allowed to be so powerful for Blood.

Because then they'd actually have to buff the rest of our damaging skills to a respectable level then.

[Deleted]

Because our Damage is so weak without BoS.....NOT

[Raikh]

Because our Damage is so weak without BoS.....NOT

Blood dk dmg, especially ST is pretty pathetic without BoS. AoE is still okayish, but we would probably the dmg weakest tank overall without the strong BoS. The gain from it is massive and while blood dks currently make out quite a huge number of top tanklogs other tanks are except on a few bosses still relatively close.

Blood dks have no other means than BoS to transfer survivabilitty into dmg, especially since the BB nerf as DS beats 2xBB on ST.

Also the problem with BoS is that it needs to be worth it via normal means aka no icy runes glyphed CoI gapcloser to maintain it 100%. And if you don't use CoI BoS is currently just that, pretty powerful for dps and in a fine spot I would say. From that point on it allows you to sacrifice survability to maintain BoS 100% getting you huge amounts of dmg.

It'll likely be changed at some point, simply as the main "problem" will probably be that the investment for maintaining BoS goes down the more MS you have. If we get another 30 Ilvl or so in T18 and get even more MS we might reach a point where we barely have to use any CoI making it a even more brutal dps gain. On top of that if you can maintain BoS 100% without CoI you are likely overflowing with RP outside of BoS, which means that BoS no longer trades dmg with DC at certain points, as the rp would simply be wasted, making a part of BoS dmg completely free. With 100% MS and a certain amount of haste you could probably even build a few DCs in. Not that weÄre going to reach 100% anytime soon outside of trinket procs and special mechanics, but its definitely evolving even more with rising gear.

[Kawaii]

Because our Damage is so weak without BoS.....NOT

For single-target, non-BoS Blood sims about 30% below the 2nd worst tank (dps wise).

670 sims:




685 and 700 sims shows similar stats.


http://simulationcraft.org/ for more info.

[Saiyendra]

Let's not use the Blood default APL for anything other than laughs please

[Deleted]

Let's not use the Blood default APL for anything other than laughs please

Do you have a good blood APL with the BoS rotation? I can't find one.

[JebJoya]

Do you have a good blood APL with the BoS rotation? I can't find one.

Joyful - SimCraft seem to have one up on their site (only, seemingly, for ilvl700 sims) - haven't had a chance to read through it yet, but it seems to do decent damage - you can view it under http://www.simulationcraft.org/reports/Raid_T17M.html with the name Death_Knight_Blood_T17M_BoS.

[cujoe]

Because then they'd actually have to buff the rest of our damaging skills to a respectable level then.

You mean like they did with paladins after the removal of Alabaster Shield, Harsh Words and Seal of Truth as well as the Sera nerf? *cough*

I am actually pretty pessimistic and think they will just nerf its damage for blood substentially enough to not warrent its use anymore and we will all be forced to play defile and have piss poor damage without gazillions of adds.

[Raiju]

You mean like they did with paladins after the removal of Alabaster Shield, Harsh Words and Seal of Truth as well as the Sera nerf? *cough*

I am actually pretty pessimistic and think they will just nerf its damage for blood substentially enough to not warrent its use anymore and we will all be forced to play defile and have piss poor damage without gazillions of adds.

You mean like how paladins are among the other tanks after those removals and nerfs? Given paladins already have utility I'm not really seeing an issue.

Bloods breath is a substantial dps gain over without, so much so blood would be running far below the others without short of the fight having enough targets to try to catch the weaker tanks on aoe

[Saybel]

You mean like they did with paladins after the removal of Alabaster Shield, Harsh Words and Seal of Truth as well as the Sera nerf? *cough*

I am actually pretty pessimistic and think they will just nerf its damage for blood substentially enough to not warrent its use anymore and we will all be forced to play defile and have piss poor damage without gazillions of adds.

Paladins are more or less in-line with the other tanks (they're lower yeah, but not literally buried), infact all the tanks are fairly in-line now except Blood. Meanwhile the largest contribution of damage for Blood DKs on most given fights is breath, with it ranging from 25-45% damage generally.

And that's with it doing more damage than Death Strike for the runes you use to keep it up, if you literally shave 25% off all Blood logs you kind of get the point how bad the damage is.

Because our Damage is so weak without BoS.....NOT

We would be average on a total of 2 fight, maybe 3 fights without BoS. Guess which ones those are.

Joyful - SimCraft seem to have one up on their site (only, seemingly, for ilvl700 sims) - haven't had a chance to read through it yet, but it seems to do decent damage - you can view it under http://www.simulationcraft.org/reports/Raid_T17M.html with the name Death_Knight_Blood_T17M_BoS.

They should probably swap TTT for Vial, might yield a better result.

[cujoe]

Paladins are more or less in-line with the other tanks (they're lower yeah, but not literally buried), infact all the tanks are fairly in-line now except Blood

Well, if you play with HA/Sera/SoR you are OK damage wise, yes. If you want to play HS/DP/SoI on a single target fight with lots of magic damge, your damage will be shit. You literally have to take the max DPS spec as a paladin to be even with other tanks. So don't say they are fine damage wise.

Fact is Blizzard has a tendency to overnerf things and I just said that I expect the same to happen to BoS. I didn't say I like it or that bloods damage without BoS is anywhere near fine.

[Raiju]

Well, if you play with HA/Sera/SoR you are OK damage wise, yes. If you want to play HS/DP/SoI on a single target fight with lots of magic damge, your damage will be shit. You literally have to take the max DPS spec as a paladin to be even with other tanks. So don't say they are fine damage wise.

Fact is Blizzard has a tendency to overnerf things and I just said that I expect the same to happen to BoS. I didn't say I like it or that bloods damage without BoS is anywhere near fine.

So after your paladin got nerfed to went to dk and want BoS to remain 'OP' so that you can be OP?

Just roll a monk and be done with it.

[Saybel]

You literally have to take the max DPS spec as a paladin to be even with other tanks. So don't say they are fine damage wise.

*To be even with other tanks taking the max DPS spec.

[Deleted]

*To be even with other tanks taking the max DPS spec.

Nope. You have to play HA/Sera/SoR which means you're basically paper bar a few fights where it's actually suited to dealing with mechanics, and even then lolMonks, BoS DKs, and warriors will make you look like a fucking chump.

Play any sort of spec as Prot that actually smoothes damage taken properly and you might as well AFK because you sure as shit won't be doing any relevant DPS.

[cujoe]

So after your paladin got nerfed to went to dk and want BoS to remain 'OP' so that you can be OP?

Just roll a monk and be done with it.

When you assume, you are making an ass out of u and me.... Seriously dude, you didn't even care to armory...

And no, I want it to stay viable because BoS is a fun talent and the only reason I didn't switch to my paladin TWINK (that dinged 100 long after the pala nerfs happened btw), yet. Without it, DKs are quite dull to play.

[Saybel]

Nope. You have to play HA/Sera/SoR which means you're basically paper bar a few fights where it's actually suited to dealing with mechanics, and even then lolMonks, BoS DKs, and warriors will make you look like a fucking chump.

Play any sort of spec as Prot that actually smoothes damage taken properly and you might as well AFK because you sure as shit won't be doing any relevant DPS.

It's not exactly like playing BoS/CoI DK or ChiEx monk makes you an immortal god either.

[Deleted]

It's not exactly like playing BoS/CoI DK or ChiEx monk makes you an immortal god either.

Speaking as someone who plays both DK and Paladin and tanks with a monk that plays ChiEx on everything, it sure as shit comes at a lower relative cost than Sera/HA. Once you get to the sort of unbuffed multistrike that guys like Jellos and Troxism have there's barely a tradeoff in the first place because you only ever have to cast CoI if you get absurdly unlucky many times in a row.

I mean, it's not that I don't agree that baseline, Blood DK is awful, but BoS is too fucking good right now and needs a whack with the good ole' nerfbat. A hard one, at that. One tanking class should not be capable of 50k+ DPS on 3-target fights when every other class caps out in the low 40s with perfect play and the direct intervention of RNJesus - especially so not at the trivial cost to survivability that BoS comes with when you actually have enough MS gear to play it on progression content.