1. #1

    Is dk a good choice for melee in brf?

    as my title says Is dk a good choice for melee in brf? I played alot of dk in cata and mop, really liked frost. How are dk`s atm? Good enough for raiding(progression)

  2. #2
    Unholy DKs are at a very decent spot currently. I think warriors are better but we are a lot better than late MoP.
    Frost is a bit worse though.

  3. #3
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    i like how every week some1 come and ask how DK are... O_O

    play the melee u wan and that it... playing one class over an other WON'T change anything exept if youre in the 1% who play Mythic for world first ... other than that an class over an other change nothing and should't be an reason for an raid leader to refuse it.

    back to OP. Unholy have some very strong AOE and average single. frost is average both single and AOE. both of them have same survival. the only difference is the gamestyle. frost have stronger burst and openner, but overtime unholy will do more damage and beter AOE.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Heinouka View Post
    i like how every week some1 come and ask how DK are... O_O

    play the melee u wan and that it... playing one class over an other WON'T change anything exept if youre in the 1% who play Mythic for world first ... other than that an class over an other change nothing and should't be an reason for an raid leader to refuse it.

    back to OP. Unholy have some very strong AOE and average single. frost is average both single and AOE. both of them have same survival. the only difference is the gamestyle. frost have stronger burst and openner, but overtime unholy will do more damage and beter AOE.

    Well say that to death knight players who played 2hand frost in mop

  5. #5

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Heinouka View Post
    playing one class over an other WON'T change anything exept if youre in the 1% who play Mythic for world first ...
    So unless you are in top 1% you shouldn't care about min/maxing to help the raid out? lovely il go tell me RL that im gonna roll cloth and dw 2x lvl 10 wpns as UH.
    It's in the human nature to wanting to perform better than others. hence why people ask. it's not about "how are dks" in a thread like this, it more " can i compete with other melees on dmg meter in BRF or will i be dead last"
    Quote Originally Posted by Ulfric Trumpcloak View Post
    People on this site hate everything. Keep that in mind.

  7. #7
    Well to be fair, people who ask "How is X Class" obviously are not experienced enough to just look at Warcraftlogs or read a class forums. But to answer OP question DK is decent; it is not the best nor the worst. Overall i enjoy playing a DK quite a bit, really you only can play unholy (unless you play frost casually and it doesn't matter).
    I don't want to live on this planet anymore.

  8. #8
    The Patient majinbebi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunnydee View Post
    So unless you are in top 1% you shouldn't care about min/maxing to help the raid out? lovely il go tell me RL that im gonna roll cloth and dw 2x lvl 10 wpns as UH.
    It's in the human nature to wanting to perform better than others. hence why people ask. it's not about "how are dks" in a thread like this, it more " can i compete with other melees on dmg meter in BRF or will i be dead last"
    I think this. Many people, likely including the OP, don't want to be overperforming only to find themselves in the middle of the pack in DPS. If a DK's full potential is to be in the middle of the pack, and he plays well but is behind a mediocore warrior, rogue, or whatever other melee class he wants to compare himself to, he would probably be demoralized. Wouldn't we all?

  9. #9
    People aren't experienced enough to look at a bar graph?

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by foxes View Post
    People aren't experienced enough to look at a bar graph?
    Log's don't show things people actually want to see, such as guild preferences in recruitment, strength vs encounter mechanics, desirability for comps, and some other small things.

    Unholy right now is in a very good place, if you're going to roll Unholy you will be in a fairly well set off place in terms of desirability. We have strong presence on bosses even when not right on them, we are extremely strong on fights with heavy aoe (Kromog, Darmac, Thogar), have a fairly strong presence for single target if you can perform well with Breath (Gruul, Oregorger, Blast Furnace on the shammies, and Blackhand), and are very consistent dps on cleave fights (Flamebender, Hans/Frans, Iron Maidens). We bring really good utility in the form of Gorefiends/Grip, a battle rez, AMZ, and being a very passively quick moving melee dps. Especially after the 6.1 NP buff, Unholy's a sought after spec and the only other spec/class melee-wise I would say REALLY competes with us in terms of desirability is a rogue (and feral to an extent for their massive single target damage).

    Frost, don't touch it.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Maxweii View Post
    Log's don't show things people actually want to see, such as guild preferences in recruitment, strength vs encounter mechanics, desirability for comps, and some other small things.
    That's exactly what logs show. You can see how many dk's are parsing compared to other specs; You can specify a boss to see how each class ranks on each fight (and how many parses that class has on each fight); You can click on a parse to see what else was in the raid group when they killed it; Really logs show everything you could ask for. I don't understand why we as a community don't try point people towards the more objective info. If someone (like the OP) is willing to post on a forum I generally assume they are willing to work for their answers. Just giving them your opinion (though you are correct) doesn't encourage them to learn why DKs are in a good place as melee or even really prove they are in a good place. Logs do however answer the OP's question in the most accurate and easy to understand way.

    Someone said it earlier in the post but every week we have the same threads pop up. People can do a tiny amount of research on their own and if they don't why spend time helping and defending them if they show that they aren't actually going to work for the things you are saying?
    Last edited by foxes; 2015-03-29 at 07:43 PM. Reason: typing errors

  12. #12
    Unless you're doing Mythic progression, doesn't really matter what you play imo
    I have a Rhok'delar, jelly?

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by foxes View Post
    That's exactly what logs show. You can see how many dk's are parsing compared to other specs; You can specify a boss to see how each class ranks on each fight (and how many parses that class has on each fight); You can click on a parse to see what else was in the raid group when they killed it; Really logs show everything you could ask for. I don't understand why we as a community don't try point people towards the more objective info. If someone (like the OP) is willing to post on a forum I generally assume they are willing to work for their answers. Just giving them your opinion (though you are correct) doesn't encourage them to learn why DKs are in a good place as melee or even really prove they are in a good place. Logs do however answer the OP's question in the most accurate and easy to understand way.

    Someone said it earlier in the post but every week we have the same threads pop up. People can do a tiny amount of research on their own and if they don't why spend time helping and defending them if they show that they aren't actually going to work for the things you are saying?
    So let's take Kromog Mythic as an example, where Unholy is by large the top class/spec there and Feral is one of the lowest there.
    Unholy ranks high on that fight and looks so "good" because our class mechanics are just perfect for aoeing the hands, on my personal work on him I can easily break 100k dps depending on the luck I have with my MS's/crits on the hands. Feral, has pretty much non existant aoe, weather or not it's worth the energy to aoe the nearby hands isn't known to me but in terms of single target damage on the hands the only thing that might come close is arcane if they don't arcane explosion and instead they use single target on their hand alone.

    That's one aspect of the fight, and that aspect alone makes Unholy look just plain amazing there. However there's such a thing as overkill, and aoeing down the hands too fast resulting in deaths from the rampage (w.e it is his ability is called). The other very important part about this fight is the stone pillar damage, something Unholy doesn't have a super powerful kit for. We have decent damage on them but nothing to show off with. It depends on the log, but in general Feral druids will easily do much more damage on the Pillars as well as on Kromog.
    The reason we look good though? Aoe on the hands, and that alone.

    So yeah Unholy at a glance looks like it's great for the fight, but when you weigh it's weaknesses along with it's strengths fight per fight we are pretty much easily described as an above average class.


    Logs are not a end all showing of what guilds do. Guild K could allow their Balance Druid on Darmac to take down all the spears, while Guild R has a Shadow Priest do it. I would say the only thing logs are good for in a general sense is seeing the amount of parses, which even then is a very rough/broad viewing of what's happening.


    From what I can see I didn't give my opinion about where we are, I gave an analysis of our strengths in BRF and why they are desirable. I didn't exaggerate them, provided example of bosses where such strengths are used, and gave representation of other classes in whom we compete with in worth as a melee. That's the best way to do it, explain why a spec is strong, provide examples, and be unbiased by representing other strong classes. Not giving a link and saying go research it yourself, because digging through logs is not the best way to go about it as well as being a lengthy process.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Alphabrain View Post
    Unless you're doing Mythic progression, doesn't really matter what you play imo
    This too, I strongly support play what you enjoy.

  14. #14
    But the logs show everything you just said and they show it with graphs and pictures. We delivered the same information in different ways. I agree your method is great as a starting point but almost the exact same post can be found in 2 other threads on the first page. I believe the best way to learn is to research. You can look at logs for 15 minutes and draw all the conclusions you posted. If that's lengthy then waiting for forum posts can be an eternity.

    I'm just more of the mindset of "teaching the man to fish." Your method isn't wrong, I just think that a lot can be said with a simple link to logs. Sure they aren't the end all be all and you can say they misrepresent data and that would be true if their sample size was 10. Luckily for the WoW community its more than that and it paints a very accurate picture of where we stand.

    Its even more confusing that after defending and arguing for someone who isn't even in the argument you are now trying to discredit logs? Maybe I'm missing something or misunderstanding you. From where I sit this was a redundant thread and honestly logs don't need me to defend them.

    Good luck on your crusade to give anecdotal evidence as gospel over logs.
    Last edited by foxes; 2015-03-29 at 08:50 PM. Reason: added more sarcasm

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Heinouka View Post
    frost is average both single and AOE
    My god, if you think frost is average I'd hate to see your idea of subpar.

  16. #16
    Pandaren Monk
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    Blizzard puts effort into having all their classes and specs be usable at all times. Don't base your classchoice on one tier of raiding, that's idiotic.\

    And yes, they're fine. They've been fine for a very long time.

  17. #17
    There is so much misinformation here. Yikes.

    My god, if you think frost is average I'd hate to see your idea of subpar.
    ^ This person has the right idea.

    Frost is not, "average". Frost is at the very bottom, bleeding on the floor. Don't try to argue with that. Parses support it, sims support it, most credible DKs support it, and my own personal experience in a mythic raid setting supports it. Frost is not viable, at all. Not 2H. Not DW.

    Frost is okay if you are just questing and doing LFR.

    Unholy, on the other hand, is doing well. Not destroying everyone, but well.

  18. #18
    DKs are fun.

    Play one. Unless you don't like it.

  19. #19
    Frost is horrible i agree althogh it meets the min DPS req. for enrage hence the no buffs to it. in terms of stat scalling it amazing because ALL of them are shit and does nothing significant and i lost hope how it can be fixed(at some point i suspect a tank can surpass it DPS)

    As for UH compared to other melees ( because #mages masterace).

    Pure single target+stationary cleaving: above average.
    Short aoe: below avg.
    Longer aoe+movement/range cleaving: superior
    100 yard aoe aka kromog's hands: Get rekt.
    Last edited by Jackkernaut; 2015-04-01 at 03:51 AM.

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