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  1. #1

    Solace Vs. Mindbender (Disc)

    In trying to find an answer as to which returns more mana, I did some math and these are the results. I see a lot of people saying Mindbender does because of the haste breakpoints on the Mindbender's autos.


    Mindbender;
    haste% #attacks mp5
    0 14 1505
    5 15 1575
    12.5 16 1680
    20 17 1785
    27.5 18 1890
    35 19 1995
    42.5 20 2100
    50 21 2205

    This is a chart I've seen posted around here which has been quoted numerous times. This has been credited to Redsparowe and I believe it's flawed. Standing idly at a training dummy, I have 8.37% haste; now indicated by the chart above, I should get 15 attacks from my Mindbender which would result in 18K mana - 15*(160k*.0075)=18,000. What actually happens is that while remaining at 8.37% haste, I get 16.8K mana. 16,800/1,200=14 - my Mindbender is getting 14 auto attacks in, which indicated by the chart above, would mean that I have 0% haste. With Borrowed Time active throughout the duration of my Mindbender, I now sit at 11.71% haste. Now once again, according to the chart, I should see 15 autos which would result in 18K mana; the problem is I get 21,600 mana back with 18 autos. Now with PI and BT on, I get 39.64% haste which should give me 19 autos, but I get 22 and receive 26,400 mana.

    Now under the ideal circumstances and using a 2 minute window, we can test the actual returns of Mindbender and compare them to the returns of Solace. In a 2 minute setting - and note, I am using 2 minutes to allow Mindbender to benefit from PI+BT for the first cast and then just BT for the second. The results are the following:

    Solace:
    2%*160,000=3,200 Mana returned per cast
    60 seconds/10 second CD = 6 casts/minute
    3,200*6=19,200 mana returned per minute
    19,200*2 minutes = 38,400 mana returned over 2 minutes

    TL;DR: Solace returns 38,400 mana over 2 minutes

    Mindbender:
    0.75% Mana returned per swing

    First Mindbender:
    Haste = 39.64% (BT and PI)
    # of auto attacks = 22
    22*(0.0075*160,000)=26,400

    Second Mindbender: (BT)
    Haste = 11.71%
    # of auto attacks = 18
    18*(0.0075*160,000)=21,600

    TL;DR: Mindbender returns 48,000 mana over 2 minutes.

    Now on just this basis alone, Mindbender outperforms Solace easily. Offering almost 10K mana more per 2 minutes. But this is where the issue comes into play. Taking Mindbender drastically alters the way in which we get Evangelism stacks and drastically increases the cost. Below is assuming that you are using Penance offensively and using Solace on CD to generate 5 stacks of Evangelism:

    Cost Spell Evangelism
    2304 Penance 2
    0 Solace 3
    0 Solace 4
    0 Solace 5

    So, we spend 2,304 mana to get a 5 stack of Evangelism Archangel. This equates to 460.8 mana spent per stack.

    Now let's look at this assuming we take Mindbender and are using Penance offensively.

    Cost Spell Evangelism
    2304 Penance 2
    2304 Penance 4
    1600 Holy Fire 5

    In this scenario, we spend 6,208 mana to get a 5 stack Evangelism Archangel. This equates to 1,241.6 mana spent per stack.

    Now within this 30 second window, we can see that it costs 3,904 mana more to get our AA. This will happen 2 times within a 60 second window and 4 times within a 2 minute window. 3,904*4=15,616 mana. Within this 120 second window, we spend an extra 15,616 mana to get our 5 stacked AA using Mindbender as opposed to using Solace. Remember the difference between Mindbender and Solace in terms of mana gained within a 120 second window was 9,600. So the extra 9.600 mana we gain by using Mindbender over Solace is more than spent when it comes to generating our 5 stacked AA.

    Now what I'm wondering is this: does anyone see anything wrong with this that I'm missing? I've seen a lot of people throw out that Mindbender is better than Solace - and it could possibly be at the absolute highest attacks per second for a pet (Google wasn't turning up any results) - but the additional cost of taking Mindbender over Solace just doesn't seem worth it.

    *Note - MMO won't let me post my armory since I'm new. If anyone really wants to know, search Nevren on Stormreaver.

  2. #2
    Pretty sure the reason why people say it's better is because you have more globals to cast shields in the fight if you don't have to cast solace all the time.

    The mana thing is not really the major factor.

  3. #3
    But then why do the majority of the top 10 on Warcraft Logs not take Mindbender?
    Last edited by Alithvia; 2015-04-06 at 06:47 AM.

  4. #4
    Deleted
    I'm a gnome

    The values were done for my character, the ratios between mindbender and solace should stay the same though (eg, they should still be equal at 12.5% haste and both used perfectly on CD.

    The numbers do not account for mana saved by replacing holy fire although the maths is added in my original post with the context of that chart.

    EDIT;
    also the reason a lot of top end disc priests are going mindbender is 2 fold;
    1) solace consumes a lot of GCDs to gain mana, GCDs which could be spent on higher throughput spells
    2) with 2 set and some offensive penance you don't need to holy fire for evangelism, which negates the mana savings from taking solace.


    Not sure how you're calculating the mana returns from mindbender but I'm just not seeing those values at all :/
    Last edited by mmocc73a7e76d4; 2015-04-06 at 07:04 AM.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Redsparowe View Post
    also the reason a lot of top end disc priests are going mindbender is 2 fold;
    1) solace consumes a lot of GCDs to gain mana, GCDs which could be spent on higher throughput spells
    2) with 2 set and some offensive penance you don't need to holy fire for evangelism, which negates the mana savings from taking solace
    I can see the GCD argument making sense, but that still leads me to question why only a few of the top 10 actually use Mindbender. As for the not needing Holy Fire, using a third Penance - both offensive or defensive - or even a Smite would put the mana difference even further.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Redsparowe View Post


    Not sure how you're calculating the mana returns from mindbender but I'm just not seeing those values at all :/
    0.75% of maximum mana is returned when the Mindbender autos. As a Gnome, I imagine you're getting 1,260 mana back per swing.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Alithvia View Post
    But then why do the majority of the top 10 on Warcraft Logs not take Mindbender?
    Uh, quite a few of them do.

    Last I was stalking their logs, at least 7 of them out of 10 did on most fights.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Alithvia View Post
    I can see the GCD argument making sense, but that still leads me to question why only a few of the top 10 actually use Mindbender. As for the not needing Holy Fire, using a third Penance - both offensive or defensive - or even a Smite would put the mana difference even further.
    While on the whole Penance's mana cost is higher than Holy Fire, Penance's MPS is way lower than Holy Fire unless you cancel it early.

    You can't base mana cost based on the spell cost itself, you need to divide it by the cast/channel time as well if it's higher than a GCD.

    In this case, Penance has double the channel time of that of a GCD, so it's effective mana cost should be halved.

    Finally, your assumptions are incredibly flawed - Solace users still attempt to Penance on CD, so while they don't need to Penance for Evangelism, it's still part of their mana consumption which you omitted.
    Last edited by PosPosPos; 2015-04-06 at 07:30 AM.
    "My successes are my own, but my failures are due to extremist leftist liberals" - Party of Personal Responsibility

    Prediction for the future

  7. #7
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Alithvia View Post
    I can see the GCD argument making sense, but that still leads me to question why only a few of the top 10 actually use Mindbender. As for the not needing Holy Fire, using a third Penance - both offensive or defensive - or even a Smite would put the mana difference even further.

    - - - Updated - - -



    0.75% of maximum mana is returned when the Mindbender autos. As a Gnome, I imagine you're getting 1,260 mana back per swing.
    Further in favour of mindbender? Doesn't that answer your own question as to why top logs aren't using solace? (EDIT; your original post asked why more priests weren't using solace!)
    By using penance for evang instead of holy fire you no longer gain that 'perk' of solace, and solace simply becomes a 10sec CD mana return with some minor healing competent. Without 2pc you're required to use holy fire if you want 5 evang stacks, so by making the assumption that holy fire will always be cast on CD, taking solace you are also adding in the mana saved by casting 'free' holy fires. Once you remove the assumption that you will be casting holy fire (ie, because you can get evang stacks from penance, which you want to cast for hps purposes) then you're no longer getting the added benefit of free holy fires. You could say you still have a 'free' GCD every 10sec but in all honestly you could just do nothing once every 10sec with mindbender for the same effect.

    I did a double check of my chart to make sure a) I wasn't crazy b) nothing had changed since 6.1.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_PX...ature=youtu.be (currently uploading)
    (can't watch the video? The chart is still accurate, 0% haste is 14 hits, 12.5% haste is 16 hits etc)

    Just for clarity here's my initital post, I know the chart has been copy pasted a few times so I'm not sure the place you found it had the post with further notes on the subject;
    http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...6#post32456436

    I'd feel quite confident at this point in saying mindbender is nearly always the correct option.
    I'd make this statement with a couple of assumptions;
    A priest capable of executing perfect solace likely has a gear level that will include 2set and enough haste to boost mindbender past 12.5% haste (where the raw mana returns are equal to solace before involving holy fire).
    A priest without the gear level for mindbender to overtake solace is probably not capable of using solace often enough to make up for the difference in mana returns, (1 GCD late and it's already less mp5 than mindbender with 0 haste, not including holy fire).
    The rest of the priests will probably be the type to find out themselves or by researching forums (such as this thread!), but I'd assume the above reasons are a large factor to why a lot of quick replies will be 'just take mindbender'.
    Last edited by mmocc73a7e76d4; 2015-04-06 at 07:34 AM.

  8. #8
    The reason that I take mindbender isn't really for the sake of mana, it's for its simplicity. Using mindbender means you don't have to delay shielding someone so that you can cast solace, which I found I was doing a lot of the time. I would sit on solace when there was high raid damage and for almost the entire duration of power infusion because I felt I was wasting a GCD in a situation where casting shield of prayer of healing was much more effective. Plus mindbender does more damage than solace, albeit not much more, but still extra damage that comes at a lot less work than solace.

    I'm currently rank 10 on Warcraftlogs, #3 US so I'm not just some random person spouting out my opinion. I posted because earlier people were referencing top 10 priests using mindbender.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Redsparowe View Post
    Further in favour of mindbender? Doesn't that answer your own question as to why top logs aren't using solace? (EDIT; your original post asked why more priests weren't using solace!)
    By using penance for evang instead of holy fire you no longer gain that 'perk' of solace, and solace simply becomes a 10sec CD mana return with some minor healing competent. Without 2pc you're required to use holy fire if you want 5 evang stacks, so by making the assumption that holy fire will always be cast on CD, taking solace you are also adding in the mana saved by casting 'free' holy fires. Once you remove the assumption that you will be casting holy fire (ie, because you can get evang stacks from penance, which you want to cast for hps purposes) then you're no longer getting the added benefit of free holy fires. You could say you still have a 'free' GCD every 10sec but in all honestly you could just do nothing once every 10sec with mindbender for the same effect.

    I did a double check of my chart to make sure a) I wasn't crazy b) nothing had changed since 6.1.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_PX...ature=youtu.be (currently uploading)

    Just for clarity here's my initital post, I know the chart has been copy pasted a few times so I'm not sure the place you found it had the post with further notes on the subject;
    http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...6#post32456436

    I'd feel quite confident at this point in saying mindbender is nearly always the correct option.
    I'd make this statement with a couple of assumptions;
    A priest capable of executing perfect solace likely has a gear level that will include 2set and enough haste to boost mindbender past 12.5% haste (where the raw mana returns are equal to solace before involving holy fire).
    A priest without the gear level for mindbender to overtake solace is probably not capable of using solace often enough to make up for the difference in mana returns, (1 GCD late and it's already less mp5 than mindbender with 0 haste, not including holy fire).
    The rest of the priests will probably be the type to find out themselves or by researching forums (such as this thread!), but I'd assume the above reasons are a large factor to why a lot of quick replies will be 'just take mindbender'.
    Adding on to this post, even if one is the most skilled and optimized disc player, it's still very possible to miss ~1 second on Solace because of GCD limitations - there are many occasions where Solace has <1 second left on its cooldown - are you going to waste precious time waiting for that <1 second or cast PW:S/Cascade/EAA PoH/defensive Penance etc and forgo a part of Solace's uptime? Obviously the right answer in most situations is to keep casting, unless there are absolutely no damage going out within the next 15 seconds or so(extremely unlikely especially in Mythic).

    If someone makes the claim he/she can consistently use Solace exactly as when it comes off CD >90% of the time without waiting unnecessarily for the spell to come off CD, I am calling bullshit and asking for supporting logs.
    "My successes are my own, but my failures are due to extremist leftist liberals" - Party of Personal Responsibility

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  10. #10
    Notspicie, I would like your opinion on this topic. I can see the argument for the extra available GCDs by taking Mindbender, but then why do I see the #1 logs for Gruul, Oregorger, and Blast Furnace - I didn't look at every fight and every high parsing log - taking Solace? And forgive my ignorance, but I am unaware if those logs show the fight being underhealed to achieve a rank 1.

    Red, I wish I could post a link but this account is too new. I have a screenshot of mana returned showing 16.8K and Mindbender is returning 1.2K/swing. I have 8.37% haste, why am I not getting 18K mana?

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Alithvia View Post
    Notspicie, I would like your opinion on this topic. I can see the argument for the extra available GCDs by taking Mindbender, but then why do I see the #1 logs for Gruul, Oregorger, and Blast Furnace - I didn't look at every fight and every high parsing log - taking Solace? And forgive my ignorance, but I am unaware if those logs show the fight being underhealed to achieve a rank 1.
    Because both options are completely viable and depends on your play style. If you want to run mindbender you have to offensive penance 2/3 casts which is going to net you almost no healing because atonement is complete dog shit. On the other hand, by running solace you never have to offensive penance and you don't even need to penance on cool down to hit 5 stacks of evangelism before archangel comes off cooldown. The healing provided by the defensive penances and the healing from solace, which even though I just said atonement is dogshit, mitigates the extra gcds provided from mind bender. Solace usually does a decent amount of healing, general 2-5% of overall, which is somehow more than atonement does on bosses I have done on heroic for sale runs, probably because smite and holy fire hit for nothing, and same with offensive penancing.

    All in all, you can choose either talent that you feel more comfortable with, if someone tells you you're shit because you choose solace they are wrong, likewise for mindbender. Personally healing as disc is a lot of rng with shields since we aren't affected as much by overhealing. So similarly to dps logs where someone has 50% crit and another person has 15% the difference in hps can largely be attributed to rng as well as gaps in skill but, in my opinion, moreso to rng. On top of that there is no way, at least that I know of, to see crit % or multistrike % on shields other than looking at average hits but that is affected by the damage on the raid hitting your shields. I guess you could look at number of shield casts, number of hits, and average hit to guesstimate the relative power of the shields to another log, but that is way too much work for me.

    I'm dragging on at this point, but for example of the above, although it is no longer relevant, at the beginning of the tier I did something around 83k on heroic Kromog, this is pre-nerf, and completely dominated the next priest below me by a large margin. I don't think I did something crazy that no one else was doing to get such a high parse, I think I had good rng on the pull. This is no longer really relevant because people do the heroic strat with no tanks so that the boss breaths on the raid the entire time.

    In conclusion, excuse my random tangents, either solace or mindbender is fine in my opinion and should be your decision based on your playstyle. Also take rank 1st with a grain of salt and don't assume a causal relationship between a talent and good rng. Unless someone gets a bunch of rank 1s using spirit shell, that would be amazing.

    PS: excuse any typing errors, I'm on my phone, it's 4:30 am, and I have a cold.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Notspicie View Post
    Because both options are completely viable and depends on your play style. If you want to run mindbender you have to offensive penance 2/3 casts which is going to net you almost no healing because atonement is complete dog shit. On the other hand, by running solace you never have to offensive penance and you don't even need to penance on cool down to hit 5 stacks of evangelism before archangel comes off cooldown. The healing provided by the defensive penances and the healing from solace, which even though I just said atonement is dogshit, mitigates the extra gcds provided from mind bender. Solace usually does a decent amount of healing, general 2-5% of overall, which is somehow more than atonement does on bosses I have done on heroic for sale runs, probably because smite and holy fire hit for nothing, and same with offensive penancing.
    You do realize that Solace does only ~20% more damage(and thus healing) than Holy Fire?

    If Solace accounts for 5% of your total healing, then Holy Fire would be ~4%.

    2 ticks of offensive Penance also outheals Solace + dot, so I am certain you are just pulling numbers out of your ass even though you didn't do your due research/mathcrafting.

    Finally, defensive Penance isn't necessarily usable all the time when Penance comes off CD, or are you insinuating your guild's throughput healers are so bad that you can pull off a low overheal defensive Penance all the time?

    Having good parses/good performance in general doesn't give you full rein to spout unsupported bullshit, if anything, it should compel you to take more responsibility about your claims because what you say have more weight and can influence other players as a role model - shame on you.
    Last edited by PosPosPos; 2015-04-06 at 09:13 AM. Reason: corrected Solace vs Holy Fire from ~15% to a more accurate ~20%
    "My successes are my own, but my failures are due to extremist leftist liberals" - Party of Personal Responsibility

    Prediction for the future

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by PosPosPos View Post
    You do realize that Solace does only ~20% more damage(and thus healing) than Holy Fire?

    If Solace accounts for 5% of your total healing, then Holy Fire would be ~4%.

    2 ticks of offensive Penance also outheals Solace + dot, so I am certain you are just pulling numbers out of your ass even though you didn't do your due research/mathcrafting.

    Finally, defensive Penance isn't necessarily usable all the time when Penance comes off CD, or are you insinuating your guild's throughput healers are so bad that you can pull off a low overheal defensive Penance all the time?

    Having good parses/good performance in general doesn't give you full rein to spout unsupported bullshit, if anything, it should compel you to take more responsibility about your claims because what you say have more weight and can influence other players as a role model - shame on you.
    LOL this is why I never post. No, I don't sit around theorycrafting or number crunching for a video game. I play this game for fun. I rerolled to discipline at the start of WoD, didn't ask anyone for advice, and did what felt comfortable to me. Obviously it has worked out throughput wise. Anyway, I was trying to provide some friendly advice based on what I have noticed throughout this tier. However, please continue to berate me for trying to help and keep on being the pretentious asshole you are and I will continue to laugh at almost every post you make on these forums.

    I'll just go ahead and make your next argument: I suck and am getting carried by gear.

    PosPosPos is the king of the basement dwelling gamers that waves around his calculator and shoves his pedantic opinions in your face so that anyone that ever asks for help and anyone that tries to help, even if they may not be completely correct, feels like shit for even bothering.

    Anyway, this is probably going to get deleted and I'm going to get banned or something for being an asshole, k bai

    Infracted, no need to insult others to make a point
    Last edited by mmocc73a7e76d4; 2015-04-06 at 05:51 PM.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Notspicie View Post
    LOL this is why I never post. No, I don't sit around theorycrafting or number crunching for a video game. I play this game for fun. I rerolled to discipline at the start of WoD, didn't ask anyone for advice, and did what felt comfortable to me. Obviously it has worked out throughput wise. Anyway, I was trying to provide some friendly advice based on what I have noticed throughout this tier. However, please continue to berate me for trying to help and keep on being the pretentious asshole you are and I will continue to laugh at almost every post you make on these forums.

    I'll just go ahead and make your next argument: I suck and am getting carried by gear.

    PosPosPos is the king of the basement dwelling gamers that waves around his calculator and shoves his pedantic opinions in your face so that anyone that ever asks for help and anyone that tries to help, even if they may not be completely correct, feels like shit for even bothering.

    Anyway, this is probably going to get deleted and I'm going to get banned or something for being an asshole, k bai
    You come into a theorycrafting forum and thread, where people are discussing how to get the utmost out of their class and you think that "I play for fun and since I have logs where I do well, everything works" holds up? jesus christ.
    Last edited by spuicks; 2015-04-06 at 03:39 PM.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Notspicie View Post
    LOL this is why I never post. No, I don't sit around theorycrafting or number crunching for a video game. I play this game for fun. I rerolled to discipline at the start of WoD, didn't ask anyone for advice, and did what felt comfortable to me. Obviously it has worked out throughput wise. Anyway, I was trying to provide some friendly advice based on what I have noticed throughout this tier. However, please continue to berate me for trying to help and keep on being the pretentious asshole you are and I will continue to laugh at almost every post you make on these forums.

    I'll just go ahead and make your next argument: I suck and am getting carried by gear.

    PosPosPos is the king of the basement dwelling gamers that waves around his calculator and shoves his pedantic opinions in your face so that anyone that ever asks for help and anyone that tries to help, even if they may not be completely correct, feels like shit for even bothering.

    Anyway, this is probably going to get deleted and I'm going to get banned or something for being an asshole, k bai
    If you don't have any interest in contributing to the thread about theory crafting or actually presenting an argument, you're just trolling then.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Notspicie View Post
    LOL this is why I never post. No, I don't sit around theorycrafting or number crunching for a video game. I play this game for fun. I rerolled to discipline at the start of WoD, didn't ask anyone for advice, and did what felt comfortable to me. Obviously it has worked out throughput wise. Anyway, I was trying to provide some friendly advice based on what I have noticed throughout this tier. However, please continue to berate me for trying to help and keep on being the pretentious asshole you are and I will continue to laugh at almost every post you make on these forums.

    I'll just go ahead and make your next argument: I suck and am getting carried by gear.

    PosPosPos is the king of the basement dwelling gamers that waves around his calculator and shoves his pedantic opinions in your face so that anyone that ever asks for help and anyone that tries to help, even if they may not be completely correct, feels like shit for even bothering.

    Anyway, this is probably going to get deleted and I'm going to get banned or something for being an asshole, k bai
    If you aren't going to number crunch in a number crunching thread, and instead resort to your obviously flawed gut feeling/childish unsupported insults, why are you even wasting your time here then?

    Begone and good riddance.

    P.S.

    Spellpower scalings for HF/Solace/Penance:

    167.445% sp - holy fire
    203.37% sp - solace
    240% sp - penance 2 ticks

    All 3 are done in the span of 1 GCD, so their execution times are equal.
    "My successes are my own, but my failures are due to extremist leftist liberals" - Party of Personal Responsibility

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  17. #17
    Mechagnome Pearl1717's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Notspicie View Post
    LOL this is why I never post. No, I don't sit around theorycrafting or number crunching for a video game. I play this game for fun. I rerolled to discipline at the start of WoD, didn't ask anyone for advice, and did what felt comfortable to me. Obviously it has worked out throughput wise. Anyway, I was trying to provide some friendly advice based on what I have noticed throughout this tier. However, please continue to berate me for trying to help and keep on being the pretentious asshole you are and I will continue to laugh at almost every post you make on these forums.

    I'll just go ahead and make your next argument: I suck and am getting carried by gear.

    PosPosPos is the king of the basement dwelling gamers that waves around his calculator and shoves his pedantic opinions in your face so that anyone that ever asks for help and anyone that tries to help, even if they may not be completely correct, feels like shit for even bothering.

    Anyway, this is probably going to get deleted and I'm going to get banned or something for being an asshole, k bai

    Glad someone finally said it lol
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  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Pearl1717 View Post
    Glad someone finally said it lol
    Oh of course, the other "I parse 99 percentiles so my word is law" specimen.

    Care to actually contribute to the discussion instead of pretending your 99 percentiles means you get to spout any lie you want? Or is it going to be the ever-classy "I play this game for fun" comeback?
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  19. #19
    Mechagnome Pearl1717's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PosPosPos View Post
    Oh of course, the other "I parse 99 percentiles so my word is law" specimen.
    Except I'm always up to new ideas, and will try anything out if it means performing better. I don't think I'm that great, I just consistently parse well. You, on the other hand, think that your way is always correct, and that if something comes out in theorycrafting, it must be true in actual gameplay.

    I'm one of the people that says that MB and solace are both viable, because they both are. I've been testing it out, and will continue to do so. But so far, I've seen a negligible hps difference between taking MB and offensively penancing, and taking solace and defensively penancing. The extra shield or two that you would squeeze in from taking MB is no different than the healing you would do with penance and solace.

    However, as I said in another post, technically MB will provide more mana over solace. But if you have no mana issues, like most disc priests, than this is a nonissue. It comes down to whether you would rather shield more with MB, or be able to use defensive penance more with Solace. For most fights, I prefer the latter.

    MB does have its place, in fights where all you do is shield spam (gruul or oregorger are good examples of this) MB is preferred. But in any fight where you don't constantly need to shield the raid, and where defensive penance will contribute a significant amount of healing, imo solace is preferred.


    Quote Originally Posted by PosPosPos View Post
    Care to actually contribute to the discussion instead of pretending your 99 percentiles means you get to spout any lie you want?
    Regardless, I think anyone who parses high does have a say (you included) and whatever we say is not sprouting some lie because we are all obviously doing something correct. Not to sound arrogant (although it'll probably come off that way), I'm ranked 7th world (1st for ilvl bracket, granted its for heroic) so when people say "top disc priests are using this or that," I'm obviously up there as one of them. And I've got there by using solace almost the entire time. But, other people are doing well with MB. Thats because they are both viable. Get off your high horse thinking that your way is always the right way.
    Last edited by Pearl1717; 2015-04-06 at 06:21 PM.
    Arthas Logs] | Azgalor Logs | Twitch | Pearl91#1607
    "I am a chemical engineer. To save time, lets just assume that I am never wrong."

  20. #20
    Deleted
    There's good theorycrafting to be done in this thread, people can have valid opinions and anecdotes without resorting to insults or flaming. Stay on topic, stay constructive.

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