LF Mythic Ret's Thoughts

[Astynax]

I hav a 690 ret / 689 prot offtank main and 5/10 in Mythic BRF now

Throughout BRF I felt extremely at the mercy of RNG for my DPS from HoW procs, Exo procs, EDS procs etc on top of our T17 procs.

Looking at the rest of the Mythic encounters w Kromog having to go cross court to hit stone pillars without instant or low CD gap closers, Thogar cannon fire rings & BH being extremely melee unfriendly, I dont feel like we're in a good spot. I also have a 690 warlock alt and our current roster currently has no lock - should I make the switch?

Warlock would be much easier and higher DPS on Thogar/BF, easier to hit stone pillars and AoE grasping hands on Kromog, and much better for BH. I have more fun on my pally but feel like it's the weaker pick and after some low numbers in mythic progression am having less fun, especially when procs dont work in my favor, where other casses can rely more on rotation/abilities which can be planned to maintain performance.

Are you finding your DPS not where you're used to be? I'm usually the middle top of the DPS group but since getting further into Mythic have dropped near the bottom.
Gruul - taking DP with T17, procs can swing my dps ~5k single target
Ore - have long distances to run during roll to hit crates and get back into position where my lock can just move a little and maintain damage
Hans/Frans - movement issues, no leap or gap closers to help move from belts to get to the open slot - just run
Flame - 4x fire chains all around the boss + flame on the ground very punishing on positioning. Can just hit the edges and cleave what I can instead of standing in closer in the middle to hit everything all the time
Darmac - AoE unreliable waiting on EDS procs otherwise have to build up HP again and by that time adds may be already dead. Warlock can just triple chaos wave everytime

How are you finding BRF as you go? Would you reroll to ranged?

[Filfa]

Very very RNG, you'll find other classes have spammable AoE while we sit here building points or waiting for RNG to kick in.

I've rerolled rogue for now, we'll see what comes in 6.1 before I make a final verdict (pun intended)

[threads]

On Kromog you should just be on the first one that pops up and you can cleave off to the nearest pillar + boss pretty easily. Thogar I feel like is one of our best fights tbh, the rings are never a problem unless your tank's dumb.

I mostly agree with the other fights. Very RNG with relying on procs to happen in very small window where adds spawn / single target swinging a lot. Just not a good tier for ret.

Whether or not you reroll is up to you though.

[Rawrzillasor]

I'm in almost the same situation. 692 ret/ 690 prot and 5/10 mythic. Starting on kromog it was clear to our comp how needed a boomkin was since we has none. I am making the switch over to boomkin and currently 682. Feels much more consistent DPS and well.... Its a boomkin which have better burst and better aoe .

[Deleted]

I hav a 690 ret / 689 prot offtank (4th in our roster) main and 5/10 in Mythic BRF now

Throughout BRF I felt extremely at the mercy of RNG for my DPS from HoW procs, Exo procs, EDS procs etc on top of our T17 procs.

Looking at the rest of the Mythic encounters w Kromog having to go cross court to hit stone pillars without instant or low CD gap closers, Thogar cannon fire rings & BH being extremely melee unfriendly, I dont feel like we're in a good spot. I also have a 688 warlock alt and our current roster currently has no lock - should I make the switch?

Warlock would be much easier and higher DPS on Thogar/BF, easier to hit stone pillars and AoE grasping hands on Kromog, and much better for BH. I have more fun on my pally but feel like it's the weaker pick and after some low numbers in mythic progression am having less fun, especially when procs dont work in my favor, where other casses can rely more on rotation/abilities which can be planned to maintain performance.

Are you finding your DPS not where you're used to be? I'm usually the middle top of the DPS group but since getting further into Mythic have dropped near the bottom.
Gruul - taking DP with T17, procs can swing my dps ~5k single target
Ore - have long distances to run during roll to hit crates and get back into position where my lock can just move a little and maintain damage
Hans/Frans - movement issues, no leap or gap closers to help move from belts to get to the open slot - just run
Flame - 4x fire chains all around the boss + flame on the ground very punishing on positioning. Can just hit the edges and cleave what I can instead of standing in closer in the middle to hit everything all the time
Darmac - AoE unreliable waiting on EDS procs otherwise have to build up HP again and by that time adds may be already dead. Warlock can just triple chaos wave everytime

How are you finding BRF as you go? Would you reroll to ranged?

Whilst the rng nature of the spec is very real, it is not healthy to focus too much on it or it becomes an excuse for poor play. Onto some more specifics:

There is a very short cd gap closer for Kromog. I use LAotL almost excusively this tier and it is plenty for catapulting you from one extreme pillar to the other before the shout goes out. I do an edge pillar and have never had trouble running to the other end in plenty of time using this.

Maybe your RL/tanks are doing Thogar badly - there is no problem for melee on Thogar; it's an awesome fight for us. You stand between the rings during the 'boomers'. The procs are another issue; when they don't occur during AoE burst parts of the fight then you're screwed. But does that screw your raid? No, because they will still die - who really cares who does the damage as long as the boss dies?

Flamebender - you need to switch targets anyway to ensure they are cleaved down roughly evenly - as such it helps to be on the outer edge of them.

Darmac is a single target fight - there is no AoE for us there unless you want to pad meters. If your complaint is that you can't reliably pad meters then I lose a certain amount of sympathy for you.

[Rawrzillasor]

@thete I'm going to be making the switch not so much to pad meters but just for the fact how much better other classes are in every situation vs the ret. Off the top of my head I can't think of one this that ret does damage wise that a boomkin or warlock can't do as good or better. Ret is a big utility as always but for our comp there is 2 other paladins as well for that

Also on the later bosses it really becomes clear that boomkins can destroy pillars and hands on kromog. Adds on thogar. A boat on maidens. Everything in bf. And iron soldiers + massive burn at the end of black hand

[Deleted]

Also on the later bosses it really becomes clear that boomkins can destroy pillars and hands on kromog. Adds on thogar. A boat on maidens. Everything in bf. And iron soldiers + massive burn at the end of black hand

Hands don't want destroying tbh. With the gear levels people have now, you actually have to hold back to prevent them being broken early. Of course, once you get to Blackhand you are a complete liability. Also, if you have a ton of rets, then ofc there's no need to add an extra inexperienced one into the mix if you are happy playing lock/boomkin. However, until Blackhand, rets are strong on all fights even without the use of hands. At least I've found myself to be sufficiently useful.

[Astynax]

We have a roster of 27, 1 holy pally and 0-2 rets in the group for Mythic. Most times one ret is sat unless if both need drops from that boss, but from here on out I'll be sitting on Darmac, Gruul, Ore and Hans & Franz for not needing anything from them. Likely left with 2 hands per boss, especially if I switch and the othe ret is sat.

It's not as much about padding meters but reliable AoE or cleave. Even if I'm not straight spamming on pack, not having an EDS proc hurts when the mount and Darmac are out is a DPS loss compared to being able to multidot the mount, darmac and all the spears as a warlock.

Kromog hands arent an issue either. Biggest one for me is the weak ST boss damage without AW on pull and throughout the fight, to be used on pillars resulting in low boss damage. Outside of our burst the damage is pretty low

[Sandraudiga]

Hands don't want destroying tbh. With the gear levels people have now, you actually have to hold back to prevent them being broken early. Of course, once you get to Blackhand you are a complete liability. Also, if you have a ton of rets, then ofc there's no need to add an extra inexperienced one into the mix if you are happy playing lock/boomkin. However, until Blackhand, rets are strong on all fights even without the use of hands. At least I've found myself to be sufficiently useful.

We are viable, but I wouldn't call us strong in this tier.

Overall pretty disappointed with Ret's usefulness this tier, but I don't think we are nearly bad enough for a reroll.

[Nawtqq]

I'm mainspec holy, but offspec ret for mythic BRF (8/10 atm). I tend to be ret for at least half of it depending on if we need 4 or 5 healers.

I definitely find my dps to be EXTREMELY RNG dependent. Fights like Beastlord I tend to be top 5, sometimes top 3. Kromog I'm put in a spot where my Divine Storm can't hit more than 2 hands, so I don't even look at my logs because they will always be awful. But on stuff like Gruul I find myself near the bottom. On Maidens some pulls I do really well, others I do really bad (RNG). Unfortunately our already RNG set bonuses force us into an RNG based talent, where as a lot of other classes have much less RNG to determine that big of a portion of their dps.

One thing I can't recommend enough to help for closing gaps and movement is speccing into Long Arm of the Law. There are very few situations in BRF where I'd rather use Speed of Light (if any).

Honestly though, the main reason to keep ret's in raids is Hand of Sac and to an extent Hand of Protection, unfortunately.

[Deleted]

It seems to me that we are somewhat slowly getting outscaled by other classes, and back to our usual spot as average dps at best imo.

Personally I've never had another main than my ret, but although i preform on a high level in a average guild some classes are just outright stronger both in dps and utility it seems. Ret has both, but still falls short.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

We lack reliable damage for AoE - like Bladestorm, Chaos Wave, Barrage and so on. For a lot of encounters in BRF those things matter A LOT.
We lack 2-3 target cleave - has been a problem with ret since the beginning. There's a number of encounters in BRF that has phases or entire encounters set in 2-3 target cleave.
We're also among the lower ST specs, meaning we can't fall back on that unlike feral druids who have great ST dps.
We're (again) one of the slower scaling specs- we have no interaction with crit or MS which a lot of other classes/specs have and Haste is simply not scaling well enough atm.


Fixes? (I've said these for a couple years now...)
Make Light's Hammer a soft Bladestorm, Consecration would also work but for some reason Blizzard doesn't want it on rets..
Censure should be buffed (a lot) and Censure Spreading is our 2-3 target cleave base damage. (along with Consecration it would give us tools to cleave and AoE without RNG!!!!!)

Like many others- I'm also on the edge of rerolling for next tier unless they make some good choices for us, I feel like a walking hand of sacrifice at the moment...

[threads]

If the next raid is designed against us like brf and scaling isn't fixed I will probably also reroll. :\

[Hyperfly]

If the next raid is designed against us like brf and scaling isn't fixed I will probably also reroll. :\

Well it looks like its back to Sanctified Wrath...

[Astynax]

Which doesnt help our situation for cleave or AoE issues AT ALL. Will have to see what the boss encounters will be like though or if its just straight single adds and bosses

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

Which doesnt help our situation for cleave or AoE issues AT ALL. Will have to see what the boss encounters will be like though or if its just straight single adds and bosses

I would rather be a ST champion instead of mediocre at everything...

[Bad-apple]

I was switched FROM Warlock to Paladin this tier because my raid group had too many locks and not enough Paladins. Sad story is one of the locks quit, one is inconsistent. I've never experienced a class so rooted in RNG. I've come to find myself praying to RNGesus before every pull. I am enjoying the class, but I don't blame you for wanting to switch to lock. They're getting new demon models and their destro and aff set bonuses aren't looking nearly as awful as Ret's for the next tier.

Anyway, I've personally decided to commit to Paladin at least for the rest of the expansion. Can't be stuffed going through the gearup for a third time in one expansion between tiers. I'd like to go in prepared for HFC. And despite the terrible RNG and DPS fluctuations between pulls, I'm still having fun.

[Hyperfly]

Which doesnt help our situation for cleave or AoE issues AT ALL. Will have to see what the boss encounters will be like though or if its just straight single adds and bosses

Exactly. No more T17/DP for AoE/Cleaves. That would suck. Hopefully the new raid has alot more single target bosses. Otherwise, its back to sitting a on few bosses during progression

[drtrann]

on a few

understatement of the expansion right here.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

A lot of you seriously overvalue the need of AoE... Look at the needs of your raid- if you got 14 aoe strong specs you'll lack ST, you need the balance. Overkilling adds with too much aoe results in slower kills...